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gracie jui-jitsu guy · 09-14-2006, 04:51 PM

In his prime Ken couldn't get taken down by a much bigger and better wrestler than Ortiz: Dan Severn. Remember ufc 6? Now Ortiz, he was just state champion. Dan Severn was an olympic wrestler, among the best of the best. And he was a 260lbs beast. And he still couldn't take down Shamrock. So, could Ken, in his prime, be taken down by Ortiz? I think not. Ortiz would either have to beat him on the feet or he may even end up getting taken down by Ken. Now I'm talking about back in the day when Ken had a super-fast shoot (he was known as a
"shootfighter" back then) and would train like an animal for months just for one fight. He'd bring in sparring partners that would simullate his opponents abilities. That's how he beat the, at the time, heavily favored Severn in that fight. Now back then, Ken was an athlete in his prime with great submission skills. I don't, however think the Ken of back then could have submitted Ortiz. Ortiz trains with Dean Lisner and is very submission savy. Ortiz's stand-up is better than Ken's in his prime but that may just be because back then Ken trained mostly on the ground due to most fights just ending up there early. Who knows what kind of stand-up Ken would have had back then had he spent more time training at it. I believe a fight between the Ken back then and the Ortiz of now would end up with Ken trying to take Tito down and possibly succeeding. If he didn't succeed in the initial scramble Ken would just end up pulling Ortiz into his guard and begin working from there. He wouldn't get any submissions but he would eventually sweep Tito. Remember, back then there were no wieght classes so Ken wouldn't have to dehydrate himself a day before the fight. I've always felt that's affected Ken's performance against Tito in their fights, to a degree. Some guys just don't recover fast enough from the hell they put themseves through to make wieght. Some do and some don't. Now there were also no rounds back then so, after Ken's eventual sweep of Tito, Ken would remain on top and just try to ground and pound his way to a decision, which he would. So that's how I see a match between Ken in his prime vs the Tito Ortiz of now ending up. Of course the Ken of today is a far cry from the Ken of yesteryear. He doesn't train like he used to either because his body is too banged-up to withstand it or because he just doesn't have the heart to do what it takes to be the best anymore. I think today he's just living off his name and looking for a big payday, which the Ortiz fights are giving him. I see this fight ending in the first round, Tito doing what he always does, the shoot followed by the ground and pound and the ref letting it go a little longer this time before finally stopping it.

09-14-2006, 04:51 PM	#16 (permalink)
gracie jui-jitsu guy Reputation: 10-14 Status: Amateur Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 169	Ken In his prime Ken couldn't get taken down by a much bigger and better wrestler than Ortiz: Dan Severn. Remember ufc 6? Now Ortiz, he was just state champion. Dan Severn was an olympic wrestler, among the best of the best. And he was a 260lbs beast. And he still couldn't take down Shamrock. So, could Ken, in his prime, be taken down by Ortiz? I think not. Ortiz would either have to beat him on the feet or he may even end up getting taken down by Ken. Now I'm talking about back in the day when Ken had a super-fast shoot (he was known as a "shootfighter" back then) and would train like an animal for months just for one fight. He'd bring in sparring partners that would simullate his opponents abilities. That's how he beat the, at the time, heavily favored Severn in that fight. Now back then, Ken was an athlete in his prime with great submission skills. I don't, however think the Ken of back then could have submitted Ortiz. Ortiz trains with Dean Lisner and is very submission savy. Ortiz's stand-up is better than Ken's in his prime but that may just be because back then Ken trained mostly on the ground due to most fights just ending up there early. Who knows what kind of stand-up Ken would have had back then had he spent more time training at it. I believe a fight between the Ken back then and the Ortiz of now would end up with Ken trying to take Tito down and possibly succeeding. If he didn't succeed in the initial scramble Ken would just end up pulling Ortiz into his guard and begin working from there. He wouldn't get any submissions but he would eventually sweep Tito. Remember, back then there were no wieght classes so Ken wouldn't have to dehydrate himself a day before the fight. I've always felt that's affected Ken's performance against Tito in their fights, to a degree. Some guys just don't recover fast enough from the hell they put themseves through to make wieght. Some do and some don't. Now there were also no rounds back then so, after Ken's eventual sweep of Tito, Ken would remain on top and just try to ground and pound his way to a decision, which he would. So that's how I see a match between Ken in his prime vs the Tito Ortiz of now ending up. Of course the Ken of today is a far cry from the Ken of yesteryear. He doesn't train like he used to either because his body is too banged-up to withstand it or because he just doesn't have the heart to do what it takes to be the best anymore. I think today he's just living off his name and looking for a big payday, which the Ortiz fights are giving him. I see this fight ending in the first round, Tito doing what he always does, the shoot followed by the ground and pound and the ref letting it go a little longer this time before finally stopping it.