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View Full Version : STEROIDS: What IS post cycle therapy?



ChuckBooty
07-31-2007, 06:15 PM
The first thing we need to understand is what is going on with our bodies when we're taking anabolic steroids:
Exogeneous anabolic hormones (or derivatives of anabolic hormones) are being brought into your system. This causes the body to take a number of responsive actions. The first and foremost (as you already know) is increased muscle mass. Unfortunately, other things are also going on that aren't so great

When an enzyme or hormone is brought exogeneously into the system, chemical balances shift around to attain a certain equilibrium. This is a chemical concept known as Le Chatelier's Principle of Chemical Equilibria. In a nutshell, your body will increase production of estrogen, cortisol, and other hormones in response to heightened testosterone levels, while simultaneously slowering (or completely stopping) natural production of testosterone. Biologist call this negative feedback.......biology sucks doesn't it?

Le Chatelier's Principle for the scientifically impaired:
Let's pretend A and B react to make C (can't get much simpler than that).

A + B --------> C

So we have a mixture containing A, B, and C. According to LeChatlier's principle, if we add more C to the mixture, the amounts of A and B will increase. If we remove some of the C from the mixture, A and B will decrease. And if we were to add A, B, or a combination of the two, C will increase. Still with me here? Good.


What's going on when we come off a cycle:
Ok, so while we're on the cycle, are natural test production is going down to compensate for the exogeneous test intake, and our production of other steroid hormones (i.e. Estrogen, Cortisol, etc.) is going up to compensate for the heightened test levels. When we come off a cycle, we cease intake of exogeneous testosterone. In other words, we have very low test levels, and very high cortisol and estrogen levels: it's the EXACT OPPOSITE of what we had while starting our cycle.

REMEMBER Le Chatelier's Principle because this is where it gets really important. When we have an excess of one hormone, the others will start shifting around, to attain a certain equilibrium. Ok, I'm gonna say it (and bold it) again because it's just that important. When we have an excess of one hormone, the others will start shifting around, to attain a certain equilibrium. It is a very common misconception that we want to eradicate estrogen . High estrogen levels play an integral part in Post Cycle therapy. That's right, you want to welcome high estrogen with open freaking arms, but there's a trick to it. And that trick is the almighty SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator).

SERM's: the foundation of post cycle therapy:
Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators are (and damn well should be) the foundation for any proper post-cycle therapy plan. A post cycle therapy plan without them, isn't a post cycle therapy plan: it's a bunch of crap you decided to take after doing a cycle. The purpose of a SERM is to block the negative effects estrogen, while your hormone levels go back to equilibrium.

SERM's are prescription drugs, and are NOT SOLD IN SUPPLEMENT STORES. In fact, there are only 3 ways ( can think of) in which you can obtain a SERM:

1) Through a Doctor's Prescription.
2) Through the Black Market (a.k.a. illegally)
3) As a research chemicals intended for use in lab rats.


The Different SERM's:

Tamoxifen (Nolvadex):
Reputation: Most popular SERM for post cycle therapy
Pros: Cheap. Effective for gyno prevention.
Cons: Heptatoxicity. Studies have shown it to lower IGF levels (I don't feel like citing, but it's about 20% decrease...IMO no biggie).
Popular Dosage (for a 4-week cycle): 40/40/20/20
Note: Tamoxifen Citrate is less potent, and should be dosed at an extra 30%.

Clomiphene Citrate (clomid):
Reputation: Second most popular. Usually taken the first week or so to speed up Testosterone recovery with Tamoxifen being taken the whole therapy.
Pros: Better than Tamoxifen for HTPA regernation. Less heptatoxicity. Does not lower IGF.
Cons: Less effective against gyno. Can cause emotional issues. May Cause blurred vision. Hot Flashes.
Popular Dosage (for a 4-week cycle): 100-200mg/100mg/50mg/50mg

Toremifene:
Reputation: Very popular on this board
Pros: Much less toxic.
Con's: $$$$$expensive$$$$$
Popular Dosages (for a 4-week cycle): 120-240mg/120mg/60mg/30mg

Raloxifene:
Reputation: Very effective against gyno
Pros: Strong protection against gyno. Less toxic than Tamoxifen.
Con's: Cost Restricting. Can cause abnormal blood clotting in the eyes, lunges, and legs. May also cause hot flashes trouble breathing, and blurred vision.
Popular Dosages: (for a 4-week cycle): 120-240mg/120mg/60mg/30mg


Moving down the post cycle therapy Hierarchy: Cortisol Control
Excess cortisol can be damaging to your newly found muscle mass. Because of this, it is a good idea to use something to block or lower the excessive cortisol levels. Always start high, and taper your way down. Here's what we have to work with:

B-Androstenetriol (b-triol): This is one of the better cortisol suppressors. It has a terrible oral bioavailability, and should be taken transdermally. Dosages range from 25-50mg every 12 hours.

Methyl B-Androstenetriol (mb-triol): This is an enhanced version of b-triol designed for oral use. Because it is not an androgenic steroid, there is minimal heptatoxicity associated with it's alkylation. Found in the following products: Retain (by Anabolic Xtreme), Restore (by ALRI), Thyrogen-X (by ALRI)

7-Hydroxy-DHEA: Another potent cortisol suppressor with great oral bioavailability. Found in the following products: Lean Xtreme (by Designer Supplements), Reduce XT (by SNS)

7-oxo-DHEA (7-keto-DHEA): Still a decent contender, this has a terrible oral availability and an even worse half life (2 hours). This is best taken transdermally, where such effects can by bypassed.

Cissus: Unlike the above, the components of Cissus do not suppress Cortisol, but rather block cortisol receptors (better than Nandrolone or Dianabol according to some studies). Dosages vary significantly (pending extracts). SuperCissus by USPLabs is a high quality Cissus product.

Branched Chain Amino Acids: These should be a staple to begin with, but are a great anti-catabolic that mitigates the muscle-wasting effects of cortisol.

At the bottom of the post cycle therapy hierarchy there's AI's, Test Booster's, and other 'natural' anabolics
Way too many different things going on in here to go into too much detail. Just a word of caution (and this is my personal opinion), but if you're post cycle plan starts to look like a constitutional ammendment: you're over-doing it. And the worst part is if something goes wrong, you won't have a damn clue what caused it.

Honorable mentions of this part of the hierarchy:
Jungle Warfare (by ALRI)
MassFX (by Anabolic Xtreme)
Hyperdrol (by Anabolic Xtreme)
Ecdysterone/Turkesterone
Creatine Monohydrate

SimpleJack
07-31-2007, 06:52 PM
Did i miss HCG?

That's the most popular PCT I can think of.

ChuckBooty
07-31-2007, 07:12 PM
Did i miss HCG?

That's the most popular PCT I can think of.

Well HCG is best when run ON CYCLE. It prevents your natural testosterone production from shutting down in the first place.

dudefella
07-31-2007, 11:47 PM
Well HCG is best when run ON CYCLE. It prevents your natural testosterone production from shutting down in the first place.
rep'd for helping spread some truth about gear


HCG is more of an aromitase inhibitor isn't it? not sure, haven't run it before.

You should probably add something about AI's like arimidex in there... prevents most common sides of steroids from occurring.

SimpleJack
08-01-2007, 12:25 PM
No. HCG is used to return the testes to normal size and function both during and after a cycle. It combats testicular atrophy. It's what you might call a "Kick-start" to your PCT. Anyone who uses and plans on returning to normal will use it. I don't know of very many people who use it in-cycle actively unless they are in their last 2 weeks. Clomid and Nolvadex are used in-cycle much more. MesoRx forums is a great place for info.

Submissionist
08-07-2008, 08:07 AM
i heard HCG has a very high chance of gyno if you use a large dosage. Maybe 250iu every 2-3 days?

jon70
10-11-2008, 06:36 AM
Be sure to be healthy if you choose this path. Dont' rush anything, take your micro and macro nutrients, don't drink and don't smoke. Be as healthy as you can. (http://www.trueathletenutrition.usana.com)

be safe and good luck
jon
Jon Kalnas- wants the good life (http://www.jonkalnas.blogspot.com)

Esox Express
10-16-2008, 12:48 AM
Be sure to be healthy if you choose this path. Dont' rush anything, take your micro and macro nutrients, don't drink and don't smoke. Be as healthy as you can. (http://www.trueathletenutrition.usana.com)

be safe and good luck
jon
Jon Kalnas- wants the good life (http://www.jonkalnas.blogspot.com)

Stop Spamming

The MMADoctor
10-30-2008, 06:17 AM
I just don't understand why any MMAer would ever want to use steroids. Take a look at the physiques of the top MMAers. Muscular hypertrophy is not that beneficial. Power and endurance are so much more important. Both of which you don't need steroids for. Testosterone, d-bol Deca = I cringe when I hear an MMAer wants to use one of these.
Ox, winstrol, and t-bol are so much better, but again, they're not all they're cracked up to be.