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NixHex
08-23-2007, 01:06 PM
I've been doing cross training with my buddy who's in the Police Academy, and they teach those guys some dirty ass tactics. I don't learn these things in BJJ class obviously, because BJJ is a clean sport. But I love learning these techniques and moves from the Academies Self Defense/Physical Training classes because they'd work great in a life or death environment.

Anybody else get into "Dirty" Jiu Jitsu? There's a lot of ignorant people in this world, and it's nice to know some dirty tactics if one of those idiots were to pick you to attack/rob/whatever.

Noob
08-23-2007, 01:45 PM
There are always the main standby's of dirty fighting that always apply and don't require much instruction. Fish-hooking, eye gouging, groin shots, biting, etc.


But aside from that, I wouldn't turn down an opportunity to learn some 'dirty JJ' if given the chance.

Brandon
08-23-2007, 03:30 PM
Is anybody else familiar with the method of pinching your knees together as you pop your hips up while someone is in your guard? If you hit it right on their bottom rib it hurts like a bitch. And if you can underhook your own legs behind his back you can do the same thing, but it's a lot tighter.

If I was in a bjj tournament I wouldn't do this, but I would in an MMA fight.

Punk Ass
08-23-2007, 04:44 PM
What is dirty JuJitsu? Are there any specific BJJ moves that are not allowed in the UFC or other competition, that are just taught for self defense?

If so, what are they?

neonatural45
08-23-2007, 04:48 PM
http://forums.mmanews.com/showthread.php?t=9638&highlight=dirty+jiu+jitsu

hope that helps, its a thread made awhile back about it

ufobydeath
08-23-2007, 05:53 PM
What it is is basically traditional, Japanese Jiu-jitsu which is basically BJJ + whatever you need to win the fight. Problem is that some schools (like the one I went to at one point) take out grappling thinking that it isn't effective (morons) and put too much focus on traditional techniques that don't work.

Punk Ass
08-23-2007, 06:27 PM
What it is is basically traditional, Japanese Jiu-jitsu which is basically BJJ + whatever you need to win the fight. Problem is that some schools (like the one I went to at one point) take out grappling thinking that it isn't effective (morons) and put too much focus on traditional techniques that don't work.

Huh? Jujitsu without grappling? What are the traditional techniques that don't work?

Your talking to a person that hasn't trained yet. :sadsmile1:

ufobydeath
08-23-2007, 07:30 PM
Huh? Jujitsu without grappling? What are the traditional techniques that don't work?

Your talking to a person that hasn't trained yet. :sadsmile1:

Well... technically there's grappling but it's more along the lines of "You grab my lapelle and I'll kick you in the balls while twisting your arm making you fall down and then lock on a hammerlock". Doesn't really work that well compared to BJJ, CACC or SW methods. The reason I took up BJJ instead was that they took out the grappling claiming that it sucked, and grappling was the thing that got me into martial arts!

Sum it up: Traditional Ju-jitsu is nice for all of the dirty tricks you learn but for every good move there's an equally bad :\

Punk Ass
08-23-2007, 08:21 PM
Well... technically there's grappling but it's more along the lines of "You grab my lapelle and I'll kick you in the balls while twisting your arm making you fall down and then lock on a hammerlock". Doesn't really work that well compared to BJJ, CACC or SW methods. The reason I took up BJJ instead was that they took out the grappling claiming that it sucked, and grappling was the thing that got me into martial arts!

Sum it up: Traditional Ju-jitsu is nice for all of the dirty tricks you learn but for every good move there's an equally bad :\

I thought traditional JuJitsu was grappling also? Maybe that perticular schools teachers were retards. I know traditional JuJitsu also grappled as well I saw a film of the origions.

ufobydeath
08-24-2007, 08:21 PM
I thought traditional JuJitsu was grappling also? Maybe that perticular schools teachers were retards. I know traditional JuJitsu also grappled as well I saw a film of the origions.

I thought that too until I actually got there... me and an old buddy were essentially the only guys actually interested in grappling whilst all of the others were just there for the work out (and to learn suspect techniques to boost their confidence a la McDojo) so they probably chose to take out the grappling in our school because of that. Traditional ju-jitsu grappling was more battlefield oriented so it's kind of different from modern BJJ (I have never had to use the many sword-disarming techniques that I had to learn at the traditional) which is more "take him to the ground, position and sub him". I'd probably sum it up like this: Trad Ju-jiutsu is kind of like Aikido without all of the goofy shit and the magic tricks + with some "battle submissions", dated techniques and dirty tactics (fish-hooking, eyegouging, hairpulling, ballbusting and so forth).


... and yes they were retards. I've since learned that they teach Krav Maga instead :\

matto
08-25-2007, 04:16 AM
pressure points and dont let go of the submissions. a crusifix or a twister and dont let go, ah that would hurt.

NixHex
08-25-2007, 12:52 PM
What is dirty JuJitsu? Are there any specific BJJ moves that are not allowed in the UFC or other competition, that are just taught for self defense?

If so, what are they?
You're not allowed small joint (fingers, thumbs, toes) manipulations in UFC, or BJJ. But in the Police Academy (Dirty JJ) their bread and butter is controlling that thumb, which leads to controlling the elbow, to the shoulder. They teach a lot more controlling small, weak portions of the body (fingers, wrists, ankles) which leads to controlling the connecting strong points (arms, legs). BJJ from my classes seems to be teaching me to control the body, and take advantage of any mistakes by isolating a part of the body.

Another little thing he taught me... if you grab onto an earlobe, you'll find that it has a nice grip for you. And grabbing a person's ear is much more effective than the ol' school fishhook (you can be bitten, and the lip is much more slippery). I'm gonna work with him twice a week, in the late night so it doesn't interrupt with my BJJ classes.

Anybody from around (or make it to) the Cincinnati area that trains?

Repenter
11-12-2009, 01:33 PM
some of my base is catch wrestling, and the amount of horrifying cranks, muscle splicers and all-around dirty shit you can pull on someone in catch wrestling keeps any grappler in a gi more than on his toes. there is also a lot of elbow pressure used, especially on the sternum and the bridge of the nose. bwa ha haaa

thefirm0
11-20-2009, 07:59 PM
i got my buddy down and got behind him while he was sitting and put my knee in his back and let him have double fish hooks. that was dirty.

Agentman
06-27-2010, 10:44 AM
I'm a student of the Lancashire style of 'catch as catch can' submission wrestling which is absolutely laden with dirty tricks.

Some of these tricks harken back to the days of bare knuckle fighting, so all your fish hooks, eye gouges etc which are still useful for self defence but not permitted in martial arts sparring or training.

What I have been consistantly taught however is to always make life as uncomfortable as I possibly can within the rules although theres no big secret to these techniques, its simply a matter in most cases of not being such a nice guy.

So if your in your opponants guard jam those elbows in as hard as you can into the soft tissue, if your in side control grab a handful of shoulder or collar and lean the blade of your forearm accross his throat or put your knee in his solar plexus, if your in mount then jam the top of your head under his jaw and grind away, smother the guy, crank his neck up and just make things as uncomfortable/painful as you possibly can and hopefully he'll be distracted enough to offer you a submission.

When I spar with guys who are brand new to the sport it never fails to suprise me just how polite and gentile they are so I always make the point of telling them not to be so nice when theyre looking for the submission or transition and to incorperate some of these tricks.

Pressure points are something Ive never found to work - they are fine if youre escorting someone away by the arm and you need some pain compliance or something but too difficult to find when sparring or competeing against someone

noahm
06-27-2010, 11:27 AM
Back in the day, Marco Ruas brought a lot of that stuff into the UFC before it was against the rules. Look for some of his fights, and you will see finger cranking etc. I think he was the first to really bring in the foot stomps that you still see today, at least that I remember.

Agentman
06-27-2010, 11:36 AM
Ruas came from a Vale Tudo background, the principles of which were based in street defence and the idea that 'anything goes' or 'anything is acceptible'. I trained at a Vale Tudo school for several years and 'dirty' techniques are still very much a feature.

Repenter
07-19-2010, 02:14 AM
calf splicers. oh, yes.

drifter73
08-16-2010, 08:22 PM
Everyone may have a different definition of what "Dirty" Jujitsu is. If it's something being used in the cage that's questionable or against regulations, then sure, lets call it dirty. However, if it's in a real life situation and you were attacked, I don't think their is any such thing as dirty, as the ultimate goal is survival at all costs no matter what fighting form(s) you use.

To me, I think the MOST beneficial art one can include in their training as a 2nd or 3rd mastery is "Pressure points". I watch fights day in & day out & the closest I see to pressure point execution is joint manipulations for a submission win. Learning pressure points would make a fighter almost unstoppable, as even the slighted index finger poke to a spot of the body would send the adversary into a temporary pain & throw their game off long enough for you to land a few cripplers to follow it up. (Ideal for a ground game)

I think the real question would be; Would you consider Pressure points to be unethical or "Dirty" both inside & outside the ring even though it's not stipulated against in the rules, or would you find it to be an asset when used properly?