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lilp86
07-27-2007, 03:50 PM
Of all his suitors, the UFC has offered PRIDE heavyweight champion Fedor Emelianenko (26-1 MMA, 0-0 UFC) the most lucrative fight deal, but the contract’s numerous restrictions and the organization’s lack of communication could keep the MMA legend from joining the UFC, said Emelianenko’s manager, Vadim Finkelstein.

Finkelstein, the manager of the Red Devil Sport Club fight team and owner of the M1 Mixfight organization, talked about the contract negotiations with Evgeni Kogan of Sherdog.com.

Emelianenko, 30, has been PRIDE’s heavyweight champion since March 2003. During his reign, he’s beaten some of the sport’s top fighters, including Mirko “Crop Cop” Filipovic, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, Matt Lindland and Renato “Babalu” Sobral.

Ever since the UFC purchase PRIDE earlier this year, fans have wondered when — if ever — the famed Russian fighter and PRIDE 2004 Grand Prix winner would be signed to a UFC contract. Last month, UFCjunkie.com (www.ufcjunkie.com) quoted a source close to the UFC who said the general consensus within the organization that the deal was “inevitable.“

However, according to Finkelstein, that’s now not necessarily the case.

From Sherdog.com:

Sherdog.com: As Fedor’s manager, can you please fill us in on the current state of his contract negotiations.
VF: At the moment we are in negotiations with a number of organizations who have put offers on the table. I’ll be blunt in saying that the UFC offer is the most financially attractive one. However they are very harsh in their terms and are not very flexible in actually negotiating them.

Fedor has now been the PRIDE heavyweight champion for four years and I think we have earned the right to negotiate a contract that suits both parties. Instead we are faced with a blunt “you are either in or you’re out.” This does not really suit us. If the negotiations continue in a similar manner, we’ll prefer to fight for less money but with an organization which is more flexible.

The problem is that Fedor is the face of Combat Sambo in Russia. His popularity is at a level where he is acquainted with president Putin himself, in part because he is so successful and well known for Combat Sambo here.

Combat Sambo is a Russian sport that’s not at a level of difficulty of MMA, but is hugely popular with our public. Fedor must represent Russia in Combat Sambo and at world championships, specifically the ones coming up in September. All we want him to do is compete something like once a year in Combat Sambo. But the UFC is not happy with that.

Their proposal has all kinds of clauses, all kinds of fines etc. that do not suit us. The UFC is not really that eager to communicate and negotiate. The negotiations are still continuing, and we will try very hard to get our demands met, if not Fedor will simply not compete in the UFC, even though that will be unfortunate as they currently have one of the, if not the, strongest, heavyweight divisions in the world.

Finkelstein went on to state that he thinks the UFC prefers an American champion, and despite his offer to help, the organization has no intentions of putting on an event in Russia. That could be a deal-breaker for Finkelstein and Emelianenko, who stay true to their Russian roots.

The UFC, though, would have a lot to lose if the deal doesn’t go through.

The addition of Emelianenko would not only further bolster the UFC’s impressive roster of heavyweights, but it would make a significant statement: that the UFC and president Dana White get what they want. After all, throughout most of 2007, White has vowed to have Emelianenko fighting for the organization.

Additionally, it could set up what could be the biggest fight — ever — in the history of MMA. In August 2005, Emelianenko defeated Filipovic via unanimous decision, and fans have clamored for the rematch ever since.


God I hope they get this deal done. I think another sticking point other the Sambo is Fedor wants to still fight in Russia so I dont see why Dana dosent try to put on a show in Russia they are doing shows everywhere else nowadays why not there

Clint
07-27-2007, 03:54 PM
God I hope they get this deal done. I think another sticking point other the Sambo is Fedor wants to still fight in Russia so I dont see why Dana dosent try to put on a show in Russia they are doing shows everywhere else nowadays why not there
It's not that Dana doesn't want to hold a show there. It's that Fedor's manager wants to have a hand in promoting the show and such.

Krazikarl
07-27-2007, 04:15 PM
Yeah, its important to remember that in any type of negotation like this, neither side really tells the whole truth. If you buy everything that Dana and the UFC says about the situation, you are naive and vice versa.

I really dont see the UFC doing much in Russia for a variety of reasons. One of the big ones is that they would want to keep all of the local businesses and whatnot as far away from it as possible because so many of those kind of people have ties to the Russian mob. There is no way Dana will let his product get anywhere close to that kind of stuff. Just think what would happen if there was a controversial decision in Russia. Accusations would start up real fast even if they had no basis in reality. Dana is also never going to give Fedor's manager that big of a hand in promoting things because thats what happens in boxing, and Dana is eager to stay far far away from that.

The part about American champs is nonsense. Dana has given a number of foreign people VERY quick paths to title shots (A Silva, Cro Cop was fast tracked to the title until a Brazilian got the shot etc). It seems to me that Dana is honestly giving the best fighters regardless of nationality the chance at the title.

methodjg
07-27-2007, 04:17 PM
dana needs to sack up and let him do his combat sambo. Fedor is the best in the world at combat sambo and nothing will happen to him. Hes more likely to get hurt doing mma.

baba
07-27-2007, 04:21 PM
I really dont see the UFC doing much in Russia for a variety of reasons. One of the big ones is that they would want to keep all of the local businesses and whatnot as far away from it as possible because so many of those kind of people have ties to the Russian mob. There is no way Dana will let his product get anywhere close to that kind of stuff. Just think what would happen if there was a controversial decision in Russia. Accusations would start up real fast even if they had no basis in reality. Dana is also never going to give Fedor's manager that big of a hand in promoting things because thats what happens in boxing, and Dana is eager to stay far far away from that..

Excellent point. Alota fans might think UFC should get Fedor at all costs -- but in reality he's not worth sacrificing the sanctity of the organization for but getting in bed with the Russian mob.



The part about American champs is nonsense. Dana has given a number of foreign people VERY quick paths to title shots (A Silva, Cro Cop was fast tracked to the title until a Brazilian got the shot etc). It seems to me that Dana is honestly giving the best fighters regardless of nationality the chance at the title.

Another excellent point. If you keep structuring logical, well-thought-out arguments like these, the blind UFC/Dana haters on here may scratch you off their Christmas card list. Rep'd.

Krazikarl
07-27-2007, 04:23 PM
My suspicion (no proof, but just a gut feeling) is that the deal is that Fedor can do his Sambo, but if he gets hurt and cant fight in the UFC because of it, the UFC gets some of their money back. That would explain the reference to fines.

If Dana spends millions promoting a Fedor fight and he gets hurt and cant fight because of his Sambo, its tough to expect the UFC to just eat the loss. On the other hand, the UFC really shouldnt expect to have total control over their fighters lives (although I should point out that in US sports this kind of control is standard: pro athletes in the US are usually prohibited from high risk activities like riding motercycles, skydiving etc).

foutch550
07-27-2007, 04:23 PM
I know we as fans have alot to gain by Fedor joining UFC. All the fantasy matchups we've talked about and drooled over for years. But in all reality, Fedor's fucking himself if he (or his manager) gets too stubborn. I agree that Dana should make some "accomodating" clauses for Fedor, but if Fedor really wants to continue to fight the best, he'll sign with the UFC. Otherwise, he'll more than likely fight alot of 2nd rate fighters in 2nd class promotions.

**edit**
as for having alot of control over fighters lives...as for how much Fedor can make in UFC PER FIGHT, he can give up some shit. Nawmean? Also, I think the "America wants an American champion." I don't know about that. Who thinks that people like Sylvia better as a champion than Arlovski? The newer mma fans would love Fedor's "pound the fuck outta you" style.

maxp84z
07-27-2007, 04:26 PM
Not all russians are mobsters. First and foremost, why not host a UFC event in Russia? Especially if it's a one time deal. It seems like Fedors manager just wants MMA to be huge in Russia. M-1 is a small promoter and doesnt pose any threat towards the UFC. Fedor likes performing in his native country of Russia. This is why PRIDE had a special contract for him allowing him to fight for other companies IN Russia. The UFC should just host an event in Moscow and have Fedor and Aleks headline. :)

Clint
07-27-2007, 04:26 PM
Yeah, its important to remember that in any type of negotation like this, neither side really tells the whole truth. If you buy everything that Dana and the UFC says about the situation, you are naive and vice versa.

I really dont see the UFC doing much in Russia for a variety of reasons. One of the big ones is that they would want to keep all of the local businesses and whatnot as far away from it as possible because so many of those kind of people have ties to the Russian mob. There is no way Dana will let his product get anywhere close to that kind of stuff. Just think what would happen if there was a controversial decision in Russia. Accusations would start up real fast even if they had no basis in reality. Dana is also never going to give Fedor's manager that big of a hand in promoting things because thats what happens in boxing, and Dana is eager to stay far far away from that.

The part about American champs is nonsense. Dana has given a number of foreign people VERY quick paths to title shots (A Silva, Cro Cop was fast tracked to the title until a Brazilian got the shot etc). It seems to me that Dana is honestly giving the best fighters regardless of nationality the chance at the title.
I agree completely. I think Fedor's manager came off kinda poorly in the interview.


My suspicion (no proof, but just a gut feeling) is that the deal is that Fedor can do his Sambo, but if he gets hurt and cant fight in the UFC because of it, the UFC gets some of their money back. That would explain the reference to fines.

If Dana spends millions promoting a Fedor fight and he gets hurt and cant fight because of his Sambo, its tough to expect the UFC to just eat the loss. On the other hand, the UFC really shouldnt expect to have total control over their fighters lives (although I should point out that in US sports this kind of control is standard: pro athletes in the US are usually prohibited from high risk activities like riding motercycles, skydiving etc).
I thought the same thing with Fines, especially since they are more than likely offering Fedor a signing bonus which I imagine would have to be payed back in the event of an injury that prevents him from fighting caused by an outside activity. A Frank Mir clause almost.

The Iceman
07-27-2007, 04:27 PM
Ummm I don't know much about contracts and contract negotiations, but I do know that if I was Dana White or the UFC I would also like to sign Fedor to a contract exclusive to the UFC. I wouldn't want my fighters fighting in any organization besides mine. What if he goes to Russia and get's KO'ed? I can't market him the same, What if he goes to Russia and gets injured? I can't use him when I want, so I think there are a lot of things that factor in there. I am on the UFC's side on this particular subject. I don't want my fighter fighting anywhere but my organization while under contract with me. Another thing with me is that I think the UFC is the biggest competetion right now and I would think that Fedor would want to fight the best and the money is there so I don't see the problem. That's like me having contracts for the NFL and the arena football league on my desk and NFL is offering more but I can't play with any other league...fine gimme my damn contract!!! I wanna play with the best and I want to get paid the best for it!! Somebody please help me out on this 1 because I know that there is more to it but I just can't see it.

Clint
07-27-2007, 04:28 PM
Not all russians are mobsters. First and foremost, why not host a UFC event in Russia? Especially if it's a one time deal. It seems like Fedors manager just wants MMA to be huge in Russia. M-1 is a small promoter and doesnt pose any threat towards the UFC. Fedor likes performing in his native country of Russia. This is why PRIDE had a special contract for him allowing him to fight for other companies IN Russia. The UFC should just host an event in Moscow and have Fedor and Aleks headline. :)
Like I said To me it seemed like it wasn't as much about not wanting to go to Russia as it was that Fedor's manager wanted to run the Russian show, which isn't gonna happen.

BigBanda
07-27-2007, 04:31 PM
Well it does sound as simple as just letting Fedor frickin compete once a year in Combat Sambo over in Russia but there has to be more to it than just that.

Krazikarl
07-27-2007, 04:33 PM
Like I said To me it seemed like it wasn't as much about not wanting to go to Russia as it was that Fedor's manager wanted to run the Russian show, which isn't gonna happen.

Yeah, it comes down to stuff like who the judges are going to be. Dana would probably rather chop off his left nut than let a Russian judge a UFC fight in Russia, but I imagine that Fedor's manager would like locals to be in positions of authority like that. Even if it was run completely cleanly, if anything weird happened, you would have tons of suspicions. Its just not worth it for the UFC. There are other untapped markets that they would much rather spend their time in than Russia.

Ramma
07-27-2007, 04:47 PM
The part about American champs is nonsense. Dana has given a number of foreign people VERY quick paths to title shots (A Silva, Cro Cop was fast tracked to the title until a Brazilian got the shot etc). It seems to me that Dana is honestly giving the best fighters regardless of nationality the chance at the title.

Not to mention that Shogun only needs to have one fight before his shot..

And Also, Fedor is guaranteed a title fight on his first fight if he wants it. It is a bunch of bull

matto
07-27-2007, 11:41 PM
another reason as of why fedor fears sylvia besides the dancing and the mopad gang, fedor has had tons of women swarming him over his excellent career and fedor just watched sylvia on blind date and saw how easily tim got rid of that red head. fedor was very impressed and wishes that he could drive the chicks away like timmy does.

jlruthven84
07-28-2007, 12:00 AM
There has to be more to the situation than what we've been able to glean from these interviews and such. It all does seem pretty simple, but I don't know...

Seems to me like Fedor just wants to do some sambo on the side...I just hope this doesn't turn into another Brandon Vera situation.

maxp84z
07-28-2007, 12:07 AM
I think that both sides can compromise. The UFC can easily host a WEC event in Russia, (With Fedors manager co promoting with M-1) have it showcase a few red devil fighters and there ya go... Done deal. I should be rep'd for this.

dunivan
07-28-2007, 12:23 AM
Well it does sound as simple as just letting Fedor frickin compete once a year in Combat Sambo over in Russia but there has to be more to it than just that.

because if dana did that, i bet hed have 50 contracts to restructure and get rid of the exclusive clause.

bugsy n
07-28-2007, 01:10 AM
for sure there is more to it than we know ... but i understand the ufc for not wanting fedor to compete anywhere else if he sign ....why would you risk your investment for someone else ....but still .... im sure we gonna see him in the ufc one day since most of the best in the world are there

neonatural45
07-28-2007, 01:59 AM
I wont be THAT heartbroken if Fedor doesnt sign to the UFC. I dont know why but id rather have Kang in the UFC then Fedor

Masscore
07-28-2007, 03:29 AM
I wont be THAT heartbroken if Fedor doesnt sign to the UFC. I dont know why but id rather have Kang in the UFC then Fedor

I kind of agree. The HW divison right now has a lot of great match-ups in it without Fedor.

Big Nog vs. CC 2
GG vs. Big Nog
Werdum vs. Herring
AA vs. Couture
Vera vs. Syliva

I mean those arent even the main ones but I would still love to see any of those fights. Sure with Fedor there are a lot of good match-ups to be made, but its not like without him the divison is dead.

Also, I think the UFC should focus on the MW and LW divison more. They need to get Kang, Isihda, Gomi, Soulev, Lindland to make those divison better.

Intellectual
07-28-2007, 03:30 AM
i agree as well. Fedor is great, and im a fan of the Russian fighters, but i'd rather have Kang, Filho and Sakurai in UFC.

neonatural45
07-28-2007, 03:33 AM
i agree as well. Fedor is great, and im a fan of the Russian fighters, but i'd rather have Kang, Filho and Sakurai in UFC.

so far so good lol

I dont see the UFC keeping Filho in WEC for all four fights, id say this fight then maybe a fight with Mayhem and then he should be out of there and in the UFC

Dork8503
07-28-2007, 04:25 AM
so far so good lol

I dont see the UFC keeping Filho in WEC for all four fights, id say this fight then maybe a fight with Mayhem and then he should be out of there and in the UFC


Filho said he wouldn't fight Anderson, but things can always change.

Intellectual
07-28-2007, 04:28 AM
Filho wont fight Kang and Anderson.

thats 2 dream matches we will never see.

twankydawg
07-28-2007, 05:05 AM
It sounds to me like it's probably a situation where if he became champ, competed in Sambo, and got hurt, he would have to pay fines for it because of a champ having to sit out for 3, 6, maybe even 12 months.

Also, his manager sounds like he's not looking at the best interest of his fighter and wants a piece of the pie with his little org he's starting. Kinda like he wants to use the UFC to give his org legitimacy. He sounds like a fucking bottom feeder. I can understand why Dana won't budge on certain things like that. If Fedor doesn't sign, where is going to go? Who is he going to fight? The only other matchup I would want to see him in outside of the UFC is against Lesnar.

T
07-28-2007, 10:38 AM
From all the different threads I read I see one thing in common and that is Fedor's manager sucks and needs to go. He sounds like a shady bastard and wants to be the Don King of Russia.

twankydawg
07-28-2007, 10:49 AM
From all the different threads I read I see one thing in common and that is Fedor's manager sucks and needs to go. He sounds like a shady bastard and wants to be the Don King of Russia.

I agree man, he's got fuckin leech written all over him!

ChuckBooty
07-28-2007, 12:22 PM
I get the impression that Fedor is used to being able to do whatever he wants, when ever he wants.

He's the J-Lo of MMA.

valheruking
07-28-2007, 01:56 PM
I get the impression that Fedor is used to being able to do whatever he wants, when ever he wants.

He's the J-Lo of MMA.
That may be true, but when it comes down to it Fedor gets the job done for the promoters etc, thats why he has a lot of negotiating power.

marekny144
07-28-2007, 01:57 PM
Ummm I don't know much about contracts and contract negotiations, but I do know that if I was Dana White or the UFC I would also like to sign Fedor to a contract exclusive to the UFC. I wouldn't want my fighters fighting in any organization besides mine. What if he goes to Russia and get's KO'ed? I can't market him the same, What if he goes to Russia and gets injured? I can't use him when I want, so I think there are a lot of things that factor in there. I am on the UFC's side on this particular subject. I don't want my fighter fighting anywhere but my organization while under contract with me. Another thing with me is that I think the UFC is the biggest competetion right now and I would think that Fedor would want to fight the best and the money is there so I don't see the problem. That's like me having contracts for the NFL and the arena football league on my desk and NFL is offering more but I can't play with any other league...fine gimme my damn contract!!! I wanna play with the best and I want to get paid the best for it!! Somebody please help me out on this 1 because I know that there is more to it but I just can't see it.
It's hard to understand Fedor's and his manager's attitude for many Americans because you don't understand the mentality of people like Fedor. I myself grew up in Eastern Europe and there are other more important things to people there than money and fighting for the UFC. As far as I know, he's a pretty traditional guy with a family and obviously very strong attachment to Russia. He's a celebrity there and their pride. He could easily move here and train here but he chose to live with his family in Russia. Those are intangible things that a more lucrative contract cannot buy. Look at Cro Cop. He hates this circus Dana puts on before any UFC event--making the fighters make predicitons, hopefully badmouth one another, let the cameras follow you everywhere you go. There's a lot that goes with being exclusively tied to the UFC that goes against the grain of people like Fedor.

valheruking
07-28-2007, 02:09 PM
It's hard to understand Fedor's and his manager's attitude for many Americans because you don't understand the mentality of people like Fedor. I myself grew up in Eastern Europe and there are other more important things to people there than money and fighting for the UFC. As far as I know, he's a pretty traditional guy with a family and obviously very strong attachment to Russia. He's a celebrity there and their pride. He could easily move here and train here but he chose to live with his family in Russia. Those are intangible things that a more lucrative contract cannot buy. Look at Cro Cop. He hates this circus Dana puts on before any UFC event--making the fighters make predicitons, hopefully badmouth one another, let the cameras follow you everywhere you go. There's a lot that goes with being exclusively tied to the UFC that goes against the grain of people like Fedor.
Yes, i agree, well said.

The Iceman
07-28-2007, 02:23 PM
It's hard to understand Fedor's and his manager's attitude for many Americans because you don't understand the mentality of people like Fedor. I myself grew up in Eastern Europe and there are other more important things to people there than money and fighting for the UFC. As far as I know, he's a pretty traditional guy with a family and obviously very strong attachment to Russia. He's a celebrity there and their pride. He could easily move here and train here but he chose to live with his family in Russia. Those are intangible things that a more lucrative contract cannot buy. Look at Cro Cop. He hates this circus Dana puts on before any UFC event--making the fighters make predicitons, hopefully badmouth one another, let the cameras follow you everywhere you go. There's a lot that goes with being exclusively tied to the UFC that goes against the grain of people like Fedor.
Ok, I can understand wanting to be the pride of your country but at the same time it does look like money is what's important to Fedor(or his manager should I say) because he's looking at who the highest bidder is. Fedor is a fighter and considered the best in the world right now, he could very easily jump to celebrity status here with as u said "the circus" Dana White puts on and be the pride of his country at the same time by knocking Americans out!! Him and his manager have to be crazy to think that the UFC would want to pay him lots of money to fight in their organization while he's off in Russia promoting Samboa or whatever risking injury. Why not go back in between fights or w/e? With the way both sides are being on this situation, I don't think that a deal will get done and if it doesn't Fedor will not be fighting the best so how could he still be called The Best?

valheruking
07-28-2007, 02:27 PM
it does look like money is what's important to Fedor(or his manager should I say) because he's looking at who the highest bidder is.
...

we’ll prefer to fight for less money but with an organization which is more flexible.

LefthookStcrook
07-28-2007, 02:31 PM
This is weird im so use to dana actling all cocky and greedy this is a total surprise to me, i understand fedors russian attachment blah blah blah but if he wants to fight the best fighters in the world and make the best amount of money he's been offered so far THEN WHAT IS KEEPING HIM!!I can see if bodog gave him more money and more exclusion and ufc was cheap and demanding, but in all seriousness i cant see the ufc changing the whole contract terms just to suit fedor, i can honestly see dana saying something like"you dont wanna fight for me?, fuck yea then good luck" Dana has made it clear that he wants fedor and hes willing to pay big money for him and would give him an auto-title shot, if fedor or his manager dont like the ufc exclusions i can see the ufc letting him go fight somewhere else and he'll be beating up 2nd teir fighters for the rest of his career, cuz the ufc easily got the best fighters of any other org

The Iceman
07-28-2007, 02:32 PM
...
In other words...whoever let's me promote Samboa in Russia & gives me decent money gets me. Like I said, he can't be considered the best if he isn't fighting the best and I think that this is a case of a fighter being terribly managed IMO of course.

Steve88
07-28-2007, 02:41 PM
In other words...whoever let's me promote Samboa in Russia & gives me decent money gets me. Like I said, he can't be considered the best if he isn't fighting the best and I think that this is a case of a fighter being terribly managed IMO of course.
imo you're an idiot.. Fedor is a freaking world champion in sambo, why would he want to quit doing that because Dana says so? Fedor will make the right decision for fedor not his manager or whatever, he knows what he wants.

And unless someone beats the people he's beaten in the same kind of way he will be considered the best heavyweight ever for a very long time.

TKDsoldier
07-28-2007, 02:54 PM
This is weird im so use to dana actling all cocky and greedy this is a total surprise to me, i understand fedors russian attachment blah blah blah but if he wants to fight the best fighters in the world and make the best amount of money he's been offered so far THEN WHAT IS KEEPING HIM!!I can see if bodog gave him more money and more exclusion and ufc was cheap and demanding, but in all seriousness i cant see the ufc changing the whole contract terms just to suit fedor, i can honestly see dana saying something like"you dont wanna fight for me?, fuck yea then good luck" Dana has made it clear that he wants fedor and hes willing to pay big money for him and would give him an auto-title shot, if fedor or his manager dont like the ufc exclusions i can see the ufc letting him go fight somewhere else and he'll be beating up 2nd teir fighters for the rest of his career, cuz the ufc easily got the best fighters of any other org

Fedor is like the Rocky Marciano(spelling?) of MMA. Yeah he baiscally has undefeated record but has he fought the best of the best?

LefthookStcrook
07-28-2007, 02:55 PM
In other words...whoever let's me promote Samboa in Russia & gives me decent money gets me. Like I said, he can't be considered the best if he isn't fighting the best and I think that this is a case of a fighter being terribly managed IMO of course.

Fact of the matter is if fedor goes to another org like bodog he's not gonna be fighting the best in the world, hell he'd be lucky to have one fight with one top 10-20er,after a year or two of that NO ONE can consider him the best HW in the world anymore, other top heavys are doing their thing and beating other top heavyweights while fedors stuck beatin up hws ranked like 20-40 and lhw's who could move up.....HUGE lack of competition for fedor you cant consider someone the best when they aint fighting the best, Im sure gretzky would school all the boys in the minor leauges, thas what it would be like.

neonatural45
07-28-2007, 02:56 PM
the UFC should just use the money that they would spend on Fedor on two other good free agents, like melendez and Kang. Barnett would be a good one too but He said something along the lines of "I want to go to the Org that has Fedor" so not getting Fedor may result in not getting barnett either

The Iceman
07-28-2007, 03:02 PM
imo you're an idiot.. Fedor is a freaking world champion in sambo, why would he want to quit doing that because Dana says so? Fedor will make the right decision for fedor not his manager or whatever, he knows what he wants.

And unless someone beats the people he's beaten in the same kind of way he will be considered the best heavyweight ever for a very long time.
IMO you are the idiot my friend. I don't care about sambo and don't even know what it is. If he wants to go do samboa he can go do that but if he doesn't fight the top fighters in the game right now then he WAS #1, not IS. Like I said in my 2nd post he is the best right now but if he doesn't fight the best how can he still be considered the best? Starting your career off with taking out the best the sport has to offer is great.....finishing it off fighting 2nd tier fighters isn't. If you are going to quote me and speak on a previous post, answer the question.

BTW, it's just a forum where people come to discuss opinions you don't have to get all emotional about it.:wavesmile:

neonatural45
07-28-2007, 03:04 PM
IMO you are the idiot my friend. I don't care about sambo and don't even know what it is. If he wants to go do samboa he can go do that but if he doesn't fight the top fighters in the game right now then he WAS #1, not IS.

you dont know what sambo is??? you might want to keep that to yourself

The Iceman
07-28-2007, 03:05 PM
Fact of the matter is if fedor goes to another org like bodog he's not gonna be fighting the best in the world, hell he'd be lucky to have one fight with one top 10-20er,after a year or two of that NO ONE can consider him the best HW in the world anymore, other top heavys are doing their thing and beating other top heavyweights while fedors stuck beatin up hws ranked like 20-40 and lhw's who could move up.....HUGE lack of competition for fedor you cant consider someone the best when they aint fighting the best, Im sure gretzky would school all the boys in the minor leauges, thas what it would be like.
I agree 100000%, you make a great point.

maxp84z
07-28-2007, 03:08 PM
the UFC should just use the money that they would spend on Fedor on two other good free agents, like melendez and Kang. Barnett would be a good one too but He said something along the lines of "I want to go to the Org that has Fedor" so not getting Fedor may result in not getting barnett either

Yeah, that's a huge bummer... although I think Dana and Fedor will come up with a compromise. I think he'll have an injury penalty just in case Fedor get's injured competing in a Russian Sambo tournament. Fedor fought in Russian Sambo tournaments in PRIDE and it was no big deal. Honestly I dont see it as a big deal. Fighters get injured just the same while training.

I know what people are gonna be saying, "Dana is protecting his investment, yadda yadda yadda" Honestly Dana can't afford to lose Fedor. Fedor is currently holding the PRIDE HW title. Dana already lost Gomi while still holding the LW title. He shouldnt lose another title holder. Look at it like this, fighters, players, etc are gonna have personal lives!!! Look at Micheal Vick for example. He's not gonna be able to play this season because of his dog fighting shinanigans.

valheruking
07-28-2007, 03:18 PM
IMO you are the idiot my friend. I don't care about sambo and don't even know what it is.
:ahh:

marekny144
07-28-2007, 03:27 PM
In other words...whoever let's me promote Samboa in Russia & gives me decent money gets me. Like I said, he can't be considered the best if he isn't fighting the best and I think that this is a case of a fighter being terribly managed IMO of course.
You're not listening. You're assuming what's important to every fighter is nothing else but to be called the best in the UFC and fight for the UFC only because at this juncture it happens to have the strongest fighters and is willing to throw most money at them. Some of the guys made excellent points in response to your arguments so I won't repeat them but try to let it through to you that there are other things important to people like Fedor, both personal and fighting-related such as being able to fight in Russia and continue to fight in the discipline that started him on his way to MMA. Would I prefer to sit back in my chair in Ohio and watch him live from Las Vegas on PPV with the UFC logo in the background? Sure. But I also think he has earned it to have his way when it comes to his career and life. Besides, his terms IMO are not outrageous or grandiose. Inconvenient for Dana? Perhaps. Disappointing for UFC fans? Hell, yeah.

The Iceman
07-28-2007, 04:05 PM
You're not listening. You're assuming what's important to every fighter is nothing else but to be called the best in the UFC and fight for the UFC only because at this juncture it happens to have the strongest fighters and is willing to throw most money at them. Some of the guys made excellent points in response to your arguments so I won't repeat them but try to let it through to you that there are other things important to people like Fedor, both personal and fighting-related such as being able to fight in Russia and continue to fight in the discipline that started him on his way to MMA. Would I prefer to sit back in my chair in Ohio and watch him live from Las Vegas on PPV with the UFC logo in the background? Sure. But I also think he has earned it to have his way when it comes to his career and life. Besides, his terms IMO are not outrageous or grandiose. Inconvenient for Dana? Perhaps. Disappointing for UFC fans? Hell, yeah.
It's disappointing I think to everyone that Fedor is the best fighter in the world but won't be fighting the best. I would assume that all fighters fight to be called the best "yes?" if not, what are you fighting for? I understand that he doesn't want to just turn his back on the discipline that got him to where he is today but at the same time wouldnt he be doing that discipline a huge favor by coming to America beating the best? At the end of the day it all comes down to what he wants to do more and if it's not joining the UFC and fighting the best then he can't be considered best. You present a great argument for your case but I also present a good one for mine.

Clint
07-28-2007, 05:14 PM
Yeah, that's a huge bummer... although I think Dana and Fedor will come up with a compromise. I think he'll have an injury penalty just in case Fedor get's injured competing in a Russian Sambo tournament. Fedor fought in Russian Sambo tournaments in PRIDE and it was no big deal. Honestly I dont see it as a big deal. Fighters get injured just the same while training.

I know what people are gonna be saying, "Dana is protecting his investment, yadda yadda yadda" Honestly Dana can't afford to lose Fedor. Fedor is currently holding the PRIDE HW title. Dana already lost Gomi while still holding the LW title. He shouldnt lose another title holder. Look at it like this, fighters, players, etc are gonna have personal lives!!! Look at Micheal Vick for example. He's not gonna be able to play this season because of his dog fighting shinanigans.
Most major sports contracts are like that. Hell some NFL contracts even stipulate that you can't ride a motorcycle.

Krazikarl
07-28-2007, 05:44 PM
Virtually every major sport in the US has the clauses against motorcycle riding. The athlete would have to fight just to be allowed to ride a motorcycle because its now standard to not be able to ride one in contracts. Things like skydiving, bungie jumping etc are also allowed.

It boils down to the fact that if an organization is going to pay you millions of dollars to do something athletic for them, they expect you to be able to compete regularily for them. That means not getting yourself injured in some other way. If you dont like it, then its absolutely your right to hold onto your private life. But, you will have to pass up the big bucks. We will see if Fedor is willing to do that. It sounds to me that the issue isnt hte Sambo, but its his manager anyway.

maxp84z
07-28-2007, 07:27 PM
Virtually every major sport in the US has the clauses against motorcycle riding. The athlete would have to fight just to be allowed to ride a motorcycle because its now standard to not be able to ride one in contracts. Things like skydiving, bungie jumping etc are also allowed.

It boils down to the fact that if an organization is going to pay you millions of dollars to do something athletic for them, they expect you to be able to compete regularily for them. That means not getting yourself injured in some other way. If you dont like it, then its absolutely your right to hold onto your private life. But, you will have to pass up the big bucks. We will see if Fedor is willing to do that. It sounds to me that the issue isnt hte Sambo, but its his manager anyway.

Motorcycle? Frank Mir anyone?

flexshock55
07-28-2007, 07:31 PM
It's hard to understand Fedor's and his manager's attitude for many Americans because you don't understand the mentality of people like Fedor. I myself grew up in Eastern Europe and there are other more important things to people there than money and fighting for the UFC. As far as I know, he's a pretty traditional guy with a family and obviously very strong attachment to Russia. He's a celebrity there and their pride. He could easily move here and train here but he chose to live with his family in Russia. Those are intangible things that a more lucrative contract cannot buy. Look at Cro Cop. He hates this circus Dana puts on before any UFC event--making the fighters make predicitons, hopefully badmouth one another, let the cameras follow you everywhere you go. There's a lot that goes with being exclusively tied to the UFC that goes against the grain of people like Fedor.

I agree with the last sentence; apparently, both PRIDE and Bodog allowed Fedor to sign for fights on a singular basis. Another possible quirk of the Russian pro fighter culture, especially Red Devil Sport, is that they like to fight for organizations as a team, meaning that Fedor has some leverage in getting other fighters on his "team" contracts and exposure, too.

Your whole opinion about Dana's "circus" and having fighters badmouth one another... PRIDE did that more than several times in pre-fight interviews. Watch Rampage vs Silva II prefight, Cro Cop vs Silva II prefight, etc.

marekny144
07-28-2007, 08:20 PM
I agree with the last sentence; apparently, both PRIDE and Bodog allowed Fedor to sign for fights on a singular basis. Another possible quirk of the Russian pro fighter culture, especially Red Devil Sport, is that they like to fight for organizations as a team, meaning that Fedor has some leverage in getting other fighters on his "team" contracts and exposure, too.

Your whole opinion about Dana's "circus" and having fighters badmouth one another... PRIDE did that more than several times in pre-fight interviews. Watch Rampage vs Silva II prefight, Cro Cop vs Silva II prefight, etc.
Personally, I find this whole pre-fight "circus" annoying, UFC or Pride, and belonging in the true circus like the WWF only. How dumb is it to ask a fighter, "What's your prediction for the fight?" What do you think he's gonna say? "Oh, I'm definitely gonna get my ass kicked"? I know I'd hate to have a camera pretty much shoved up my ass when I train for a big fight, or a giggling poster chick pretending she cares about me and my diet. Weigh-ins are cool with me; they let the fighters smell blood and get them going, or the opposite, but definitely get their adrenaline pumping without all the nonsense. Going back to the topic, I think it's easier for American fighters to handle the spotlight as showmanship is part of the game here. Guys like Fedor and Cro Cop developed in a different reality. It's almost painful to watch Cro Cop sitting at the table waiting for his turn to speak; you can tell how uncomfortable he is.

Clint
07-28-2007, 09:25 PM
Personally, I find this whole pre-fight "circus" annoying, UFC or Pride, and belonging in the true circus like the WWF only. How dumb is it to ask a fighter, "What's your prediction for the fight?" What do you think he's gonna say? "Oh, I'm definitely gonna get my ass kicked"? I know I'd hate to have a camera pretty much shoved up my ass when I train for a big fight, or a giggling poster chick pretending she cares about me and my diet. Weigh-ins are cool with me; they let the fighters smell blood and get them going, or the opposite, but definitely get their adrenaline pumping without all the nonsense. Going back to the topic, I think it's easier for American fighters to handle the spotlight as showmanship is part of the game here. Guys like Fedor and Cro Cop developed in a different reality. It's almost painful to watch Cro Cop sitting at the table waiting for his turn to speak; you can tell how uncomfortable he is.
Dude that's hype. You need it for business or only the hardcore fans would be interested.

Noob
07-28-2007, 09:27 PM
Dude that's hype. You need it for business or only the hardcore fans would be interested.

Agreed. The circus can get old, but calling for its demise is short-sighted at best and stupid at worst.

marekny144
07-29-2007, 09:40 AM
Dude that's hype. You need it for business or only the hardcore fans would be interested.
Nonsense. You got it the other way round, Clint. It is precisely the hardcore fans who eat it up. Think about it. If you can't see it, it's not that different from releasing a DVD for a hardcore "Star Wars" fan: which one do you think he'd like better--with special bonus features, or just the movie? 'Nuff said. Non-harcore UFC "fans"? I live with one and I'm friends with many. They could not care less about pre-fight conferences, training regimes, and what gauge chain Rampage wears.

Chute
07-29-2007, 01:08 PM
You prick Dana just let him attend his Sambo tourney's

Diegonightmare
07-29-2007, 01:18 PM
Nonsense. You got it the other way round, Clint. It is precisely the hardcore fans who eat it up. Think about it. If you can't see it, it's not that different from releasing a DVD for a hardcore "Star Wars" fan: which one do you think he'd like better--with special bonus features, or just the movie? 'Nuff said. Non-harcore UFC "fans"? I live with one and I'm friends with many. They could not care less about pre-fight conferences, training regimes, and what gauge chain Rampage wears.

Agreed, I was going to respond to this effect. I'm certainly a hardcore fan and I eat up the "circus". Just really gets me hyped up for fights...I don't view it in any way negatively.

The Iceman
07-29-2007, 01:23 PM
Agreed, I was going to respond to this effect. I'm certainly a hardcore fan and I eat up the "circus". Just really gets me hyped up for fights...I don't view it in any way negatively.
I honestly think that it is both sides that eat it up. I like the weigh ins, and shit talking before the fight and my friends who don't watch the UFC as much tend to like to watch how the fighters train and are interested in bio's because they want to learn more about it. But bottom line... the "circus" is great for business and I think Dana is doing a great job in promoting the sport like he is.

yeomans
07-29-2007, 01:38 PM
people just imagine fedor, yes FEDOR:ahh: not on the ring but in a octagonal cage, yea thats right in a CAGE:ahh: , using elbows, yes people smaching faces whit ELBOWS:ahh:
i think we all gona witness the first death in the ufc.:ahh:

Diegonightmare
07-29-2007, 01:45 PM
people just imagine fedor, yes FEDOR:ahh: not on the ring but in a octagonal cage, yea thats right in a CAGE:ahh: , using elbows, yes people smaching faces whit ELBOWS:ahh:
i think we all gona witness the first death in the ufc.:ahh:

He better train elbows for sure. Elbows go both ways - you don't just have the ability to drop them, you run the risk of taking them.

We saw what happened to Cro Cop when he fought in the cage and hadn't trained for elbows. Fedor does cut somewhat easily, and if he hasn't trained for elbows and a Gonzaga or Randy get him down and start dropping bombs, it could be dangerous for him.

twankydawg
07-29-2007, 01:50 PM
Nonsense. You got it the other way round, Clint. It is precisely the hardcore fans who eat it up. Think about it. If you can't see it, it's not that different from releasing a DVD for a hardcore "Star Wars" fan: which one do you think he'd like better--with special bonus features, or just the movie? 'Nuff said. Non-harcore UFC "fans"? I live with one and I'm friends with many. They could not care less about pre-fight conferences, training regimes, and what gauge chain Rampage wears.

I disagree because I'm not too worried about watching the promos and extras unless it's someone I'm a big fan of. The casual fan who is hooked but doesn't know anything is going to tune in and probably get friends to tune in to. It's all hype, it's part of the master plan I'm sure to get exposure for MMA and that's good for us all, the hardcore and casual fan. This is what helps build the sport, show that the fighters are real people and not a bunch of monsters and thugs, and helps gain more PPV revenue which pays the fighters and promoters. Get over it man, you must not have any idea about how business is done.

marekny144
07-29-2007, 02:09 PM
I disagree because I'm not too worried about watching the promos and extras unless it's someone I'm a big fan of. The casual fan who is hooked but doesn't know anything is going to tune in and probably get friends to tune in to. It's all hype, it's part of the master plan I'm sure to get exposure for MMA and that's good for us all, the hardcore and casual fan. This is what helps build the sport, show that the fighters are real people and not a bunch of monsters and thugs, and helps gain more PPV revenue which pays the fighters and promoters. Get over it man, you must not have any idea about how business is done.
First of all, where did you get the idea I said it was bad for business, or I claimed to know what's best for the UFC or how to run it? It's really annoying when dudes like you come down on others without actually reading the post they respond to. I expressed my personal view on what in my opinion must be annoying to fighters from different cultures in my original post. If anything I admitted it's part of the game in the West. I don't have to get over my personal beliefs or personal experiences (that's what's forum discussions are for), which lead me to believe that no, casual fans are not interested in watching Spike specials, at least the ones I know no matter whether I tune in or not. But I will suggest to you next time you should actually read the post you're responding to so you don't look like you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

twankydawg
07-29-2007, 02:25 PM
First of all, where did you get the idea I said it was bad for business, or I claimed to know what's best for the UFC or how to run it? It's really annoying when dudes like you come down on others without actually reading the post they respond to. I expressed my personal view on what in my opinion must be annoying to fighters from different cultures in my original post. If anything I admitted it's part of the game in the West. I don't have to get over my personal beliefs or personal experiences (that's what's forum discussions are for), which lead me to believe that no, casual fans are not interested in watching Spike specials, at least the ones I know no matter whether I tune in or not. But I will suggest to you next time you should actually read the post you're responding to so you don't look like you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

You are the one that called it a fucking "Circus"..... here:


Look at Cro Cop. He hates this circus Dana puts on before any UFC event--making the fighters make predicitons, hopefully badmouth one another, let the cameras follow you everywhere you go.

It's not a fucking Circus, it's good for business and it's good exposure for the sport. Anything that does that for all of MMA is not a fucking "Circus"!

I guess I have no clue huh? You tell me where CC called it a fucking Circus?

marekny144
07-29-2007, 03:08 PM
You are the one that called it a fucking "Circus"..... here:



It's not a fucking Circus, it's good for business and it's good exposure for the sport. Anything that does that for all of MMA is not a fucking "Circus"!

I guess I have no clue huh? You tell me where CC called it a fucking Circus?
Alright, calm down, man. It's not worth giving each other aneurysm over. The pre-event craze is obviously here to stay. But yes, I do remember reading either here or on another board about Cro Cop not liking having to participate in the UFC's publicity stunts before an event. Another example, although not from MMA is my favorite BB of all times, Dorian Yates, now retired, from Birmingham, England who won Mr. Olympia many times in the 90's. He specifically said he would never move to California and Venice Beach, the Mecca of BB, precisely because of the hype and distracting publicity. If you ever watch his training video "Blood and Guts" you'll understand. His gym is called the Dungeon, and it was a fucking dungeon; I've never seen anything like it. The shiny, pretty and colorful machines in California gyms were in shocking contrast to his old school, chipped, old Nautilus machines or dumbells. That's what I'm trying to say to you--I'd hate the distractions and publicity as a fighter. Whether it's good or bad for the UFC was not within the scope of my posts. Peace.

Clint
07-29-2007, 03:15 PM
lol I just want to point out that Pride had some crazy fuckin prefight hype. Here is Sakuraba doing publicity with the pro wrestler "Hard Gay" (yes there is a japanese pro wrestler named hard gay)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/clintw07/sakunhgev8.jpg

flexshock55
07-29-2007, 05:45 PM
Personally, I find this whole pre-fight "circus" annoying, UFC or Pride, and belonging in the true circus like the WWF only. How dumb is it to ask a fighter, "What's your prediction for the fight?" What do you think he's gonna say? "Oh, I'm definitely gonna get my ass kicked"? I know I'd hate to have a camera pretty much shoved up my ass when I train for a big fight, or a giggling poster chick pretending she cares about me and my diet. Weigh-ins are cool with me; they let the fighters smell blood and get them going, or the opposite, but definitely get their adrenaline pumping without all the nonsense. Going back to the topic, I think it's easier for American fighters to handle the spotlight as showmanship is part of the game here. Guys like Fedor and Cro Cop developed in a different reality. It's almost painful to watch Cro Cop sitting at the table waiting for his turn to speak; you can tell how uncomfortable he is.

LOL I definitely hear you on the prediction questions, no fighter is going to say "I'll let the judges decide" or "he'll probably catch me with one of his nasty left hooks". Prediction questions coming from reporters is a novelty item at best; on any given night, anything can happen. Fedor always fielded questions perfectly - stated his respect for his opponent, their talents, and how he would need to overcome them - and he always does.

foutch550
07-29-2007, 07:48 PM
I think that both sides can compromise. The UFC can easily host a WEC event in Russia, (With Fedors manager co promoting with M-1) have it showcase a few red devil fighters and there ya go... Done deal. I should be rep'd for this.

If anything, rep'd for the Torrie Wilson sig. NICE.

twankydawg
07-30-2007, 02:26 PM
Alright, calm down, man. It's not worth giving each other aneurysm over. The pre-event craze is obviously here to stay. But yes, I do remember reading either here or on another board about Cro Cop not liking having to participate in the UFC's publicity stunts before an event. Another example, although not from MMA is my favorite BB of all times, Dorian Yates, now retired, from Birmingham, England who won Mr. Olympia many times in the 90's. He specifically said he would never move to California and Venice Beach, the Mecca of BB, precisely because of the hype and distracting publicity. If you ever watch his training video "Blood and Guts" you'll understand. His gym is called the Dungeon, and it was a fucking dungeon; I've never seen anything like it. The shiny, pretty and colorful machines in California gyms were in shocking contrast to his old school, chipped, old Nautilus machines or dumbells. That's what I'm trying to say to you--I'd hate the distractions and publicity as a fighter. Whether it's good or bad for the UFC was not within the scope of my posts. Peace.

I wasn't the one having the issue, it was you. Funny how the truth put into words can change someones attitude. I respect the fact that you let it go instead of trying to stay arguing like alot of idiots on here do when you post what they said. Can't deny it when it's in print. Anyway, we kool but I think all the fighters know it's part of the game to help get them known and keep the money flowing. You did nothing but try to make your opinion that of the fighters you mentioned without any proof to back it up. I recommend you not do that in the future.

Kansas
08-04-2007, 05:34 AM
Imagine going home and be loved like a god for what you do representing your country abroad. The love they give Fedor must have built an incredible amount of patriotism within him. Being patriotic has been incredibly rewarding for him. Performing at home is Fedor's civic duty the way voting is for us. Well, he obviously holds something in higher regard than money. How very unamerican of him to have values that don't match ours.

koolaidx
08-04-2007, 09:41 AM
Imagine going home and be loved like a god for what you do representing your country abroad. The love they give Fedor must have built an incredible amount of patriotism within him. Being patriotic has been incredibly rewarding for him. Performing at home is Fedor's civic duty the way voting is for us. Well, he obviously holds something in higher regard than money. How very unamerican of him to have values that don't match ours.

Fedor will go to the highest bidder. Whatever the UFC has offered him will have to be matched by any other company along with the extra stipulations his management wants. But in the end he will end up in the UFC. It's gonna take some give and take by his people and Dana but it's gonna get done. I may be alone in this but I hope Dana holds to the exclusive contract.

Clint
08-04-2007, 09:46 AM
Imagine going home and be loved like a god for what you do representing your country abroad. The love they give Fedor must have built an incredible amount of patriotism within him. Being patriotic has been incredibly rewarding for him. Performing at home is Fedor's civic duty the way voting is for us. Well, he obviously holds something in higher regard than money. How very unamerican of him to have values that don't match ours.
So because he has Pride in his country his manager should get a hand in the business of the UFC? Sure he wants to compete in his country and that is fine, he should negotiate that in his contract instead of his manager trying to jump on this as a chance to promote a UFC card.

Bullock
08-04-2007, 10:02 AM
So because he has Pride in his country his manager should get a hand in the business of the UFC? Sure he wants to compete in his country and that is fine, he should negotiate that in his contract instead of his manager trying to jump on this as a chance to promote a UFC card.


my thoughts exactly

baba
08-04-2007, 10:22 AM
So because he has Pride in his country his manager should get a hand in the business of the UFC? Sure he wants to compete in his country and that is fine, he should negotiate that in his contract instead of his manager trying to jump on this as a chance to promote a UFC card.

booyaa

Clint
08-04-2007, 10:38 AM
I do want to point out that I respect the fact that Fedor is willing to take less money in order to continue doing Sambo, that shows his character alot. But his manager still seems shady as hell.

Kansas
11-24-2007, 08:36 AM
Fedor will go to the highest bidder. Whatever the UFC has offered him will have to be matched by any other company along with the extra stipulations his management wants. But in the end he will end up in the UFC. It's gonna take some give and take by his people and Dana but it's gonna get done. I may be alone in this but I hope Dana holds to the exclusive contract.

Really now?

twankydawg
11-24-2007, 08:50 AM
Really now?

Pretty childish to resurrect this thread just to say I told you so.

tmlfan
11-24-2007, 10:27 AM
Pretty childish to resurrect this thread just to say I told you so.

really now?






j/k



lol @ the threat resurrector ....

twankydawg
11-24-2007, 10:56 AM
really now?






j/k



lol @ the threat resurrector ....

:lmfao: agreed!

Palma
11-24-2007, 01:00 PM
Pretty childish to resurrect this thread just to say I told you so.

Agreed, and he is... negged!

smoogy
11-24-2007, 04:50 PM
Lock time.

Kansas, don't dig up any more ancient threads unless you like the idea of having negative rep.