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Hypergit
07-22-2007, 06:55 AM
...that is all.

Afro
07-22-2007, 06:56 AM
welcome back

SimpleJack
07-22-2007, 08:18 AM
I think Calzaghe will win, probably not kill him, but outclass him. Either way, Calzaghe is in a no-win situation. If he wins, Bernard is over the hill. If he loses, Bernard was always too great for him. Bad fight, but I want to see it.

Salvy_Mic
07-22-2007, 11:02 AM
That should be the next fight Calzaghe takes, if he gets by Mikkel Kessler of course in November....*daydreams about Calzaghe/Kessler fight*. Anyway, Calzaghe is a totally different beast from Wright, about the only thing they have in common is the fact that they're middle-aged southpaws. Calzaghe's foot and handspeed should cause some significant problems for Hopkins. Not to say that Hopkins is too old, because he is still the master, and if anyone can gameplan for Calzaghe, its definitely Hopkins. However, will Hopkins simply have the speed to catch up is the question. With Jermain Taylor moving up to 168 after the Pavlik fight, will Calzaghe want to take on him, in one more defence of his 168 lb. crown, or will he move up and attempt to win another lineal championship in a second division. I think Oscar de la Hoya might have a little more money to throw at Calzaghe than Lou DiBella will, plus, I don't think Taylor's people are willing to fight any more slick southpaws any time soon.

So remember:
-Calzaghe only has options if he beats Kessler, which is NOT a sure thing.
-Only one option is guaranteed (Hopkins). Should Taylor lose his title to Pavlik, he loses a lot of his marketability and there won't be much money or reason to fight.
-Calzaghe/Taylor is only important when they are both the lineal champions at their respective weights, with Taylor coming up, while Calzaghe/Hopkins is only important when both are lineal champions at their respective weights with Calzaghe coming up.
-If Kessler beats Calzaghe, chances are he won't get fights with Taylor or Hopkins. Too dangerous.

Atnan
07-22-2007, 11:39 AM
ive said it in other threads here....cal is way too fucking fast for stinky/bhop...

Punk Ass
07-22-2007, 11:56 AM
Calzaghi aint beating B Hop. B Hop knows how to deal with speed, and he will make the fight very ugly. Funny how your opinions change from one fight. Remember, styles make fights and Winky was just a bad style match up for anyone to look good.

Remember when Hopkins looked like he was 25 a couple months ago?

SimpleJack
07-22-2007, 01:19 PM
Calzaghe has a tendency to make good fighters look bad also.....really bad......

SimpleJack
07-22-2007, 01:23 PM
And by the way, who has Hopkins fought with Calzaghe-like hand speed????? No one that I can think of......RJJ? He lost that one....

Atnan
07-22-2007, 01:24 PM
Calzaghe has a tendency to make good fighters look bad also.....really bad......
wasnt jeff lacy the next upcomming of tyson?????

SimpleJack
07-22-2007, 01:45 PM
Well, he was highly regarded, but untested. People jumped off that bandwagon faster than they did the Michael Grant bandwagon.

Atnan
07-22-2007, 01:49 PM
Well, he was highly regarded, but untested. People jumped off that bandwagon faster than they did the Michael Grant bandwagon.
lol.....i swear i couldnt believe all the treads people were making of how lacy is gonna knock joe cal with ease...too fucking funni

Thaistylist
07-22-2007, 02:12 PM
Well, he was highly regarded, but untested. People jumped off that bandwagon faster than they did the Michael Grant bandwagon.


Man, I rode that bandwagon right until I got unceremonisly thrown off by way of first round KO.

bradlee180
07-22-2007, 02:44 PM
Years ago, Calzaghe delivered Knock-Outs, but his hands have been so damaged that he just slaps now. If it happens, Calzaghe vs Hopkins will be another crap-fight 12 rd decision which they'll try to sell as a $50 PPV.

Man, I loved watching Hopkins at his best(1996/2000), but his fights now are just miserable spectacles (which I don't pay for!). Hopkins' has forgotten: It's NOT just about winning the fight, it's also about how you do it so that the fans will be satisfied, get their moneys' worth, and are willing to pay to see you again.

Afro
07-22-2007, 07:11 PM
Years ago, Calzaghe delivered Knock-Outs, but his hands have been so damaged that he just slaps now. If it happens, Calzaghe vs Hopkins will be another crap-fight 12 rd decision which they'll try to sell as a $50 PPV.

Man, I loved watching Hopkins at his best(1996/2000), but his fights now are just miserable spectacles (which I don't pay for!). Hopkins' has forgotten: It's NOT just about winning the fight, it's also about how you do it so that the fans will be satisfied, get their moneys' worth, and are willing to pay to see you again.
Im pretty damn sure Hopkins fans got there moneys worth vs Tarver! that was a very exciting fight, and Hopkins/Winky was only half boring

bradlee180
07-22-2007, 07:41 PM
I'm a fan of combat-sports, but some fight-fans are loyal to boxing ONLY saying MMA is unskilled street-brawlers, etc.. A favorite argument by boxing fans is that MMA fights looks homoerotic with 2 sweaty guys hugging each other on the mat. What about all the hugging in Hopkins/Wright last night, Ricky Hatton against anybody, Jermaine Taylor against anybody, John Ruiz, Ali/Frazier 2 ?!! When Jim Jeffries would clinch Jack Johnson, Johnson would respond by saying, "Stop lovin' me so, Mr. Jeff!"

leelandk
07-22-2007, 11:05 PM
Calzaghe brings nothing to the table that Hopkins hasn't seen before. Don't be confusing his speed with PBF or RJJ. Hopkins is too crafty and skilled for Calzaghe. Speed kills in boxing, until you run into a fighter who nullifies everything you do. Ask Zab or Shane how much their handspeed helped when they ran into a fighter more skilled than themselves. No doubt Calzaghe is good and looked sensational against Jeff Lacy. Problem is, Bernard Hopkins is not Jeff Lacy.

Atnan
07-23-2007, 01:02 AM
Calzaghe brings nothing to the table that Hopkins hasn't seen before. Don't be confusing his speed with PBF or RJJ. Hopkins is too crafty and skilled for Calzaghe. Speed kills in boxing, until you run into a fighter who nullifies everything you do. Ask Zab or Shane how much their handspeed helped when they ran into a fighter more skilled than themselves. No doubt Calzaghe is good and looked sensational against Jeff Lacy. Problem is, Bernard Hopkins is not Jeff Lacy.

no my friend...problem is winky stinky or tarver is not joe calzag.....calzag is undefeated for a reason- you make it seem like all he has is speed...i wont even waste my time with you! joe calzag brings more to the table then anyone hopkins faced ( besides rjj at the time)

please re-read carefully before trying to reply



btw Fedor is king

Punk Ass
07-23-2007, 08:13 AM
And by the way, who has Hopkins fought with Calzaghe-like hand speed????? No one that I can think of......RJJ? He lost that one....

Oscar De La Hoya (much faster than Calzaghi,) Antwun Echols (just as fast,) RJJ, no need to say anymore.

BTW, Calzaghi is no where near as fast as RJJ.

Punk Ass
07-23-2007, 08:19 AM
no my friend...problem is winky stinky or tarver is not joe calzag.....calzag is undefeated for a reason- you make it seem like all he has is speed...i wont even waste my time with you! joe calzag brings more to the table then anyone hopkins faced ( besides rjj at the time)

please re-read carefully before trying to reply



btw Fedor is king

Yeh he is undefeated for a reason. There just isn't any good fighters in the SMW division. Everyone thought Jeff Lacy would stir it up a bit, but, we were wrong.

IF RJJ would have never left that division, you would have never heared of Calzaghi.

JimmyMoore
07-23-2007, 01:32 PM
Calzaghi is no where near as fast as RJJ.

Jesus, thank you for that. It was getting a bit ridiculous comparing Calzaghe's speed to Jones'.
I've got Hopkins all day. I know how good Cal looked against Lacy, but I shouldnt have to break down the differences between Lacy and Hopkins. The only similarities between them is that they are black and American. I might be alone on this, but I still dont think Calzaghe is in Hopkins' league. I mean just compare past opponents. Wright, Tarver, de la Hoya, Joppy, Trinidad compared to WHO?! Jeff Lacy?! Also, people tend to forget that before that Lacy fight, Cal got a couple pretty generous decisions to keep him undefeated and has tasted the cavas several times against lesser opponents. How many times has Bernard been down? I say Bhop hands Calzaghe his ass for 12 rounds.

Dork8503
07-23-2007, 01:56 PM
Anyone who compairs RJJ an Calzaghe should be slapped in their face. At this fallen age i believe Roy has still more speed.

Any who i believe Hopkins would shut him down and have his way with him. I don't see a tko or ko from hopkins just imo a lopsided fight.

I don't really believe much in the Cal train i think he is good but just hasnt fought anyone yet besides lacy

leelandk
07-23-2007, 04:55 PM
no my friend...problem is winky stinky or tarver is not joe calzag.....calzag is undefeated for a reason- you make it seem like all he has is speed...i wont even waste my time with you! joe calzag brings more to the table then anyone hopkins faced ( besides rjj at the time)

please re-read carefully before trying to reply



btw Fedor is king

He's undefeated because he is a good fighter who has fought weak competition. Before you start asking me who Hopkins has fought, turn around and ask yourself who Calzaghe has fought in a extremely weak SMW division. And please don't pass off Manfredo as a P4P fighter.

bradlee180
07-23-2007, 11:24 PM
He's undefeated because he is a good fighter who has fought weak competition. Before you start asking me who Hopkins has fought, turn around and ask yourself who Calzaghe has fought in a extremely weak SMW division. And please don't pass off Manfredo as a P4P fighter.


Well, Calzaghe won EVERY Rd against Jeff Lacy 21-0, 17 KOs at the time. All the experts were certain that Calzaghe would be DESTROYED.

Calzaghe KO'd Omar Sheika whose record then was 20-1, 13 KOs (Sheika had wins over Glencoffe Johnson, Simon Brown, and Anwar Oshana at the time).

Calaghe KO'd Mario Veit who was 30-0, 18 KOs at the first fight.
Calzaghe KO'd Veit again who was 45-1, 23 KOs at the rematch.

Calzaghe beat Charles Brewer then 37-8, 26 KOs ( 5 of Brewer's 8 losses were controversial SPLIT-DECISIONS).

Calzaghe KO'd Richie Woodhall then 26-2, 16 KOs.

Calzaghe beat Robin Reid then 26-1-1, 19 KOs.

Calzaghe won title in 1997 from Chris Eubank then 45-2-2, 23 KOs.

Calzaghe's competition isn't as weak as some folks make it out to be. The guys above could fight! Calzaghe's only knocked in America because he's chosen to fight almost all of his career in Europe. Just because he doesn't fight in America doesn't mean he can't fight! Calzaghe's elite and has been a winner all through his career. Too bad his hands have gone bad on him because now that he's finally getting the exposure in America, he can only SLAP with his punches whereas years ago, he really HIT!

Everybody knows Roy Jones ducked a few guys and Joe Calzaghe was one of them. Dariusz Michalczewski was the other. Jones ducked Antonio Tarver for several years. Jones also ALWAYS avoided rematches with both Bernard Hopkins and James Toney. Too bad; they would have been good fights instead of watching Jones "fight" overmatched, low-risk opponents on HBO.

In any case, Bernard Hopkins often gets the same flack as Calzaghe regarding folks saying they both fought in an era of weak competition.

JimmyMoore
07-23-2007, 11:32 PM
Well, Calzaghe won EVERY Rd against Jeff Lacy 21-0, 17 KOs at the time.

Calzaghe KO'd Omar Sheika whose record then was 20-1, 13 KOs (Sheika had wins over Glencoffe Johnson, Simon Brown, and Anwar Oshana at the time).

Calaghe KO'd Mario Veit who was 30-0, 18 KOs at the first fight.
Calzaghe KO'd Veit again who was 45-1, 23 KOs at the rematch.

Calzaghe beat Charles Brewer then 37-8, 26 KOs ( 5 of Brewer's 8 losses were controversial SPLIT-DECISIONS).

Calzaghe KO'd Richie Woodhall then 26-2, 16 KOs.

Calzaghe beat Robin Reid then 26-1-1, 19 KOs.

Calzaghe won title in 1997 from Chris Eubank then 45-2-2, 23 KOs.

Calzaghe's competition isn't as weak as some folks make it out to be. The guys above could fight! Calzaghe's only knocked in America because he's chosen to fight almost all of his career in Europe. Just because he doesn't fight in America doesn't mean he can't fight! Calzaghe's elite and has been a winner all through his career. Too bad his hands have gone bad on him because now that he's finally getting the exposure in America, he can only SLAP with his punches whereas years ago, he really HIT!

Everybody knows Roy Jones ducked a few guys and Joe Calzaghe was one of them. Dariusz Michalczewski was the other. Jones ducked Antonio Tarver for several years. Jones also ALWAYS avoided rematches with both Bernard Hopkins and James Toney. Too bad; they would have been good fights instead of watching Jones "fight" overmatched, low-risk opponents on HBO.

In any case, Bernard Hopkins often gets the same flack as Calzaghe regarding folks saying they both fought in an era of weak competition.

Here's the difference, you dont have to explain who Hopkins' past opponents are. De La Hoya, Trinidad, Joppy, Wright, Taylor, RJJ, Tarver... all speak for themselves.

bradlee180
07-23-2007, 11:53 PM
Here's the difference, you dont have to explain who Hopkins' past opponents are. De La Hoya, Trinidad, Joppy, Wright, Taylor, RJJ, Tarver... all speak for themselves.

Here's a difference:
Hopkins is 6'1" and turned pro as a LIGHT-HEAVYWEIGHT.
Hopkins then dropped to 160lbs, and most of his NAME opponents are blown-up welterweights and blown-up light-middleweights: little guys. Look how SMALL Winky looked in there Saturday night, small and pudgy with a paunch. Trinidad was a welterweight too. Joppy was a little guy. De La Hoya looked like a midget, and it was apparent when Oscar met Hopkins at ring-center for the final instructions that De La Hoya didn't belong in the same ring with Hopkins. Tarver was a big man though. Roy Jones won every rd against a still-green Hopkins. Too bad they never rematched as I think the outcome would have been different.

Like I said: Calzaghe's fought in Europe, so he hasn't gotten the exposure.
Are you saying that Jeff Lacy, Charles Brewer, Omar Sheika, and Chris Eubank don't speak for themselves?

JimmyMoore
07-24-2007, 12:43 AM
Here's a difference:
Hopkins is 6'1" and turned pro as a LIGHT-HEAVYWEIGHT.
Hopkins then dropped to 160lbs, and most of his NAME opponents are blown-up welterweights and blown-up light-middleweights: little guys. Look how SMALL Winky looked in there Saturday night, small and pudgy with a paunch. Trinidad was a welterweight too. Joppy was a little guy. De La Hoya looked like a midget, and it was apparent when Oscar met Hopkins at ring-center for the final instructions that De La Hoya didn't belong in the same ring with Hopkins. Tarver was a big man though. Roy Jones won every rd against a still-green Hopkins. Too bad they never rematched as I think the outcome would have been different.

Like I said: Calzaghe's fought in Europe, so he hasn't gotten the exposure.
Are you saying that Jeff Lacy, Charles Brewer, Omar Sheika, and Chris Eubank don't speak for themselves?

No.. I'm saying that the guys Hopkins has fought: De La Hoya,Tarver, Winky, Taylor, RJJ could beat all FOUR of them on the same night.

Afro
07-24-2007, 01:19 AM
bradlee, Roy Jones did not duck B Hop.. B Hop has said this LIVE that he wouldnt give Roy Jones a rematch

Punk Ass
07-24-2007, 10:46 AM
[QUOTE=bradlee180]Calzaghe KO'd Omar Sheika whose record then was 20-1, 13 KOs (Sheika had wins over Glencoffe Johnson, Simon Brown, and Anwar Oshana at the time).

Calaghe KO'd Mario Veit who was 30-0, 18 KOs at the first fight.
Calzaghe KO'd Veit again who was 45-1, 23 KOs at the rematch.

Calzaghe beat Charles Brewer then 37-8, 26 KOs ( 5 of Brewer's 8 losses were controversial SPLIT-DECISIONS).

Calzaghe KO'd Richie Woodhall then 26-2, 16 KOs.

Calzaghe beat Robin Reid then 26-1-1, 19 KOs.

Calzaghe won title in 1997 from Chris Eubank then 45-2-2, 23 KOs.

Be real! None of them can beat any of the elite that B Hop fought. Were talking about hall of famers. The guys you mentioned are gatekeepers.



Everybody knows Roy Jones ducked a few guys and Joe Calzaghe was one of them..
And yet again. Don't tell RJJ is ducking anybody when he made B Hop and James Toney look like amatures. I dont even know what your talking about but I'm sorry the guy just choose to aim high and fight the best in the world.


In any case, Bernard Hopkins often gets the same flack as Calzaghe regarding folks saying they both fought in an era of weak competition. Yes, B Hop ruled a weak division, with the exception of Antwon Echols (B Hop fucked this guys career up. He was really really good.) But when you start fighting some of the best fighters in the world, I think you start getting your crediblity back.

JimmyMoore
07-24-2007, 10:52 AM
Calzaghe: Hopkins can wait!
Unbeaten WBO super middleweight champion Joe Calzaghe has hit back at Bernard Hopkins - and told him he must get in the queue if he wants to fight him. Following his laboured points win over Ronald "Winky" Wright on Saturday night, Hopkins was vocal in calling out the hard-hitting Welshman. But Calzaghe, who faces undefeated WBC and WBA World Champion Mikkel Kessler in a massive unification clash on November 3 at the Millennium Stadium, Cardiff, says Hopkins has already had his chance - and passed it up. "Hopkins can just get in the line and wait for me because of all the messing around he has caused me. I was all set to fight him a couple of years ago, and he doubled his financial demands after at first agreeing to the fight," said Calzaghe. "If he was really that keen to fight me, he would have signed up there and then but he got cold feet and then tried to save face. It's convenient to call someone out when they already have a fight lined up, but right now I'm focusing on a real fight against Kessler. Once that is done I will look at Ol' Popkins but judging by his performance against Wright there isn't much competition there for me anyway."

Not really any new information. Just a new statement by Cal.

SimpleJack
07-24-2007, 11:21 AM
Oscar De La Hoya (much faster than Calzaghi,) Antwun Echols (just as fast,) RJJ, no need to say anymore.

BTW, Calzaghi is no where near as fast as RJJ.
Echols had NOWHERE NEAR the handspeed of Calzaghe and DLH couldn't even knock the sweat off BHOP in their fight.

SimpleJack
07-24-2007, 11:28 AM
Anyone who compairs RJJ an Calzaghe should be slapped in their face. At this fallen age i believe Roy has still more speed.

Any who i believe Hopkins would shut him down and have his way with him. I don't see a tko or ko from hopkins just imo a lopsided fight.

I don't really believe much in the Cal train i think he is good but just hasnt fought anyone yet besides lacy
I don't think anyone said Joe was as fast as RJJ in his prime.....hell, I can't think of anyone faster or even as fast as RJJ in his prime.....maybe Meldrick Taylor or Camacho in their respective primes? Neither of them hit like RJJ either. What I'm saying is that Hopkins seems to have trouble when guys actually work the whole fight and stay busy like Hopkins and Calzaghe does. No way does Joe KO him, No way is this a super-exciting fight. I just don't think Hopkins can deal with the angles and speed of Joe at this stage.

Atnan
07-24-2007, 11:49 AM
i think this is a case where people just cant handle the fact that joe cal is the real deal and just because he didnt fight in america and fought americas best- you guys write him off....iam not saying hes the best out- nor that he would kill hopkins- iam just saying you guys are writing the dude off just because hes not american

JimmyMoore
07-24-2007, 12:42 PM
What I'm saying is that Hopkins seems to have trouble when guys actually work the whole fight and stay busy like Hopkins and Calzaghe does. No way does Joe KO him, No way is this a super-exciting fight. I just don't think Hopkins can deal with the angles and speed of Joe at this stage.

Good post. Calzaghe cannot allow Hopkins to set the pace for the fight. You're right. Taylor was able to beat him just by being the busier fighter. As Bradlee pointed out, Hopkins definately landed harder shots more frequently against Taylor. Calzaghe is pretty good about staying busy, and I think he'll have to constantly press the action in order to have a chance.
I still maintain that Cal has never been in the ring with an opponent the quality of Hopkins though and that will be the difference.

Afro
07-24-2007, 09:25 PM
i think this is a case where people just cant handle the fact that joe cal is the real deal and just because he didnt fight in america and fought americas best- you guys write him off....iam not saying hes the best out- nor that he would kill hopkins- iam just saying you guys are writing the dude off just because hes not american
Your not saying he would kill Hopkins? you said he would knock Hopkins out.. wtf?

bradlee180
07-24-2007, 09:33 PM
I was happy a few weeks ago when Calzaghe vs Kessler was announced, and I'd much rather see that than Calzaghe/Hopkins.

Bernard Hopkins was my favorite fighter all through the 90's when he was more aggressive delivering KOs, but his style just stinks out the place now. I still re-watch some of his old fights like both fights with Antwun Echols, and the Joe Lipsey annihilation.

bradlee180
07-24-2007, 09:53 PM
No.. I'm saying that the guys Hopkins has fought: De La Hoya,Tarver, Winky, Taylor, RJJ could beat all FOUR of them (Jeff Lacy, Charles Brewer, Omar Sheika, Chris Eubank) on the same night.

You're telling me De La Hoya could BEAT Jeff Lacy, Charles Brewer, Omar Sheika, and Chris Eubank ALL ON THE SAME NIGHT?!! Get real. Any one of these guys would KILL De La Hoya inside 5 rds.

De La Hoya only fought Hopkins because De La Hoya's made a career out of fighting guys at the right time, and he thought Hopkins was all through and ready to be taken...but the old man pulled a surprise on him.

I would also pick Lacy, Brewer, Sheika, and Eubank OVER Winky Wright too. Tarver would have NO EASY TIME against these 4 guys either. A prime Roy Jones beats all 4, though NOT all on the same night. I wouldn't pick Jermaine Taylor over Lacy, Charles Brewer, nor Eubank, but I could see Taylor beating Sheika.

Bernard Hopkins did in fact try to get a rematch with Roy Jones for YEARS, but lost interest after Roy was KO'd by Tarver. Roy kept pricing himself out and insisted on like a 60/40 or 70/30 split in his favor, and Hopkins the 10 year champ insisted on 50/50. Hopkins wanted the fight, but 50/50 was about keeping his respect.

bradlee180
07-24-2007, 10:04 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot to say: it's a pleasure talking boxing with you guys. No boxing fans where I'm currently living. The only guy I can talk boxing with near here is my 78 year old father.

Taylor vs Pavlik's set to happen on Sept 29th by the way. There'll be a good fight...and a new Middleweight Champion by way of knockout. Hope the fight comes off.

Punk Ass
07-24-2007, 10:57 PM
[QUOTE]You're telling me De La Hoya could BEAT Jeff Lacy, Charles Brewer, Omar Sheika, and Chris Eubank ALL ON THE SAME NIGHT?!! Get real. Any one of these guys would KILL De La Hoya inside 5 rds.

I think that was a joke, but yes, DLH would beat them all.


De La Hoya only fought Hopkins because De La Hoya's made a career out of fighting guys at the right time, and he thought Hopkins was all through and ready to be taken...but the old man pulled a surprise on him.

DLH has not made a career of fighting guys out of their prime. Ike Quartey, Fernando Vargus, Tito, and Chaves, (the first fight) were all not that much over the hill.


I would also pick Lacy, Brewer, Sheika, and Eubank OVER Winky Wright too.

Uhhhh No!


Bernard Hopkins did in fact try to get a rematch with Roy Jones for YEARS, but lost interest after Roy was KO'd by Tarver. Roy kept pricing himself out and insisted on like a 60/40 or 70/30 split in his favor, and Hopkins the 10 year champ insisted on 50/50. Hopkins wanted the fight, but 50/50 was about keeping his respect.

Well, I think Roy was right for pricing himself high. The first time, Roy had no problems beating him at all, and it was a boring fight. The P4P champion should get the best part of the purse.

bradlee180
07-25-2007, 12:24 AM
Those who saw Julio Cesar Chavez at his best during the 80’s and early 90’s KNOW Chavez wasn’t the same man he used to be for both fights against De La Hoya. (34 years old the 1st time around I think, and 36 the 2nd time). Chavez’ best was as a lightweight and light-welter, NOT welterweight. Oscar fought Chavez at the right time.

Blown-up lightweight great Pernell Whitaker was 33 and clearly past-his-prime, yet he still BEAT De La Hoya at welter though Whitaker got ripped off in the decision.

Camacho was 35 and another blown-up lightweight.

De La Hoya turned Pro in late 1992, but didn’t fight a PRIME fighter his own size until 1999 against Ike Quartey. For 6 years, De La Hoya feasted on small men and old faded fighters like Jorge Paez, John John Molina, Rafael Ruelas, Genaro Hernandez, Jesse James Leija, Chavez, Whitaker, and Camacho: all little guys or past-their prime. When I first saw the 5’10” De La Hoya right after the Olympics fighting at super-featherweight 130 lbs, I said “this big guy’s not going to have any competition till he gets where he belongs at welterweight, 147 lbs.” 29 fights and 6 years before Oscar fought a legitimate threat in Ike Quartey.

Since the Quartey fight in early ‘99, Oscar’s only fought 13 times over the past 8 years officially losing 5 of them (Trinidad-rip-off decision though, Shane Mosely twice, Bernard Hopkins, mayweather) De La Hoya also clearly LOST to Felix Sturm and was given a gift-decision.

Ultimately what prime fighters did De La Hoya beat?: Quartey, Trinidad (bad decision), and Fernando Vargas. The Mayorga fight was impressive. Were Vargas and Mayorga still the same however after their earlier severe beatings at the hands of Felix Trinidad? De La Hoya fought them at the right time. 2 clear losses to blown-up lightweight Shane Mosely, a loss to blown-up faded lightweight Whitaker, a loss to unheralded Felix Sturm, a loss to faded 39 year old Bernard Hopkins(could he have gotten up?).

De La Hoya indeed DID make a career out of fighting guys at the right time and fighting little guys and faded guys.

What's this have to do with Calzaghe vs Hopkins anyways?

Punk Ass
07-25-2007, 02:13 AM
Those who saw Julio Cesar Chavez at his best during the 80’s and early 90’s KNOW Chavez wasn’t the same man he used to be for both fights against De La Hoya. (34 years old the 1st time around I think, and 36 the 2nd time). Chavez’ best was as a lightweight and light-welter, NOT welterweight. Oscar fought Chavez at the right time.

Blown-up lightweight great Pernell Whitaker was 33 and clearly past-his-prime, yet he still BEAT De La Hoya at welter though Whitaker got ripped off in the decision.

Camacho was 35 and another blown-up lightweight.

De La Hoya turned Pro in late 1992, but didn’t fight a PRIME fighter his own size until 1999 against Ike Quartey. For 6 years, De La Hoya feasted on small men and old faded fighters like Jorge Paez, John John Molina, Rafael Ruelas, Genaro Hernandez, Jesse James Leija, Chavez, Whitaker, and Camacho: all little guys or past-their prime. When I first saw the 5’10” De La Hoya right after the Olympics fighting at super-featherweight 130 lbs, I said “this big guy’s not going to have any competition till he gets where he belongs at welterweight, 147 lbs.” 29 fights and 6 years before Oscar fought a legitimate threat in Ike Quartey.

Since the Quartey fight in early ‘99, Oscar’s only fought 13 times over the past 8 years officially losing 5 of them (Trinidad-rip-off decision though, Shane Mosely twice, Bernard Hopkins, mayweather) De La Hoya also clearly LOST to Felix Sturm and was given a gift-decision.

Ultimately what prime fighters did De La Hoya beat?: Quartey, Trinidad (bad decision), and Fernando Vargas. The Mayorga fight was impressive. Were Vargas and Mayorga still the same however after their earlier severe beatings at the hands of Felix Trinidad? De La Hoya fought them at the right time. 2 clear losses to blown-up lightweight Shane Mosely, a loss to blown-up faded lightweight Whitaker, a loss to unheralded Felix Sturm, a loss to faded 39 year old Bernard Hopkins(could he have gotten up?).

De La Hoya indeed DID make a career out of fighting guys at the right time and fighting little guys and faded guys.

What's this have to do with Calzaghe vs Hopkins anyways?

First off, Pernell Witakerwas only 33 years old, and he didn't get hit that much to lose his prime. What I think is, Pernell stopped snorting coke and got on his job. Sweat Pea is the best LW ever, his defense was better than PBF. He was like the michael Jordan of that style. ]

Nothing to do with the subject, but DLH is a bad man.

bradlee180
07-25-2007, 04:44 AM
Here's a picture of the No. 1 greatest Pound-For-Pound ever. Prime and Age are 2 different things too, fella. Mike Tyson's Prime was when he was 20 to about 22/23 years old, Bernard Hopkins when he was 31 to 35 years old. Whitaker was past it at 33.

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/8412/sugarrayrobinson01gz0.png (http://imageshack.us)

Atnan
07-25-2007, 12:07 PM
Your not saying he would kill Hopkins? you said he would knock Hopkins out.. wtf?
yea cuz knocking someone out means he is going to "kill him"

JimmyMoore
07-25-2007, 12:29 PM
You're telling me De La Hoya could BEAT Jeff Lacy, Charles Brewer, Omar Sheika, and Chris Eubank ALL ON THE SAME NIGHT?!! Get real. Any one of these guys would KILL De La Hoya inside 5 rds.

De La Hoya only fought Hopkins because De La Hoya's made a career out of fighting guys at the right time, and he thought Hopkins was all through and ready to be taken...but the old man pulled a surprise on him.

I would also pick Lacy, Brewer, Sheika, and Eubank OVER Winky Wright too. Tarver would have NO EASY TIME against these 4 guys either. A prime Roy Jones beats all 4, though NOT all on the same night. I wouldn't pick Jermaine Taylor over Lacy, Charles Brewer, nor Eubank, but I could see Taylor beating Sheika.

Bernard Hopkins did in fact try to get a rematch with Roy Jones for YEARS, but lost interest after Roy was KO'd by Tarver. Roy kept pricing himself out and insisted on like a 60/40 or 70/30 split in his favor, and Hopkins the 10 year champ insisted on 50/50. Hopkins wanted the fight, but 50/50 was about keeping his respect.

That was obviously an exaggeration. The size difference alone would be very difficult for most of those guys to overcome. The point is the difference in skill level between Hopkins opponents vs. Cal's is just ridiculous. I can't believe we even have to debate this. Let me try to pose it as a hypothetical.

You are a big name boxing promoter with an incredibly talented amateur boxer who you think could make you an insane amount of money one day. This boxer is equally talented in both the light middleweight and super middleweight divisions. You have two options for your promising young fighter. Either he chooses to fight at super middleweight where he would face: Jeff Lacy, Charles Brewer, Omar Sheika, and Chris Eubank (consecutively) OR he fights at light middleweight where he faces: Oscar de la Hoya, Roy Jones Jr., Glen Johnson, Felix Trinidad, Jermain Taylor, Winky Wright, Antonio Tarver, and William Joppy (consecutively). Which ladder are you sending your boy to try and climb?
The answer should be obvious.

bradlee180
07-25-2007, 03:08 PM
I would add that some very skillful top fighters NEVER catch on with the public and are not given their proper recognition as top fighters , EVEN AS less-skilled fighters sometimes DO catch on with the public like Arturo Gatti for example who's been a headliner. I think a good PR man, management, and promotion has a lot to do with it, in addition to a crowd-pleasing style and personality. Lennox Lewis was never a draw. Mike McCallum never caught on, and never had the recognition except with hardcore fans.

Calzaghe drew over 35 thousand people in attendance against Manfredo. Calzaghe/Kessler may draw as much as 70 thousand attendance with 17 thousand tickets already sold for the November fight. In contrast, Hopkins/Wright only drew 8 626 people on Saturday night with very low PPV buys. Hopkins threw that challenge at Calzaghe following the Wright fight, but Hopkins also added on that Calzaghe has to do it "over here." Why? Like Hopkins often says himself, "if it don't make dollars, it don't make sense." The dollars for Calzaghe /Hopkins are in Europe, not America.

bradlee180
07-25-2007, 03:50 PM
Hey, I put a few pictures and 2 YouTube clips over in the Pics and Videos Forum. The thread is called "MMA Pioneers - Jack Dempsey". For any really young guys in here, Dempsey was the Heavyweight champ during the 20's, and he's one of the legendary greats. Worth watching guys, especially for anybody who thinks old-timers were unskilled.

The Deftone
07-25-2007, 10:33 PM
I gota agree with bradlee, sure b-hop i a legend and has beaten great fighters but at this stage of the game calzaghe is simply a better fighter. I dont even agree hopkins won the winky fight... but thats another story.

Bottom line... Calzaghe WILL beat Hopkins

Atnan
07-26-2007, 08:16 PM
I gota agree with bradlee, sure b-hop i a legend and has beaten great fighters but at this stage of the game calzaghe is simply a better fighter. I dont even agree hopkins won the winky fight... but thats another story.

Bottom line... Calzaghe WILL beat Hopkins

praise the lord....lol

brew128
08-02-2007, 04:08 AM
Calzaghe would box BH head off, maybe not 5 years ago when this fight should of happened but now he is just way too old. His fight with winky was allot closer than the judges thought. Like i say this fight 5 years ago would of been special.

Oh and by the way, before we even start thinking of this fight being a possibility Calzaghe has a tough fight against Kessler coming up, although most would expect Calzaghe to win including me, Kessler isn't going to be no push over and will give him a better fight than Jeff Lacy ever could.