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View Full Version : Is Dwight Freeney really worth $72 mil



eazye76
07-14-2007, 07:27 PM
Colts DE Dwight Freeney signed a contract worth $72 million. I think this is insane on a couple of different levels. First, I think Freeney is the most overrated player in the NFL. He had one year with 16 sacks, since then offensive lines have figured this guy out. He only had 5 1/2 sacks last season, and he's supposed to be a pass rusher. Second Freeney is not the best defensive lineman in the game, he is not even the best at his position! What do you guys think?

Spain215
07-14-2007, 08:37 PM
no hes not worth it

eazye76
07-14-2007, 11:16 PM
The franchise tag would have been the way to go, with that salary he's just asking to be cut in 2-3 years when the colts are in salary cap hell. Come on people!

Afro
07-14-2007, 11:24 PM
wow @ this list

JoeKickAss
07-15-2007, 12:04 AM
I probably would've switched Merriman with Ray Lewis on that list. Lewis still has it, and I refuse to support cheaters.

Afro
07-15-2007, 12:06 AM
I probably would've switched Merriman with Ray Lewis on that list. Lewis still has it, and I refuse to support cheaters.
That cant be the only problem you found with the last, I dont mean to be belligerent but a Best Defender in the NFL poll that doesnt include the Defensive player of the year?

Thaistylist
07-15-2007, 05:35 AM
Miami homer

Afro
07-15-2007, 05:46 AM
Im a Raider fan, so there is no homering.. just fact, Jason Taylor DESERVED to be the damn DPOY I mean for the past 2 years hes won games for the Phins.. just look at the donks game when he forced a fumble, scooped it up, and scored a game winning TD.. Defensive end is the most important position on defense in todays football, Jason Taylor is the best defensive player in football right now.

Omoplata
07-15-2007, 06:42 AM
Freeney would get the money elsewhere, if Indy had it then I dont see the problem. Id say he's the 3rd best end in the game behind Peppers and Taylor. I voted for Champ, that dude is awesome! No love for Peppers or Ed Reed on the list?

error2k5
07-15-2007, 07:20 AM
I'm not sure if you can slap that tag on Taylor just yet. I agree, jason taylor is not to be ignored but champ bailey was in on the race also. A guy who basically shuts off 1 side of the field consistently. Not to take anything away from Jason Taylor, but he does have hard hitting Zach Thomas behind him.

Omoplata
07-15-2007, 05:42 PM
If you took a poll of Defensive Players and coaches in the league on who is the best defensive player in the league Champ Bailey would win it.

eazye76
07-15-2007, 06:27 PM
That cant be the only problem you found with the last, I dont mean to be belligerent but a Best Defender in the NFL poll that doesnt include the Defensive player of the year?
If it makes you better I put that poll together fast, I also forgot about Juluis Peppers.
Champ made the list because of the fact that he cuts off a whole side of the field, but I wanted to put "The Human Ball Magnet" Ed Reed on the list, even though I loathe the Revens.

eazye76
07-15-2007, 06:27 PM
That cant be the only problem you found with the last, I dont mean to be belligerent but a Best Defender in the NFL poll that doesnt include the Defensive player of the year?
If it makes you feel better I put that poll together fast, I also forgot about Juluis Peppers.
Champ made the list because of the fact that he cuts off a whole side of the field, but I wanted to put "The Human Ball Magnet" Ed Reed on the list, even though I loathe the Revens.

SimpleJack
07-15-2007, 06:28 PM
Im a Raider fan, so there is no homering.. just fact, Jason Taylor DESERVED to be the damn DPOY I mean for the past 2 years hes won games for the Phins.. just look at the donks game when he forced a fumble, scooped it up, and scored a game winning TD.. Defensive end is the most important position on defense in todays football, Jason Taylor is the best defensive player in football right now.
Merriman was DPOY hands down, regardless of the suspension.

MLB is the most important position in football. Without a good MLB, DE's aren't afforded the opportunity to move about freely and make plays.

eazye76
07-15-2007, 06:37 PM
As good as Taylor is I don't feel too bad about leaving him off the list, seeing as how guys like Juluis Peppers, Asante' Samuel, and Tommy Harris didn't make it. Shawn Merriman is about the best pass rusher in the game, but he did get popped for 'roids, so I think Champ is the best. He changes games and he's clean - plus he's been doing it for a long time.

eazye76
07-15-2007, 06:41 PM
[QUOTE=DonFrye]Merriman was DPOY hands down, regardless of the suspension.

I don't have a huge problem with him not getting DPOY because of the roids, but he was the best defender last year. The fact that he had so many sacks is even more impressive because he did it in 12 games, not 16.

Afro
07-15-2007, 06:57 PM
Merriman was DPOY hands down, regardless of the suspension.

MLB is the most important position in football. Without a good MLB, DE's aren't afforded the opportunity to move about freely and make plays.
A) Merriman isnt a MLB

B) DE is more important in todays game then MLB is

C) You need a good pass rush in todays game period! DEs stop the run, and there your most important pass rushers

thus why Shawn Merriman, Jason Taylor, and Julius Peppers are the most important players on defense

bchan1430
07-16-2007, 05:36 AM
Without a good MLB, DE's aren't afforded the opportunity to move about freely and make plays.

Without a good D-line, MLB's aren't afforded the opportunity to move about freely and make plays. Part of the reason that Baltimore moved Suggs to DE and went 4-3 base was to give Ray Lewis a chance to make more plays.

I don't know if a good pass rush is the most important part of a defense, but it can really make up for a poor secondary.

However, some DE's are focused too much on the pass rush, get downfield really quickly and get burned by the draw or a regular run play. Only a few elite DE's can recover ground quick enough (i.e. Peppers/Taylor etc.)

Afro
07-16-2007, 05:39 AM
Without a good D-line, MLB's aren't afforded the opportunity to move about freely and make plays. Part of the reason that Baltimore moved Suggs to DE and went 4-3 base was to give Ray Lewis a chance to make more plays.

I don't know if a good pass rush is the most important part of a defense, but it can really make up for a poor secondary.

However, some DE's are focused too much on the pass rush, get downfield really quickly and get burned by the draw or a regular run play. Only a few elite DE's can recover ground quick enough (i.e. Peppers/Taylor etc.)
And there are only a handfull of DEs that can pass rush and stop the run, and also have very good cutbacks.. the bengals had a bad run D for years because there DEs had awful cutbacks.. there ankles simply sucked and that team had good LBs but it didnt matter.. first line of defense is the most important line of defense, and the most important position on the DL is the defensive end.. all my opinion of course.

Kimuras"R"Us
07-16-2007, 06:04 AM
To get back to the original question, no he's not worth that much at all. Besides his sack production declining you forgot teams have realized you can just run the ball right at him without problem.

I think your arguments are strong Afro, but you gotta think that in the 3-4 the DE is not as important.

CM PO
07-16-2007, 12:56 PM
he cant stop the run his sacks keep going down. 30 mil up front smh. But if u wanna talk best Defensive Player in football

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/peter_king/01/23/mmqb.championship/p1_taylor.jpg

eazye76
07-16-2007, 06:34 PM
Sean Taylor is nasty, but come, he's not even the best Saftey in the league. That would be Mr. Reed in Baltimore. He might be the best saftey in the NFC East - even though Philly fans would argue Brian Dawkins.

Omoplata
07-16-2007, 08:48 PM
Sean Taylor is nasty, but come, he's not even the best Saftey in the league. That would be Mr. Reed in Baltimore. He might be the best saftey in the NFC East - even though Philly fans would argue Brian Dawkins.

I hate the Cowboys but what about Roy Williams? Much props to the guy who broke Terrell Owens leg.

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z276/dal31roy/Roy_Williams.gif

eazye76
07-16-2007, 09:27 PM
[QUOTE=Omoplata]I hate the Cowboys but what about Roy Williams? Much props to the guy who broke Terrell Owens leg.

LOL. Roy is great in the box, tackling, blitzing, etc..., but he's a little weak in pass coverage

Omoplata
07-16-2007, 09:34 PM
LOL. Roy is great in the box, tackling, blitzing, etc..., but he's a little weak in pass coverage

True but you can say the same for Sean Taylor. I'm a big fan of both players (player not the team... I HATE THE COWBOYS!!!) Best Saftey in the league is Ed Reed. Best Def player in the league is Champ Bailey. When you have a shut down corner with his ability you open up what you can do with the biltz.

As far as Urlacher he's not much with out the DT's in front of him. No Tank Johnson and Tommy Harris near the end of last season you could really see him struggle.

The best thing you can do for your defense is have 2 monsters in the middle of your line, you open up your linebackers and safteys to make plays.

CEVANS
07-16-2007, 09:54 PM
is he worth the money well no not really not that much but the last thing the colts need is to lose a star at D and he does have games that he just flat out runs pass the o line look at what he does when they play baltmore

Afro
07-16-2007, 10:00 PM
True but you can say the same for Sean Taylor. I'm a big fan of both players (player not the team... I HATE THE COWBOYS!!!) Best Saftey in the league is Ed Reed. Best Def player in the league is Champ Bailey. When you have a shut down corner with his ability you open up what you can do with the biltz.

As far as Urlacher he's not much with out the DT's in front of him. No Tank Johnson and Tommy Harris near the end of last season you could really see him struggle.

The best thing you can do for your defense is have 2 monsters in the middle of your line, you open up your linebackers and safteys to make plays.
Champ is the best CB in the league, but in todays NFL the CB position is not that important just look at Charles Woodson. If you have a good pass rush then you force a lot of bad throws, and your CBs will make a lot of plays.. and you can almost dictate what the offense is going to do. Thus why its been how long since a CB was taken high? yet look at how many Dlinemen are taken in the Top 10 every year.

My money is on either Julius Peppers or Jason Taylor as the best player in the NFL.

bchan1430
07-16-2007, 10:01 PM
as far as safeties.... here are a few excerpts from a KC Joyner ESPN Article where he provides some metrics

Overrated safeties

"Ed Reed
Reed's metrics were terrible last year. His 14.9 combined YPA was the fifth-worst in the league among coverage safeties. He gave up the third-highest number of total yards. He had the fourth-most bomb passes thrown his way and the third-worst YPA at that depth level.

I know there are those who will say that the game broadcast tapes don't show everything that Reed does and that these numbers are anomalies, but let me throw this out in my defense. Carson Palmer said that Reed often doesn't play his coverage and thinks he knows what's coming. Palmer also commented that Reed can get frustrated when the offense is getting some things going and will try to come up and make a play and lose his responsibilities because of it. Palmer was able to exploit Reed's impatience in Week 13, when he connected on a flea-flicker pass to T.J. Houshmandzadeh for a 40-yard touchdown.

The metrics show that Palmer isn't the only quarterback who knows Reed's coverage weaknesses. That is why I believe Reed is the most overrated safety in the league."

"Sean Taylor
Taylor made the Pro Bowl as an injury replacement, but the metrics make it clear he didn't earn the spot. He ranked 20th in both deep assist YPA and deep assist success percentage. He did even worse when in direct coverage, as his 10.7 YPA in those situations was the seventh worst in the NFL last year. He also gave up the second-most total yards of any coverage safety. Taylor did do a lot more to support the run last year than he did in years past, but even taking that into account, he really wasn't a Pro Bowl-level coverage safety last year"

It's always hard to determine a best, but a few safeties who play pretty big are dawkins and sanders. Also, look out for Jimmy Williams of the Falcons making the move to free safety, he has the size, speed, and ball skills to be a great FS.

Afro
07-16-2007, 10:03 PM
as far as safeties.... here are a few excerpts from a KC Joyner ESPN Article where he provides some metrics

Overrated safeties

"Ed Reed
Reed's metrics were terrible last year. His 14.9 combined YPA was the fifth-worst in the league among coverage safeties. He gave up the third-highest number of total yards. He had the fourth-most bomb passes thrown his way and the third-worst YPA at that depth level.

I know there are those who will say that the game broadcast tapes don't show everything that Reed does and that these numbers are anomalies, but let me throw this out in my defense. Carson Palmer said that Reed often doesn't play his coverage and thinks he knows what's coming. Palmer also commented that Reed can get frustrated when the offense is getting some things going and will try to come up and make a play and lose his responsibilities because of it. Palmer was able to exploit Reed's impatience in Week 13, when he connected on a flea-flicker pass to T.J. Houshmandzadeh for a 40-yard touchdown.

The metrics show that Palmer isn't the only quarterback who knows Reed's coverage weaknesses. That is why I believe Reed is the most overrated safety in the league."

"Sean Taylor
Taylor made the Pro Bowl as an injury replacement, but the metrics make it clear he didn't earn the spot. He ranked 20th in both deep assist YPA and deep assist success percentage. He did even worse when in direct coverage, as his 10.7 YPA in those situations was the seventh worst in the NFL last year. He also gave up the second-most total yards of any coverage safety. Taylor did do a lot more to support the run last year than he did in years past, but even taking that into account, he really wasn't a Pro Bowl-level coverage safety last year"

It's always hard to determine a best, but a few safeties who play pretty big are dawkins and sanders. Also, look out for Jimmy Williams of the Falcons making the move to free safety, he has the size, speed, and ball skills to be a great FS.
I dunno how credible that article is if there just basing safeties off of there metrics

bchan1430
07-16-2007, 10:09 PM
=) it was just food for thought I was throwing out there. KC Joyner is pretty well respected and almost all of his articles are based on metrics, which is why he is known as the "Football Scientist".

It probably doesn't tell the whole story; however, numbers don't lie and I'm sure many people would agree that Ed Reed does get overagressive with the ball at times.

Afro
07-16-2007, 10:11 PM
=) it was just food for thought I was throwing out there. KC Joyner is pretty well respected and almost all of his articles are based on metrics, which is why he is known as the "Football Scientist".

It probably doesn't tell the whole story; however, numbers don't lie and I'm sure many people would agree that Ed Reed does get overagressive with the ball at times.
Oh Ed Reed definently gets overagressive with the ball, plenty of times.. only Bob Sanders among the elites could be considered the smartest Safety on the field, thats why hes called the doctor cuz no one diagnosis plays like he does.. but he isnt even half the playmaker or gamechanger that Ed Reed is.. hes just the quarterback on the field, where-as Ed Reed is the guy thats winning you football games and he still provides more then solid play vs the pass and run so I say he is the best safety in the NFL still.

eazye76
07-16-2007, 10:16 PM
is he worth the money well no not really not that much but the last thing the colts need is to lose a star at D and he does have games that he just flat out runs pass the o line look at what he does when they play baltmore
This offseason the Colts have lost a starting LB and CB, and given Freeney 72 mil. I would have held on to Cato June and Nick Harper, done something with Freeney, and paid Bob Sanders.
Damn I forgot all about Bob Sanders, he might be the best Saftey in the league. When he got hurt the colts couldn't stop the run, he comes back and the Colts D gets good, and they win the superbowl.

Omoplata
07-17-2007, 12:16 AM
Champ is the best CB in the league, but in todays NFL the CB position is not that important just look at Charles Woodson. If you have a good pass rush then you force a lot of bad throws, and your CBs will make a lot of plays.. and you can almost dictate what the offense is going to do. Thus why its been how long since a CB was taken high? yet look at how many Dlinemen are taken in the Top 10 every year.

My money is on either Julius Peppers or Jason Taylor as the best player in the NFL.

I'd also make a case for Tommy Harris while we're on the subject of D Linemen. If you have 1 or 2 monsters in the middle it helps you're line backers, safteys and also helps free up one on ones for your defensive end.

I think the shut down corner is just as important as its ever been in the league.

mcdev88
07-17-2007, 01:46 AM
freeney is my fav defensive player and i would pay a lot of money for him.

that being said the best defensive player in the league i peppers. with jason talyor in a close 2nd. urlacher is amazing but if he didnt have adawale or tommy harris he wouldnt have those numbers.

after this year nate clemets is going to be up there with champ. GO 49ers!!!

error2k5
07-17-2007, 01:51 AM
I agree, a shut down corner like bailey helps out your defense a lot and to give all the credit to the pass rush is a bit bias. It goes hand in hand. They help eachother. Yes, a good pass rush will help the corners and force bad throws but a good shut down corner like bailey will not only cause bad throws, it will force the QB to take more time, thus giving the linemen the sack.

He will have to wait longer to get the ball out of his hand and find the open man which assists the pass rush. If anything the pass rush is nothing without the corners because the defensive line will NEVER stop the QB every time.

Afro
07-17-2007, 01:59 AM
I agree, a shut down corner like bailey helps out your defense a lot and to give all the credit to the pass rush is a bit bias. It goes hand in hand. They help eachother. Yes, a good pass rush will help the corners and force bad throws but a good shut down corner like bailey will not only cause bad throws, it will force the QB to take more time, thus giving the linemen the sack.

He will have to wait longer to get the ball out of his hand and find the open man which assists the pass rush. If anything the pass rush is nothing without the corners because the defensive line will NEVER stop the QB every time.
Lol, whos giving all the credit to the pass rush? its just a known fact that the pass rush is vital in the NFL I mean thats all that any NFL analyst has been talking about for the past couple of years, thus why CBs are taken further down the draft charts each year and dont give me crap about how there havent been any promising CB prospects in the draft.. cuz there have been

and its a BS statement to say that the pass rush is nothing without the corners, each player aids the other.. but most defensive schemes center around a strong pass rush rather then favoring shut down corners, or playing a man scheme.

and you dont have to stop the QB to make a difference, forcing a bad pass is important too.. either way you look at it.. the defensive line is the most important line of defense because its the first line of defense. You can have Champ Bailey and Chris McCallister at each end but if you dont have a pass rush what good are you doing them? they would have to defend perfect passes all day long. Just ask Charles Woodson what thats like.

SimpleJack
07-17-2007, 02:58 AM
A) Merriman isnt a MLB

B) DE is more important in todays game then MLB is

C) You need a good pass rush in todays game period! DEs stop the run, and there your most important pass rushers

thus why Shawn Merriman, Jason Taylor, and Julius Peppers are the most important players on defense
A. Never said Merriman was a MLB.

B. No way is DE even close to as important as a MLB in today's football. If it weren't for the MLB diagnosing plays and covering the DE and DT's asses, they wouldn't be able to get the penetration they do. As a matter of fact, Taylor and Peppers wouldn't have nearly the success they have without the likes of Zach Thomas and Dan Morgan. Without their coverage, no one gets a sack.

C. Did you really say DE's stop the run????? Have you ever played football?? What is this Nebraska? The DT's are the run stoppers. PERIOD. Most plays go through the A and B gaps, which the tackles and MLB have to cover, especially when there is a somewhat decent DE rushing the passer. Safeties such as Ed Reed will fill those gaps in the 3-4 when the MLB is forced to be the other rusher.

Omoplata
07-17-2007, 06:13 AM
Honestly it boils down to you’re personnel and scheme. If you have a Champ Bailey you can risk using complex blitzes with LBs Safteys and Linemen cause you have him back there to save your a$$. If you have a monster @ end you can play a basic zone scheme and have him wreak havoc in the backfield and forcing the QB to throw into coverage, take a sack and or fumble the ball. I say Champ is the best cause that guy is a freak of nature and has a better chance at the ball then the WR, probably the only cover corner in the game who I can say that about. He’s also the only cover corner that comes to mind that changes an offenses plans and closes off an entire side of a field. No one has done that since Dieon Sanders.

eazye76
07-17-2007, 05:59 PM
Yeah, It's all about the coaches/scheme. Merriman was the sack leader last year, and in my opinion the DPOY. One of the reasons he was so productive was the scheme of his defensive coordinator, Wade Phillips, who is in Dallas now as head coach. Under Phillips, LB DeMarcus Ware will be a beast, he's basiclly a DE playing linebacker, and unlike Parcells, Phillips knows how to Blitz. Beware of Ware - sorry, that was sort of lame.

Afro
07-17-2007, 06:08 PM
Yeah, It's all about the coaches/scheme. Merriman was the sack leader last year, and in my opinion the DPOY. One of the reasons he was so productive was the scheme of his defensive coordinator, Wade Phillips, who is in Dallas now as head coach. Under Phillips, LB DeMarcus Ware will be a beast, he's basiclly a DE playing linebacker, and unlike Parcells, Phillips knows how to Blitz. Beware of Ware - sorry, that was sort of lame.
Demarcus Ware is a converted DE and a physical specimen, I think he will be better then Merriman cuz he can drop back in coverage better then Merriman can we'll see though

Manny Lawson will likely surpass both of them in the near future though, that guy is a stud.

eazye76
07-17-2007, 08:14 PM
Demarcus Ware is a converted DE and a physical specimen, I think he will be better then Merriman cuz he can drop back in coverage better then Merriman can we'll see though

Manny Lawson will likely surpass both of them in the near future though, that guy is a stud.

Bill Parcells didn't use him like he should have. Ware can get to the QB from the LB or DE position. He has massive untapped potential. Tony Romo, Donovan Mcnabb, and Jason Campbell better be ready.

Afro
07-17-2007, 08:19 PM
Bill Parcells didn't use him like he should have. Ware can get to the QB from the LB or DE position. He has massive untapped potential. Tony Romo, Donovan Mcnabb, and Jason Campbell better be ready.
Ware I think is another DT mould, probably not as good as Thomas was but I think his versitility at OLB is similar cuz he can drop back into coverage, he can be a 2 point DE, or even a 3 point DE just like DT could.. hes a special talent. I think Merriman gets all the media hype because of how much more exciting he is.. hes a damn good player dont get me wrong, but the guys a blitzer.. hes solid vs the run but overall hes a blitzer.. and the media is tryna mold him into another LT.. I dont see it. I thought Jason Taylor deserved the DPOY last year cuz Jason Taylor did more vs the run then Merriman did, he had just as many sacks, FFs, etc plus he won games for the phins.

error2k5
07-18-2007, 12:31 AM
as good as merriman is he is notorious for having tendencies to dissapear in games. He was practically a non factor in the patriots game.

SimpleJack
07-18-2007, 07:11 AM
Which is what happens when Bill Bellichick (Genius) develops a game plan against you.

eazye76
07-18-2007, 04:14 PM
as good as merriman is he is notorious for having tendencies to dissapear in games. He was practically a non factor in the patriots game.
In defense of Meriman, him and Shaun Phillips were beat up the whole game. In fact they were hardly ever on the field at the same time. The Pats had too much expirence and were a lot more physical. I still think SD was the better team last year, but that doesn't matter when you play Bellichick in the playoffs.

error2k5
07-18-2007, 06:43 PM
The patriots were just 1 example, shawne merriman struggles against teams with good blocking schemes. He has tendencies to have 3-4 sacks 1 game and 0 sacks the next. His bread and butter is pass rushing and when he can't produce that he isn't as much of a weapon because he isn't keen on just plain tackling outside of the QB.

eazye76
07-18-2007, 08:41 PM
The patriots were just 1 example, shawne merriman struggles against teams with good blocking schemes. He has tendencies to have 3-4 sacks 1 game and 0 sacks the next. His bread and butter is pass rushing and when he can't produce that he isn't as much of a weapon because he isn't keen on just plain tackling outside of the QB.
Not making excuses for Merriman, but he does have to go up against above average offensive lines at least 4 times a year in that division w/Kansas City and Denver. I think he'll step it up a liitle this year, at least he should now that Donnie Edwards isn't in the middle doing the dirty work.
Side note - Dwight Freeney just got the biggest Def contract in the NFL, and nobody has voted for him in the poll yet.

Omoplata
07-18-2007, 08:58 PM
Side note - Dwight Freeney just got the biggest Def contract in the NFL, and nobody has voted for him in the poll yet.

Dosent surprise me... I dont think many people think he's the best at his position.

Urlacher has the most votes but I dont think he's anything without Lance Briggs, Tank Johnson and Tommy Harris. When Johnson and Harris were out he really struggled, and Briggs is a monster too.

eazye76
07-18-2007, 09:08 PM
The poll doesn't suprise me either. I don't understand what the deal is with Freeney though. All my freinds, and everybody I talk to on the net think he's overrated, but sportswriters and ESPN people act like he's the greatest athlete ever.

Omoplata
07-18-2007, 09:56 PM
I dont fault the Colts for tossing the money at him, with their defense they need all they help they can get. He is a guy who changes the offenses plans... he can be a major force and if you have the chance to keep a guy like him on your team you should take it.

eazye76
07-18-2007, 10:17 PM
Your right, he does always draw the double team, but I would have paid Bob Sanders.

error2k5
07-18-2007, 11:19 PM
Your right, he does always draw the double team, but I would have paid Bob Sanders.

I was shocked by how much of a difference bob sanders really made. I really underestimated that defense. Dwight Freeny works in the colts defensive scheme. On any other defense he would be looked at as undersized for a DE. He comes around that corner leaving openings and causing havoc within that entire offensive line though.

bchan1430
07-19-2007, 02:59 AM
The patriots were just 1 example, shawne merriman struggles against teams with good blocking schemes. He has tendencies to have 3-4 sacks 1 game and 0 sacks the next. His bread and butter is pass rushing and when he can't produce that he isn't as much of a weapon because he isn't keen on just plain tackling outside of the QB.

in 06, merriman posted at least a partial sack in all of his games played except 3 of them. two of the games were against kc, a team known for running the ball, throwing screens, and quick-passes, thus less opportunity to make sacks. In these games he posted an 8 tackle and 1 deflection game, and a 6 tackle game. against tennessee, his other 0 sack game, he had 1 pick and 2 pass deflections.

Even when he is not actually making the play, Merriman draws a lot of attention and makes his team better. He is a big reason Shaun Philips had a breakout season. He certainly is not limited to pass rushing, but Wade Phillips found that having him pass rush in the 3-4 scheme was the best way to utilize this talent and athleticism.

That is the reason merriman is often regarded as one of the top5 defensive players in the league.

error2k5
07-19-2007, 03:42 AM
in 06, merriman posted at least a partial sack in all of his games played except 3 of them. two of the games were against kc, a team known for running the ball, throwing screens, and quick-passes, thus less opportunity to make sacks. In these games he posted an 8 tackle and 1 deflection game, and a 6 tackle game. against tennessee, his other 0 sack game, he had 1 pick and 2 pass deflections.

Even when he is not actually making the play, Merriman draws a lot of attention and makes his team better. He is a big reason Shaun Philips had a breakout season. He certainly is not limited to pass rushing, but Wade Phillips found that having him pass rush in the 3-4 scheme was the best way to utilize this talent and athleticism.

That is the reason merriman is often regarded as one of the top5 defensive players in the league.

For a LB the amount of tackles he had at the end of the year isn't impressive. Like I said, he's a pass rusher, and once you put a good blocking scheme on him he isn't as dangerous as he's made out to be. In the TN game you left out that he had 0 tackles to go along with 0 sacks. Granted he did get 1 interception.

The overall score was 40-7 so interpret that as you wish. Merrimann never had back to back games where he loaded up on sacks. It was always a burst, then nothing. I'm not saying he isn't a monster on defense, i'm just saying he can be stopped and he has tendencies to fade away.

bchan1430
07-19-2007, 09:36 AM
He actually had one tackle that game. haha

Merriman is essentially playing as a DE, a position that usually doesn't rack up the most tackles. (Jason Taylor had 60 in 06 vs. Merriman's 62, and Taylor is often used in zone-exchange type plays and often drops back like a linebacker.) It's all relative. If Merriman was playing in the middle, he would have at least 100 tackles per season.

just because there isnt a 3 in the sack column every game doesn't mean he disappears in certain games. Teams have to double-team and sometimes triple-team him, which opens up lanes for other defenders. Every coordinator and offensive player is well aware of Merriman when he is on the field.

SimpleJack
07-19-2007, 03:42 PM
I agree. Drawing a double team and allowing other players to record tackles for losses and such is not disappearing. However, like I said, Brady is smart and savvy in the pocket, Bellichick is a genius and the Chargers were still pretty green at that point.

Point is, Freeney needed his money and the Colts have lost WAY too many great defenders in the last 5 years (Peterson, Washington, etc.) to let him walk. I say good job to the colts for actually retaining someone. They usually don't.

Meanwhile, has anyone taken the time to look at what the Broncos are doing out West with that defense???? Adding Bly with Bailey, Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder, Sam Adams, Jimmy Kennedy. Could definitely be an exciting year in the Mile High.

I think they have done as much on defense as New England has on offense. The AFC is shaping up very nicely.

eazye76
07-19-2007, 03:50 PM
With what Den, NE, and SD have got, I really don't think the NFC should be getting their hopes up too high.

SimpleJack
07-19-2007, 07:51 PM
I agree. With Carolina, Green Bay, and Atlanta on the downslide, I can't imagine them having too much luck.

bchan1430
07-20-2007, 01:17 AM
I agree. With Carolina, Green Bay, and Atlanta on the downslide, I can't imagine them having too much luck.

I don't know why you chose those teams as examples.., but you could make the argument that Carolina, Green Bay, and Atlanta are actually on the upswing.

Beason makes Carolina a lot more sound at the linebacker position; bolstering an already nasty defense.

Green Bay has a lot of young talent. Justin Harrell provides much needed help in the trenches, hopefully taking up blockers to free up AJ Hawk. Brandon Jackson is a very solid running back, although he probably won't make it as a full time starter.

Atlanta has improved greatly in the secondary. The addition of Chris Houston to play alongside DeAngelo Hall allows Jimmy Williams the opportunity to move to FS. If all goes as planned, Atlanta could have one of the best secondaries in the league, although their depth is suspect. On the offensive side of the ball, outside of the huge Vick question mark, they are looking good. Rookie Laurent Robinson has big play potential from the WR spot, Jerious Norwood should get more carries this season because Warrick Dunn is getting older. There's no doubt that Petrino will find a way to utilize all the talent on the roster.

**back on track**
There are still some very good contenders in Chicago and New Orleans. Chicago is one of the best defensive teams, while the Saints are stacked on offense, especially with the addition of Eric Johnson. Don't rule out the NFC just yet. =T

error2k5
07-20-2007, 04:12 AM
I'm not sure if atlanta is exactly on the upswing...I was anxious to see vick in the new system with a good receiver in joe horn but now i'm not sure if it will happen. I hope Vick is innocent but if he's convicted and has to do some time, get a suspension, and more than likely released from the falcons i'm not sure about their future. I guess culpepper is still on the market if worst comes to worst. I don't know if that's saying much because we really don't know if daunte is back to his old self yet.

eazye76
07-20-2007, 04:24 PM
I don't know why you chose those teams as examples.., but you could make the argument that Carolina, Green Bay, and Atlanta are actually on the upswing.



Don's right, just b/c these teams are on the upswing doesn't mean any of them are going to make the playoffs, or even be any good.
Carolina - might make the playoffs, but if anything they are not as good as they have been in years past - Delhomme throws too many interceptions, and N.O. is better.
Green Bay - They are in a super weak division so they might win 8 games. No running back or wide out, and when was the last time they drafted offense in the first round? Oh yeah, Aaron Rogers.
Atlanta - At some point Vick will be suspended - then they've got Joey Harrington. And don't even get me started on the bears.

MichaelK
07-27-2007, 11:42 PM
No, please start on the Bears. I'd love to hear what you have to say. Devin Hester was the only reason they were even in the playoffs, right?

eazye76
07-28-2007, 01:06 AM
No, please start on the Bears. I'd love to hear what you have to say. Devin Hester was the only reason they were even in the playoffs, right?
Can't tell if your being sarcastic or not, I'm going to assume you are. Hester was not the reason they got to the playoffs, the reason they made the playoffs was the fact that they are in a horrible division, they are in the easier conference, and their out of conference schedule was a freakin' joke, they played one really good team, AND LOST(New England).
Their QB sucks - really bad.
They also lost Ron Rivera, which is going to hurt that defense.
They had a really good running back(Thomas Jones), but they traded him, and are stuck with lazy ass Cedrick Benson.
D-line - Tank is gone, Tommy Harris is coming off a season ending injury, Alex Brown wants to be traded, and I can't remember who the other DE is right now, but he NEEDS Alex Brown on the other side.
Linebackers look good - Urlacher's, good, and they signed Briggs.
DB's look real good, as long as they don't try to put Hester on offense.



Don't waste your time killing my Titans, I realize they are going to suck, and the Bears are going to be a lot better. I'm a very realistic sports fan.

JPeezy
07-28-2007, 02:30 AM
Freeney is an undersized rush end... He is a total 1 trick pony. There is a reason that Indy ranks last vs the run. This guy is a total liability vs the run, and he only had 6 sacks last year.

He's not the best DE or defensive player in football. Maybe the best pass rusher, but that's it!