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Noob
08-06-2007, 11:06 PM
This place really would be my favorite sub-forum, if I wasn't the only person who ever posts here.


So, now that I've vented that. What's your favorite submission or submissions? Okay, so it's not that original. Fuck you. Something has to start the conversation in here.


Favorite submission. Start talking.



Mine is the arm triangle, with a close second going to the Brabo choke.

ufobydeath
08-07-2007, 01:32 AM
My favourites would be the Step-over Toe Hold Facelock, Side-choke, Bodytriangle, Double Wristlock and Indian Deathlock (it's a bitch to hook though).

Of all of those I most like the Step-over ;) Seeing the surprise in the opponents eyes when you catch them is priceless!

Noob
08-07-2007, 01:40 AM
I will add the Twister to my list. It's not super high percentage, but it's a hell of a move and just looks cool.

Also, the bicep slicer from the Salaverry position.

NixHex
08-07-2007, 01:47 AM
I'm still learning these things, so you guys threw some things out there i've only heard about and haven't actually applied yet lol.

My favorite sub up until a couple months ago was Punches n Bunches.

Now that i'm learning about actual subs I like both triangles (arm & leg), blood chokes are cool. And the RNC & Guillotine are ol' faithfuls. I'm mainly a choke person right now, with the occasion Kimura, Americana, and heelhook.

Would you guys mind explaining some of the more advanced moves you listed? If you could type me threw it once i'll be able to memorize how it's done.

ufobydeath
08-07-2007, 01:47 AM
Oh, the bicep slicer is one nasty move! Fun counter to an armbar counter, especially if you manage to figure-four your legs over your arm


Here's a link going over some leg-locks including the Step-over (#8) http://www.lockflow.com/article_view.php?id=2897

The Double Wristlock is basically a kimura

The Indian Deathlock http://www.lockflow.com/article_view.php?id=399

Here's a list of moves from the mount, including a Bicep Slicer (not the one I prefer... I usually go for a Short Arm-scissor) http://www.lockflow.com/article_view.php?id=2902

Noob
08-07-2007, 01:52 AM
Oh, the bicep slicer is one nasty move! Fun counter to an armbar counter, especially if you manage to figure-four your legs over your arm
That's one of my favorites. No one ever sees that coming. And if you can't pull it off, you can just slide your leg through the far-side arm and go for a traditional triangle.

That's a damned bad spot to catch someone in. There is so much you can do.



Would you guys mind explaining some of the more advanced moves you listed? If you could type me threw it once i'll be able to memorize how it's done.
The Twister is a spine-lock submission made popular by Eddie Bravo. It's not great, but her's a pic of Eddie doing it on Rogan:

http://www.hatashitasports.com/images/products/455Thumb.jpg



And the arm triangle. Also known as the side choke, or head and arm choke. It's a shitty picture, but it gives the basic idea. It's normally applies from side control, and occasionally from guard.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/6/61/250px-MCRP3-02Bfig6-6sidechoke.png


And the body triangle. Also known as the anaconda body lock or the figure-four body lock. Basically you make a figure-four with your legs, but you do it around the torso of your opponent rather than around their neck. Another crappy picture:

http://www.tampabjj.com/images/header/Matt_with_body_triangle.jpg

The guy with backmount is doing it. His right foot (though it's hard to see) is tucked behind his left knee just like in a regular triangle. Then you pull the head back to arch their back and squeeze the shit out of them.

ufobydeath
08-07-2007, 01:56 AM
Yep, I love it :D

Another move I really love to pull is the double wristlock from the head and arm position (I think it would be scarfhold or something...)! Nobody (and I mean nobody) has ever seen that coming when I grapple! Though it seems that most people refrain from using that position, and I can't really see why?

The amount of sick stuff you can pull from the omoplata as well if you don't lever to much on it is astounding as well! I got my buddy with an armbar-facelock yesterday and he never saw it coming!

Noob
08-07-2007, 02:06 AM
And the Brabo. Pretty easy choke, but you don't see it very often surprisingly.


http://www.grapplearts.com/Images/Grappling-Techniques/Marcio-Feitosa/Brabo-10-small.jpg


http://www.grapplearts.com/Images/Grappling-Techniques/Marcio-Feitosa/Brabo-06-small.jpg


http://www.grapplearts.com/Images/Grappling-Techniques/Marcio-Feitosa/No-gi-choke-5-small.jpg

ufobydeath
08-07-2007, 02:09 AM
Why use the brabo when you use The Almighty Armbar?!


...

I'm really tired of armbars by the way :ahh:

Noob
08-07-2007, 02:19 AM
Why use the brabo when you use The Almighty Armbar?!


...

I'm really tired of armbars by the way :ahh:

Lol, because I hate the armbar. When you miss it or don't get it on right you lose position, and I fucking hate losing position. It's what you work all that time for. I'd rather have the position over the submission anyday. With the Brabo, if you fuck it up you're still in side control and can try it again and again.

Plus, armbars are harder to land no-gi. Sweat and such.

ufobydeath
08-07-2007, 02:30 AM
Lol, because I hate the armbar. When you miss it or don't get it on right you lose position, and I fucking hate losing position. It's what you work all that time for. I'd rather have the position over the submission anyday. With the Brabo, if you fuck it up you're still in side control and can try it again and again.

Plus, armbars are harder to land no-gi. Sweat and such.


I don't like the traditional BJJ armbars where you have to jump and sit next to the guy (giving up the mount is not a small thing for me) so I always try to improvise. When I go for an armbar I usually work my way up the guy's body until I'm high up on his chest. I then fake a DWL or a keylock and push his arm into his face. From there I shift the knee on the same side so that it's at his elbow and then lever up with my body against the knee. They usually tap from this and should they try to roll around I won't lose mount.

Noob
08-07-2007, 02:43 AM
I don't like the traditional BJJ armbars where you have to jump and sit next to the guy (giving up the mount is not a small thing for me) so I always try to improvise. When I go for an armbar I usually work my way up the guy's body until I'm high up on his chest. I then fake a DWL or a keylock and push his arm into his face. From there I shift the knee on the same side so that it's at his elbow and then lever up with my body against the knee. They usually tap from this and should they try to roll around I won't lose mount.

The traditional setup works good for gi, but I find that it's not nearly as efficient in no-gi. I do a similar set up to what it sounds like you do.

I like to try for the keylock, prompting them to roll onto their side and bring the other arm across their body to defend. From there I transition to the Who's Yo Daddy position and put one of my feet on the inside of their elbow just in case I can't get the armbar. That way I have an easy and quick transition to the bicep slicer or the triangle.

It's not very effective in gi because it gives them the chance to grab their sleeve, but it's great for no-gi. Also makes a lot of people roll away from you, giving you their back.

ufobydeath
08-07-2007, 02:58 AM
I really don't like grappling with a gi (the pants are ok but I don't like the jacket)...

If I miss the armbar I usually counter with a keylock or DWL (since one foot in on the ground you just have to jump way over him ;)) or go for an arm-triangle (since the arm is already in his face I smother him with it while I go for the figure-four)! The choke works great on big guys!

neonatural45
08-07-2007, 06:47 AM
anaconda choke/gator roll

Ubermensch
08-07-2007, 09:10 AM
It use to be the Side Choke, Arm Triangle and RNC...but now it is the Mexican Headlock!!!

strife
08-07-2007, 10:52 AM
I always get people in Triangles or Omoplatas frequently. Guess those are my favorites by default.

matto
08-07-2007, 01:05 PM
thinkin about making a thread about this, there is nothing more satisfying then sinking in a very deep rnc with the body triange on tight. it is impossible for ur opponent to escape unless u injure urself or something stupid. every submission is sweet. other favs are the kamura, the twister, keylock, and a good ol knee bar.

Frasedog
08-07-2007, 05:53 PM
kimura from the bottom. kneebar. and there is a nice scisors choke from north/south with your legs.

bkiser81
08-07-2007, 07:04 PM
Can anyone tell what the name of the sub. bisbing did to josh haynes on the TUF finale.

Omoplata
08-07-2007, 07:32 PM
Kimura, Americana, Ankle Lock and Omoplata.

"Omoplata Joe, Omoplata. Push his head down!!!", BJ Penn (That line is the reason I picked my SN... UNLOAD!!!)

ufobydeath
08-07-2007, 11:06 PM
Can anyone tell what the name of the sub. bisbing did to josh haynes on the TUF finale.



He never hooked him with anything :confusedsmilie:
He had a chickenwing at one point near the end but chose to let it go and earlier he was going for an armbar but messed up and was cranking a very loose omoplata that would never work :\

NixHex
08-08-2007, 04:23 PM
Good shit fella's, I knew a few of those subs but didn't recognize them by name. But a few were brand new to me. Didn't Couture put the Brabo Choke on Van Arsdale? And the Step over Toe Hold Face-lock is a move I remember seeing in "Pro" Wrestling back in the day but the dude called it the STF.

Everytime I get somebody's back my first instinct is to lock the body triangle, and I get it rather easily even on bigger guys. Is this risky doing this or should I get the body triangle whenever possible like I have been?

I gotta training session at 1 today with a guy that trains once a week with Rich Franklin, so it oughta be a good time. 311 concert is tonight too WOOOOOOO, probably gonna be the greatest day of my life (especially if I miraculously pull a sub on Sean).

Omoplata
08-08-2007, 05:02 PM
I gotta training session at 1 today with a guy that trains once a week with Rich Franklin, so it oughta be a good time. 311 concert is tonight too WOOOOOOO, probably gonna be the greatest day of my life (especially if I miraculously pull a sub on Sean).

Cool man... 311 concert was cool when it was here in Houston. Didn't play a couple of songs I wanted to hear (Beautiful Disaster and Transistor) but I had a blast.

NixHex
08-08-2007, 05:42 PM
Cool man... 311 concert was cool when it was here in Houston. Didn't play a couple of songs I wanted to hear (Beautiful Disaster and Transistor) but I had a blast.
Beautiful Disaster is top notch, Transistor is probably far down my list of 311 songs though (not a bad thing because it's still a great song). I was looking at some play lists and they've played Nix Hex almost every show (personal fav), and a lot of Homebrew (another personal fav), and a lot of Omaha Stylee (another personal fav). As you can tell I like the Grassroots CD most, but I could listen to every 311 song in succession, they're hands down my favorite band.

matto
08-08-2007, 05:50 PM
ya dont worry about that, it wasnt a true submission, just bisping being a dumb.. well just being himself. spends too much time sipping tee and watching horrible english comedy to learn actual grappling.

Ubermensch
08-08-2007, 07:48 PM
ya dont worry about that, it wasnt a true submission, just bisping being a dumb.. well just being himself. spends too much time sipping tee and watching horrible english comedy to learn actual grappling.

HEY!!! I like English comedy!!!:grinsmile1:

ufobydeath
08-09-2007, 12:04 AM
Good shit fella's, I knew a few of those subs but didn't recognize them by name. But a few were brand new to me. Didn't Couture put the Brabo Choke on Van Arsdale? And the Step over Toe Hold Face-lock is a move I remember seeing in "Pro" Wrestling back in the day but the dude called it the STF.

Well, the Step-over is an old Catch Wrestling technique so it's not surprising that you'd find it in pro wrestling (CACC is the forfather of pro wrestling after all). There are a lot of subs from Catch that you'll find weird, watered down versions of in wrasslin that are really brutal if you apply them as they were meant to be applied (the Dragon Sleeper comes to mind... almost broke my buddy's neck with that one)



Everytime I get somebody's back my first instinct is to lock the body triangle, and I get it rather easily even on bigger guys. Is this risky doing this or should I get the body triangle whenever possible like I have been?


I usually try to get the body triangle if it's a bigger guy as it really fatigues them and holds them down... the downside is of course that you can't move either so you'd better have a damn good sub while your legs are gassing ;)
I have really big, strong legs so my body triangle usually hurts like a bitch but then again I go for a neck crank at the same time.
Only thing I know for sure that you shouldn't do from the back: cross your legs! If your opponent is flexible enough he can get a nasty ankle lock on you

spinach
08-09-2007, 12:15 AM
Darce Choke

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6445016315920644897

Kimuras"R"Us
08-09-2007, 04:55 AM
I like the Kimura (obviously), the Darce, and the Anaconda choke. I hit the Americana pretty frequently but it's not really my favorite I just always seem to get to a position where I can apply it rather easily. Also the armbar from the bottom Fedor landed on Coleman I love, and hit Tuesday for the first time.

matto
08-09-2007, 08:26 AM
the gogo is great but hard as hell to land. unless you have very good flexability u usually have to use ur hand to grab it and you opponent is usually in a high gaurd so it involves more work.

mcdev88
08-09-2007, 10:22 AM
i love sinking in a deep triangle, the is nothing like it to me. also i love getting the ankle lock like kurt angle and ken shamrock did in wwe.

i also wasnt familar with some of those names but after seeing the diagrams know what they are.

matto
08-09-2007, 10:26 AM
yes triangles are great, but remember you Must hook the leg and hold on tight with you hand especially if your fighting a stroge or explosive fighter or you might end up like arona.

ufobydeath
08-09-2007, 07:47 PM
yes triangles are great, but remember you Must hook the leg and hold on tight with you hand especially if your fighting a stroge or explosive fighter or you might end up like arona.

Or even lay them down on their side which I find works even better :p

matto
08-09-2007, 08:31 PM
i liked diaz's gogo on gomi. i like how he put his other foot across the shoulder kinda like a triangle in a way. i was tought to put it around the side of hook the leg to make it harder to get out, which it does, but the way nick does it puts moer pressure on it.

kaisq11
08-10-2007, 04:57 AM
Anaconda Choke

Frasedog
08-17-2007, 07:49 PM
Thought I'd add one that has worked well for me in the last few weeks. Kimura from north/south position. You can make a real smoot transition from kasa gatame to n/s, keeping their far shoulder and pulling them up on their side. Squeeze with your knees and secure their chest. Apply the kimura, done deal!

ufobydeath
08-21-2007, 02:18 AM
Me and a buddy managed to figure out some fucked up armlock a few days ago when drilling S-mount moves that really works well! It's fast and has a really nice flow to it so I'll be looking to perfect it now and see how well it works :D As soon as I find a high % way to pull it off I'll post it here

pa99fighter
08-21-2007, 09:19 AM
I just love the guillotine

Ramma
09-05-2007, 03:54 AM
To be honest, the armbar. Sometimes nothing can look as beautiful as an excellently executed armbar.

Runner up would be a gator roll or RNC.

Brandon
09-05-2007, 05:17 AM
Knee-bars and omoplatas. Neither of which I'm particularly good at, but I just like'em.

Palma
09-05-2007, 06:52 AM
Anaconda Choke

Hell yeah! I love that moment before you jump to the other side to apply pressure after you sink it in.

warrior06
09-05-2007, 07:05 AM
RNC or body triangle.

I have successfully pulled em off in a real scrap.

kylewyzle2005
09-26-2007, 10:16 PM
armbar

Noob
09-26-2007, 10:24 PM
armbar


Lol, a man of many words I see.


I just found out today that my favorite submission is illegal in competition. I'm actually pretty bummed about that.

ufobydeath
09-26-2007, 10:31 PM
Lol, a man of many words I see.


I just found out today that my favorite submission is illegal in competition. I'm actually pretty bummed about that.

Come on man, you can't just leave me hanging like that! What is it, a nosebar?

Noob
09-26-2007, 10:42 PM
Come on man, you can't just leave me hanging like that! What is it, a nosebar?



Lol, no. And that's the thing, it's nothing exotic. My favorite submission is the bicep-slicer from side control. But my coach was telling me yesterday that all bicep-slicers are illegal in competition now, because of the rate of injury.


Which really sucks because it's a really sneaky move that almost no one ever sees coming.

ufobydeath
09-26-2007, 10:45 PM
Lol, no. And that's the thing, it's nothing exotic. My favorite submission is the bicep-slicer from side control. But my coach was telling me yesterday that all bicep-slicers are illegal in competition now, because of the rate of injury.


Which really sucks because it's a really sneaky move that almost no one ever sees coming.

WTF?! Ah come on, I use that one as an armbar counter-counter all the time, and it's illegal? It is just in BJJ though or does it apply to SW as well?

Noob
09-26-2007, 11:11 PM
WTF?! Ah come on, I use that one as an armbar counter-counter all the time, and it's illegal? It is just in BJJ though or does it apply to SW as well?




I think just in BJJ. I'm not really sure. I'm in Spain, and my Spanish isn't so great that I understand every nuance yet. But I definitely got that I was not allowed to use it, which sucks really bad.

ufobydeath
09-26-2007, 11:31 PM
I think just in BJJ. I'm not really sure. I'm in Spain, and my Spanish isn't so great that I understand every nuance yet. But I definitely got that I was not allowed to use it, which sucks really bad.

I'll just have to ask my teacher if it's legal in shooto (if it is then I'm home-free in one section)... and btw aren't heel-hooks legal in BJJ? Because they're far worse in comparison!

Ok, it's retarded to argue over the rules but it kind of sorta like doesn't make sense :\

kaiz77
09-26-2007, 11:50 PM
doesnt really matter what kind.....Lately my Brabo has had a pretty good % of finishing....and anacondas are pretty sweet when you execute them well...

AJL416AZ
09-27-2007, 10:15 AM
i fucking hate getting bicep sliced. i got one and my arm was fucked up for a couple days because i didn't tap fast enough.


but my overall favorite is the side head and arm choke.
and i also like to hit a back mount armbar. i just learned a tight new way to hold the arm and roll into the armbar from a purple belt

willieshatner
09-28-2007, 09:42 PM
chokes, chokes, and more chokes. :grinsmile1:

lately I've really been working a lot on my guard and right now my best weapon from there is probably the triangle choke. I generally try to work my way to the back from the guard or the mount and finish them from there. If I catch a submission hold in the process, so be it.

with the gi I love to pull all manner of collar chokes. clock chokes, loop chokes, cross chokes, thrust chokes and a bunch that I can't name.

I also find it much easier to catch an armlock or a leg/footlock when people are constantly worried about getting choked

so basically I don't have a favorite submission, but I generally favor chokes

ufobydeath
09-28-2007, 10:31 PM
I also find it much easier to catch an armlock or a leg/footlock when people are constantly worried about getting choked


This is what you always want to go for. I find passing the guard to be really easy simply because I've become notorious for my achilles lock ;)

kaiz77
09-28-2007, 10:59 PM
speaking of the straight foot lock.....and hearing that you're good at it......can you post like a list of important points to properly apply it er something...

That would be great!!....I slap one on from time to time...and sometimes I just think it could be better....like Im missing something... so any tips you can give would be great....you know..the little things that make yours so affective....
appreciate it man!!!

ufobydeath
09-28-2007, 11:09 PM
speaking of the straight foot lock.....and hearing that you're good at it......can you post like a list of important points to properly apply it er something...

That would be great!!....I slap one on from time to time...and sometimes I just think it could be better....like Im missing something... so any tips you can give would be great....you know..the little things that make yours so affective....
appreciate it man!!!

Shit, I don't really know what I do that makes it work better... the only pointers I feel I can give are kind of basic, but hey it's something!

I always make sure that the "blade" of my arm is right above the heel, on the area where the tendon connects to the heel (you'll know where it is if you check out your own foot ;)) and I always squeeze the leg tight with my own. I always roll to the side so that he can't put his foot on the mat and extend with my entire body (looking up tends to help). Also I never figure four my arms and instead go for a wrestling grip. If he doesn't tap I add a twist (easier to do with a wrestler's grip) which almost makes it a toehold and that usually does it.

The last part is probably what does it... I guess it's something I picked up when working some catch techniques, but adding a twisting motion to a submission usually makes it work better for me.

Hope it helps :\

kaiz77
09-28-2007, 11:14 PM
Yeah that does help...any info is good info!!!...lol
my only question is wrestling grip?....like...

palm perpindicular to palm?....or fingers gripping fingers??
...fingers interlocked??
please explain....(sorry I know it may be difficult)....thanks so much

Noob
09-28-2007, 11:23 PM
Yeah that does help...any info is good info!!!...lol
my only question is wrestling grip?....like...

palm perpindicular to palm?....or fingers gripping fingers??
...fingers interlocked??
please explain....(sorry I know it may be difficult)....thanks so much


I think he means Gable Grip, or at least that's what I refer to it as. Put your hands together like you're praying, then rotate them 90 degrees in relation to each other.


So now your palms are touching, but your fingers are pointing at right angles.


Then just clasp your hands together. That's a wrestling grip, also known as a Gable Grip.

ufobydeath
09-28-2007, 11:34 PM
I think he means Gable Grip, or at least that's what I refer to it as. Put your hands together like you're praying, then rotate them 90 degrees in relation to each other.


So now your palms are touching, but your fingers are pointing at right angles.


Then just clasp your hands together. That's a wrestling grip, also known as a Gable Grip.

Yeah, that's basically it!

Here's where Josh Barnett is demonstrating it http://www.lockflow.com/image_view.php?id=2446&art=786

kaiz77
09-28-2007, 11:38 PM
Perfect!!!....thanks guys!!...thought that was what you were talking about....reps are on the way....just gotta spread some more...lol....that the problem when you give too much good info fellas....cant rep you fast enough...

ufobydeath
09-28-2007, 11:44 PM
No problem man, just spreadin the love :afro:

SgtFrenchy
09-29-2007, 03:55 AM
What about the STF! OOOOHHHH he looks like he's in pain! LOL!:laughing2:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e228/hego_tj/cenesnme.jpg

BJJ Boy
10-22-2007, 01:03 PM
I have no clue what my favorite submission is, recently ive bee catching lots of kimuras from the guard, guilliotines are very cheap, fast and very effective. Then the armbar, you can get it from almost any position!

blackfox
10-22-2007, 02:54 PM
body triangle, RNC. nothing more satisfying then choking somone with so little force.

rafesparza
10-22-2007, 07:24 PM
I probably go guilliotines.

Easy to teach.

Easy to remember.

Not always easy to maintain, but therein lies the challenge.

Jem7dbk
10-22-2007, 08:47 PM
Straight arm bar or kimura from guard.

Noob
10-22-2007, 09:00 PM
Straight arm bar or kimura from guard.



I've had a lot of luck recently with the elevator sweep/kimura combo. Going from the sweep to the kimura, or vice versa. Seems to work very well for me.


If they post, kimura. If they don't post, you get the sweep. And the other way around, if they don't suck their arm in, kimura. If they do, sweep. It's nothing too high-level, but like anything else it's effective once you get it down really well.

Araevin
10-26-2007, 11:23 AM
i have long legs, so i like to pull an armbar from my gaurd, and i love the triangle....i use that alot...its amazing how guys get caught with it and the very next roll they try to pass gaurd and give u their arm again!! lol..

Legend
10-26-2007, 12:40 PM
Mine is simple and a classic. Rear naked choke. Nothing better then taking someone's back and either tapping them out or chocking them out.

ozzy2525
10-27-2007, 01:48 AM
Mine is simple and a classic. Rear naked choke. Nothing better then taking someone's back and either tapping them out or chocking them out.
Agreed I dont get it much but when you have that thing deep it just feels so good. If its not that I would go with Armbar

Legend
10-27-2007, 01:52 AM
Agreed I dont get it much but when you have that thing deep it just feels so good.

:lmfao:

ufobydeath
10-27-2007, 02:07 AM
Agreed I dont get it much but when you have that thing deep it just feels so good.

That's... suggestive...

Noob
10-27-2007, 02:24 AM
Agreed I dont get it much but when you have that thing deep it just feels so good.



The rear naked choke is good too.

ScottS
11-05-2007, 08:24 AM
A type of kyelock from North South. I've never heard a name for it so I can't effectively search for pictures. It's also a longwinded description...so we'll just have to roll for you to see it.

Noob
11-05-2007, 08:49 AM
A type of kyelock from North South. I've never heard a name for it so I can't effectively search for pictures. It's also a longwinded description...so we'll just have to roll for you to see it.



I assume you're talking about something different than the kimura?


I've heard people refer to the kimura as a reverse key lock, and I know that one from N/S, but I've never heard of any other similar locks from that position.



If you get time, I'd love to hear a description of the technique. Maybe even pictures if you're enterprising enough, lol.

ScottS
11-05-2007, 07:21 PM
Not a kimura. It's no longer late at night so I'll describe as best I can. My camera is currently broken or I would set up a way of taking pictures, too. Hopefully someone will recognize this and label it as a much more common submission than I'm aware and find a link that we can reference that is better than what I'm about to give.

I will be talking this through to attack the person's left arm.
You're on top and have double over. (It is most effective when you feel the person on bottom clasp their hands together.)
- In the first motion you will reach your left hand back and cup their left elbow, keeping it pinned to your side. Do not release this throughout the submission.
- As soon as you have the elbow secured to your body spin out so that you are now lying along side your opponent, hip to hip, facing up, with him being on your right. The left arm you are attacking will now be over your body and the wrist pinned under your armpit (If you visualize you will already see the formation of a keylock). The person's head will be crushed by your body weight and their grip will immediately break (I have yet to have someone keep the grip).
- Your right knee is best to be bent between 45 and 90 degrees because your left leg must now reach across and over the other person's hips. For me and my level of flexibility this is a (quick) two step process. I first reach my left foot between the other person's legs and then pop it completely over. This prevents the escape (rolling away/out) and completes the position which makes it possible to create the torque on the shoulder.
- Finally, raising your hips will end the process and accomplish the submission.

Noob
11-05-2007, 07:51 PM
Not a kimura. It's no longer late at night so I'll describe as best I can. My camera is currently broken or I would set up a way of taking pictures, too. Hopefully someone will recognize this and label it as a much more common submission than I'm aware and find a link that we can reference that is better than what I'm about to give.

I will be talking this through to attack the person's left arm.
You're on top and have double over. (It is most effective when you feel the person on bottom clasp their hands together.)
- In the first motion you will reach your left hand back and cup their left elbow, keeping it pinned to your side. Do not release this throughout the submission.
- As soon as you have the elbow secured to your body spin out so that you are now lying along side your opponent, hip to hip, facing up, with him being on your right. The left arm you are attacking will now be over your body and the wrist pinned under your armpit (If you visualize you will already see the formation of a keylock). The person's head will be crushed by your body weight and their grip will immediately break (I have yet to have someone keep the grip).
- Your right knee is best to be bent between 45 and 90 degrees because your left leg must now reach across and over the other person's hips. For me and my level of flexibility this is a (quick) two step process. I first reach my left foot between the other person's legs and then pop it completely over. This prevents the escape (rolling away/out) and completes the position which makes it possible to create the torque on the shoulder.
- Finally, raising your hips will end the process and accomplish the submission.



Man, I got almost nothing out of that.



So you are starting in N/S, correct?



Then how are you cupping their left arm? Are you overhooking it? Or cupping the triceps with your hand?


I'm assuming by double-over you mean that from N/S you have your elbows in their armpits essentially.


Which way are you spinning? Clockwise or counter-clockwise?

ScottS
11-05-2007, 08:23 PM
Yes, starting North South and double over is elbows in the armpits.

The elbow is what you secure. Your hand is cupped around their elbow and your forearm runs the length of theirs. Their hand and wrist will be in your armpit.
The spin is clockwise with your lower body coming under the attacked arm. It would be counterclockwise if you were going after the other arm if that helps at all.


EDIT:::

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCHAdwZVE_0

Here's someone pulling it off. They don't keep the weight on the head as I do, which is how he almost escapes, but notice how the leg across the body is still able to hold him down and he's arching his hips up for the keylock. It's not a great video but it provides a visual. Just skip to the end.

MasterShake
11-05-2007, 08:29 PM
I have to say one of my favorites is the flying armbar, its crazy to see and when someone can actually pull it off it looks pretty awesome

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/jay98107/MMA/sutasflyarmbar.gif

ScottS
11-07-2007, 11:36 AM
Almost pulled off the north south keylock tonight but time was called.
Subs I did accomplish: cross collar from guard, brabo from top half guard, ezekial from mount, north south>side breadcutter, gogoplata from mount.
In case it isn't obvious, I like choking people.

Noob
11-07-2007, 12:31 PM
Yes, starting North South and double over is elbows in the armpits.

The elbow is what you secure. Your hand is cupped around their elbow and your forearm runs the length of theirs. Their hand and wrist will be in your armpit.
The spin is clockwise with your lower body coming under the attacked arm. It would be counterclockwise if you were going after the other arm if that helps at all.


EDIT:::

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCHAdwZVE_0

Here's someone pulling it off. They don't keep the weight on the head as I do, which is how he almost escapes, but notice how the leg across the body is still able to hold him down and he's arching his hips up for the keylock. It's not a great video but it provides a visual. Just skip to the end.



I think I see what you're talking about. It was hard to tell from the video.


I do something similar from a failed armbar position. Also when you go for the armbar and you need to break their grip on the arm. Turns it into a shoulder lock essentially.

unquiet
11-07-2007, 03:30 PM
I'm really liking the north south choke that Jeff Monson used in ufc, and Marcelo Garcia more recently in adcc. People think it's pretty new, but it's been around for a long time. Frank Shamrock was trying to pull it off against Bas Rutten in Pancrase. It's cool to see the different set-ups for it.

My instructor likes to hit an Invisible Brabo choke too, viscious.

Noob
11-07-2007, 04:01 PM
I'm really liking the north south choke that Jeff Monson used in ufc, and Marcelo Garcia more recently in adcc. People think it's pretty new, but it's been around for a long time. Frank Shamrock was trying to pull it off against Bas Rutten in Pancrase. It's cool to see the different set-ups for it.

My instructor likes to hit an Invisible Brabo choke too, viscious.


Yeah, I use that N/S choke a lot too. The brabo is one of my favorite chokes, and I have some very sneaky setups for it. It hit that more than any other submission by far. I try to make sure I can catch it from almost all positions.


Invisible Brabo, is that the Brabo without an arm in? I haven't heard that name before.



And what happened to Jeremy Williams? I knew he passed away, but I never heard what the cause was.

kaiz77
11-07-2007, 09:59 PM
I'm really liking the north south choke that Jeff Monson used in ufc, and Marcelo Garcia more recently in adcc. People think it's pretty new, but it's been around for a long time. Frank Shamrock was trying to pull it off against Bas Rutten in Pancrase. It's cool to see the different set-ups for it.

My instructor likes to hit an Invisible Brabo choke too, viscious.

Ive been trying to use this more and more...but 3 out of 5 times....its just not right.....I can get into the position but it always seems that his chin is always like in my armpit.......so I guess the problem is getting under his chin...

any suggestions?

NixHex
11-08-2007, 12:22 AM
Ive been trying to use this more and more...but 3 out of 5 times....its just not right.....I can get into the position but it always seems that his chin is always like in my armpit.......so I guess the problem is getting under his chin...

any suggestions?
I like putting pressure on the throat with my forearm (much easier to get your forearm under the chin than it is to get the bicep) and then working his chin up to slide my bicep under his chin.

unquiet
11-08-2007, 03:19 AM
Yeah, I use that N/S choke a lot too. The brabo is one of my favorite chokes, and I have some very sneaky setups for it. It hit that more than any other submission by far. I try to make sure I can catch it from almost all positions.
Invisible Brabo, is that the Brabo without an arm in? I haven't heard that name before.
And what happened to Jeremy Williams? I knew he passed away, but I never heard what the cause was.

Brabo is a submission you can hit from a ridiculous amount of positions, I don't know why I haven't added it to my arsenal. I barely use it, and I only think of it from half-guard but it can be done from almost everywhere.

Yeah the invisible brabo is coined from Rick Estrada I think. He's my instructor at Subfighter. It is a brabo without an arm in. One set up is if the guy turns his chin the other way to defend the n/s choke, you hit him with the other arm and get the brabo grip. It feels like your head's going to pop off.

Jeremy passed away by suicide. I never got the exact details of what he was going through, but it must have been intense for him to do that. He was my instructor at Apex Jiu-Jitsu. After he left, a bunch of his good friends started SubfighterMMA and that's where I train now. I was really happy when I downloaded your takedown, passes, and choke videos you uploaded because it brought back good memories of his incredible teaching. I hope you upload more of those videos of Jeremy because he was really skilled in his techniques and teaching style.

unquiet
11-08-2007, 03:37 AM
Ive been trying to use this more and more...but 3 out of 5 times....its just not right.....I can get into the position but it always seems that his chin is always like in my armpit.......so I guess the problem is getting under his chin...

any suggestions?


http://www.graciemag.com/news/149/ARTICLE/7182/2007-05-17.html

If the chin is still under the armpit, but you have his head wrapped up, just keep working the choke by turning his chin away from you and digging your shoulder in deeper by shrugging it in.

Noob
11-08-2007, 10:24 AM
Yeah the invisible brabo is coined from Rick Estrada I think. He's my instructor at Subfighter. It is a brabo without an arm in. One set up is if the guy turns his chin the other way to defend the n/s choke, you hit him with the other arm and get the brabo grip. It feels like your head's going to pop off.


Yeah, an instructor of mine showed me that from halfguard. It was here in Spain though, so obviously the name was different, lol.


I still haven't worked it into my game, but adding it as a variation on the N/S choke sounds like a good idea. I love the N/S choke, but it's never a super high percentage submission. So anything that bumps those numbers up is a welcome addition.




Jeremy passed away by suicide. I never got the exact details of what he was going through, but it must have been intense for him to do that. He was my instructor at Apex Jiu-Jitsu. After he left, a bunch of his good friends started SubfighterMMA and that's where I train now. I was really happy when I downloaded your takedown, passes, and choke videos you uploaded because it brought back good memories of his incredible teaching. I hope you upload more of those videos of Jeremy because he was really skilled in his techniques and teaching style.



Man, that is really sad.


Yeah, a lot of the sweeps and chokes in the compilations I posted were from the Apex school. A ton of them had Jeremy on there. That was my first exposure to his stuff.


He was a very technical teacher. The clips of him teaching were always twice as long as other ones, because he put so much time into it and focused on variations. I always found that helpful.

Noob
11-08-2007, 12:39 PM
http://www.graciemag.com/news/149/ARTICLE/7182/2007-05-17.html

If the chin is still under the armpit, but you have his head wrapped up, just keep working the choke by turning his chin away from you and digging your shoulder in deeper by shrugging it in.


You can also walk it around and turn it into a neck crank.



There are times that you can't get your shoulder under the chin. There are ways to increase the percentages, but nothing is 100%.


The method I came up with, is to keep driving your lat into their face, dropping your hip on the same side a little lower than your other hip. Keep tight pressure, using a guillotine grip with your hands.


From here, walk yourself around like the hand of a clock. Which direction you will walk depends on which side you're doing it on. If you have your left arm around their neck, you will walk your body in a clockwise direction.


As you keep this up, choke or not, it will eventually start tilting his neck at an odd angle. Depending on the person it will either start choking because of the weird angle, or it will turn into a neck crank.






You have to also be careful about controlling their hips on the same side that your body is on. This technique can immediately go to shit if you give their hips room to move. It allows them to roll and possibly get to all fours. And there's nothing quite like working really hard on setting up a technique just to have it all go to crap because of some small detail on the other side of their body that you forgot all about. I know from experience, it fucking sucks.

kaiz77
11-08-2007, 03:49 PM
THanks guys!!...that clears things up a bit....Ill experiment tonight...and hope to get it on video...

krayven
11-09-2007, 06:44 PM
I got caught in an Omaplata wednesday at class, it was some creepy shyt

U don't have long to decide in one of those thats for sure. ..lol


I don't know why but the Kimura is my fave pro'ally from my bouncer days it was always the most effective for controlling people