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kaiz77
10-19-2007, 01:59 AM
Well....I need some help fellas so any info I can get......the better....

was rolling today and everything was goin great as usual...until I got teamed up with someone with some really long legs........

We were paired for a 3 min round and it absolutely sucked.......

We started with me in his closed guard and it ended there...it was basically one minute of me posturing up and trying to create space to pop open his guard, followed by 2 minutes of him bodytriangling me from the bottom...and I couldnt get the damn thing open!!!.......it was so frustrating!!....

what do you do in this position? I tend to have trouble popping the guards of long legged oppenents.... I wasnt in any danger really....because I really only had to be conscious about arm attacks and a standard guillotine...he never tried to sweep...and never unlocked his legs once!!.....

I just tried to get good posture..work my way down to his lower stomach often succesfully...knee in middle of butt....good balance.... but I couldnt push off....just to tight....

The only thing I could think of after the time was up was.... man.....I dint try a standing guard pass... Is this what I should do??? Anyone know of any high percentage and safe ones???

Im good at passing a think.....just not opening...
Thanks so much in advance for your time....appreciate it guys...

Noob
10-19-2007, 02:10 AM
Well....I need some help fellas so any info I can get......the better....

was rolling today and everything was goin great as usual...until I got teamed up with someone with some really long legs........

We were paired for a 3 min round and it absolutely sucked.......

We started with me in his closed guard and it ended there...it was basically one minute of me posturing up and trying to create space to pop open his guard, followed by 2 minutes of him bodytriangling me from the bottom...and I couldnt get the damn thing open!!!.......it was so frustrating!!....

what do you do in this position? I tend to have trouble popping the guards of long legged oppenents.... I wasnt in any danger really....because I really only had to be conscious about arm attacks and a standard guillotine...he never tried to sweep...and never unlocked his legs once!!.....

I just tried to get good posture..work my way down to his lower stomach often succesfully...knee in middle of butt....good balance.... but I couldnt push off....just to tight....

The only thing I could think of after the time was up was.... man.....I dint try a standing guard pass... Is this what I should do??? Anyone know of any high percentage and safe ones???

Im good at passing a think.....just not opening...
Thanks so much in advance for your time....appreciate it guys...



The only guard break that I know of from the body triangle is the helicopter pass. It would be a nightmare to try and explain by typing it out, and not really worth it since it's not very high percentage anyway.




Basically it's a stalling tactic. You can't break the guard, but he loses a large percentage of his attack options, both subs and sweeps. If someone wants to do that, it's hard to keep them from doing it. That's true for most stall tactics.



Watch Anderson Silva, he does this a lot.

ufobydeath
10-19-2007, 02:18 AM
Long legged guys can be a pain in the ass (I should know; I'm one of em). What I usually do is try to bait a submission from them and pass or counter when they go for it. It's risky but works well if you manage to get a good read on them.

On a related note: last time at training I was paired up with a new guy and I was designated to start from guard bottom. This guy didn't even try to pass but instead Rampage slammed me four times into the mat! I told him calmly that slamming like that was forbidden and his only answer was a Private Pyle-ish panting with the tounge half outside his mouth... freaks :banghead:

Noob
10-19-2007, 02:28 AM
On a related note: last time at training I was paired up with a new guy and I was designated to start from guard bottom. This guy didn't even try to pass but instead Rampage slammed me four times into the mat! I told him calmly that slamming like that was forbidden and his only answer was a Private Pyle-ish panting with the tounge half outside his mouth... freaks :banghead:


I've had that happen. What's worse is when you explain to them that doing that is not allowed and they act as though that were completely unfair. That bothers me.


List of common annoyances:

Slamming
Hands or in the face or throat
Pulling the fingers to break your grip
Death-gripping the gi and stiff-arming (especially annoying with really big guys who are content to do nothing else, just to stall).
General spaz behavior

ufobydeath
10-19-2007, 02:44 AM
I've had that happen. What's worse is when you explain to them that doing that is not allowed and they act as though that were completely unfair. That bothers me.


List of common annoyances:

Slamming
Hands or in the face or throat
Pulling the fingers to break your grip
Death-gripping the gi and stiff-arming (especially annoying with really big guys who are content to do nothing else, just to stall).
General spaz behavior

Hmm, check on all of the above :dry:
Worst thing about training submission wrestling is that people seem to think MMA rules apply just because there isn't a gi involved. Some people just shouldn't be let into the gyms :rtrp:

Noob
10-19-2007, 02:45 AM
Tsk, tsk. You get no more advice from me. Posting this thread here and at Sherdog. Uh-uh. :dry: For shame.

ufobydeath
10-19-2007, 02:55 AM
Tsk, tsk. You get no more advice from me. Posting this thread here and at Sherdog. Uh-uh. :dry: For shame.

Oooooo... not good :behindcouch:

kaiz77
10-19-2007, 03:56 AM
lol....I know I know....sherdog is filled with a bunch of idiots.....
Here was my way of thinking.....the more info I could get from more various viewpoints and levels of skill=the better..

What are you guys looking on sherdog for anyway...lol.....

thanks so much for the info!!....you know you guys are my number 1!!!

Noob
10-19-2007, 04:03 AM
lol....I know I know....sherdog is filled with a bunch of idiots.....



:dry:



What are you guys looking on sherdog for anyway...lol.....



Says the guilty man.




thanks so much for the info!!....you know you guys are my number 1!!!



You can't use that line. I have used that line on so many girlfriends (usually soon-to-be-exgirlfriends), and it's always when I knew I was in trouble.



For shame.

kaiz77
10-19-2007, 04:09 AM
lol........OK OK....I'll man up....you got me......Im sorry

Brandon
10-19-2007, 10:39 AM
Is it proper etiquette to lay your knee on someones face? There's a cop at my gym who did it to me, even though he outweighs me by about 70 oounds. I was expecting him to slap on a pair of handcuffs and read me my rights. I really didn't like how it made my lip cut open and got blood on my white gi.

In order to stay on topic, I'm also one of those long-legged guys. I usually don't go for the body triangle. Sometimes I'll use it to make them concentrate on unlocking my legs, then I'll drop'em down for a cross-over sweep. But if I get the back I do look for it.

initial_zen
10-19-2007, 02:39 PM
Well....I need some help fellas so any info I can get......the better....

was rolling today and everything was goin great as usual...until I got teamed up with someone with some really long legs........

We were paired for a 3 min round and it absolutely sucked.......

We started with me in his closed guard and it ended there...it was basically one minute of me posturing up and trying to create space to pop open his guard, followed by 2 minutes of him bodytriangling me from the bottom...and I couldnt get the damn thing open!!!.......it was so frustrating!!....

what do you do in this position? I tend to have trouble popping the guards of long legged oppenents.... I wasnt in any danger really....because I really only had to be conscious about arm attacks and a standard guillotine...he never tried to sweep...and never unlocked his legs once!!.....

I just tried to get good posture..work my way down to his lower stomach often succesfully...knee in middle of butt....good balance.... but I couldnt push off....just to tight....

The only thing I could think of after the time was up was.... man.....I dint try a standing guard pass... Is this what I should do??? Anyone know of any high percentage and safe ones???

Im good at passing a think.....just not opening...
Thanks so much in advance for your time....appreciate it guys...

had the same problem, started using standing passes. u posted this on lockflow too didnt u? wonder how many people on this site are registered on lockflow too.

Palma
10-19-2007, 08:44 PM
Well....I need some help fellas so any info I can get......the better....

was rolling today and everything was goin great as usual...until I got teamed up with someone with some really long legs........

We were paired for a 3 min round and it absolutely sucked.......

We started with me in his closed guard and it ended there...it was basically one minute of me posturing up and trying to create space to pop open his guard, followed by 2 minutes of him bodytriangling me from the bottom...and I couldnt get the damn thing open!!!.......it was so frustrating!!....

what do you do in this position? I tend to have trouble popping the guards of long legged oppenents.... I wasnt in any danger really....because I really only had to be conscious about arm attacks and a standard guillotine...he never tried to sweep...and never unlocked his legs once!!.....

I just tried to get good posture..work my way down to his lower stomach often succesfully...knee in middle of butt....good balance.... but I couldnt push off....just to tight....

The only thing I could think of after the time was up was.... man.....I dint try a standing guard pass... Is this what I should do??? Anyone know of any high percentage and safe ones???

Im good at passing a think.....just not opening...
Thanks so much in advance for your time....appreciate it guys...

There is a guy at my gym I always get paired up with that is 6'6" and I'm only 5'7.5" and he does this to me all the time. I actually go to my back and give him top mount and then he usually gives up the triangle so he can free up his body for more options with his subs, and that is when I escape...

I've also found spider gaurd works well against guys with long ass limbs.

ufobydeath
10-19-2007, 09:30 PM
Is it proper etiquette to lay your knee on someones face? There's a cop at my gym who did it to me, even though he outweighs me by about 70 oounds. I was expecting him to slap on a pair of handcuffs and read me my rights. I really didn't like how it made my lip cut open and got blood on my white gi.


Without buying you dinner first? Whatever happened to romance... :huh:

Then again... he is a cop. You're lucky he didn't sprinkle any crack on you

Brandon
10-19-2007, 09:56 PM
Without buying you dinner first? Whatever happened to romance... :huh:

Chivilary is dead.:samurai:

Frasedog
10-19-2007, 10:07 PM
Well....I need some help fellas so any info I can get......the better....

was rolling today and everything was goin great as usual...until I got teamed up with someone with some really long legs........

We were paired for a 3 min round and it absolutely sucked.......

We started with me in his closed guard and it ended there...it was basically one minute of me posturing up and trying to create space to pop open his guard, followed by 2 minutes of him bodytriangling me from the bottom...and I couldnt get the damn thing open!!!.......it was so frustrating!!....

what do you do in this position? I tend to have trouble popping the guards of long legged oppenents.... I wasnt in any danger really....because I really only had to be conscious about arm attacks and a standard guillotine...he never tried to sweep...and never unlocked his legs once!!.....

I just tried to get good posture..work my way down to his lower stomach often succesfully...knee in middle of butt....good balance.... but I couldnt push off....just to tight....

The only thing I could think of after the time was up was.... man.....I dint try a standing guard pass... Is this what I should do??? Anyone know of any high percentage and safe ones???

Im good at passing a think.....just not opening...
Thanks so much in advance for your time....appreciate it guys...
I would posture up, bury my fist in his abdomen and drive my elbows into his thighs just as if I'm breaking a closed guard. I'll also put one knee on his butt and bring the other back. Then push my hips back. If you feel comfortable you can use your hand to push one of his knees down, just watch the triangle and armbar attempts. Once his guard opens you have to shoot your knee through and pass to half guard quickly.

kaiz77
10-19-2007, 11:00 PM
Thanks everyone!!...great advice...I ll let you know how it goes...

BJJ Boy
10-20-2007, 02:10 AM
Opening the guard?! Theirs about 100000 solutions, So ill give you a few.

1) Grab onto his pants, put your knee in his butt then push with your arm and bring your body back, this should open him up.

2) This move is very cheap, and only works on people with weak legs. So what you do is you put you knee in his butt, and then put your elbow on his thigh anf the pain should make his legs fall apart.

3) Grab one arm, then stand up as straight as you can, then with your other arm push down on his leg.

Heres some videos:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pjf6nWawCC4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BQM3bGPJN0c
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NmM4MCxk8nE

Hope i helped!

Palma
10-20-2007, 02:17 AM
Opening the guard?! Theirs about 100000 solutions, So ill give you a few.

1) Grab onto his pants, put your knee in his butt then push with your arm and bring your body back, this should open him up.

2) This move is very cheap, and only works on people with weak legs. So what you do is you put you knee in his butt, and then put your elbow on his thigh anf the pain should make his legs fall apart.

3) Grab one arm, then stand up as straight as you can, then with your other arm push down on his leg.

Heres some videos:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pjf6nWawCC4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BQM3bGPJN0c
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NmM4MCxk8nE

Hope i helped!

These are great for closed gaurd, but I think he is talking about getting out of a body triangle.

BJJ Boy
10-20-2007, 02:35 PM
These are great for closed gaurd, but I think he is talking about getting out of a body triangle.


Oh, your right, he was talking about body triangle.
But these moves still work on the body triangle.

kaiz77
10-20-2007, 05:57 PM
I need help with both really....but I was talking about a body triangle originally....

great help....exactly what I need

Palma
10-21-2007, 03:19 AM
Oh, your right, he was talking about body triangle.
But these moves still work on the body triangle.

I'll try it out next time I'm in a triangle.. thanks man.

TravelinMonty
10-21-2007, 06:52 AM
There is a guy at my gym I always get paired up with that is 6'6" and I'm only 5'7.5" and he does this to me all the time. I actually go to my back and give him top mount and then he usually gives up the triangle so he can free up his body for more options with his subs, and that is when I escape...

I've also found spider gaurd works well against guys with long ass limbs.

5'7.5"???

Bahhhahha


How old are you? Twelve and three quarters?

Does that half inch make you feel less like a midget?

Noob
10-21-2007, 08:07 AM
5'7.5"???

Bahhhahha


How old are you? Twelve and three quarters?

Does that half inch make you feel less like a midget?



Do not bring your drama in here. I don't care what was said in the Politics forum, don't carry it over into here.


If you're not here to talk grappling, go somewhere else.

Palma
10-21-2007, 08:26 AM
5'7.5"???

Bahhhahha


How old are you? Twelve and three quarters?

Does that half inch make you feel less like a midget?

I'm Mexican man, what do you expect... besides BJJ and wrestling are considerd a short man's game.

kaiz77
10-24-2007, 12:54 AM
Thanks fellas....roll when amazing today....absolutely everything I tried worked....

and I started it off with a bit of humor...
first try at breaking guard.....I choose the pin biceps stand up knee in middle...sit back down.....presto knee is in perfectly....

this is where I hurt my training partner.......
weight forward...knee smashing his junk.....OWWOHHWHHHWHH....partner in pain rolling on floor.......me laughing....it worked!! it worked!!!

so needless to say...I didnt attempt that one again....but it worked.....

next came the marcelo behind the back try.......absolutely beautiful!!!...works perfectly....partner dropped like a sack of wet noodles...and I took his back immediately.... yippe Im getting to get the hang of this....lol

as for the body triangle....i found three things that worked and I felt comfertable doing...
first
twisting back and pushing down on his ankle sort of calf crusherish.....followed by extreme pained look on partner.....nice...

second..and my favorite...
I posted my elbow by my opponents neck on the mat...and quickly ran to the side opposite of the elbow planted (I know its not typically a position you want to be in) but when done quickly it turns him into a little ball...spine stretching......owwwwww....he lets go..........very effective

and lastly...
a canopener......now I dont ever like to do these...I see it as kind of a talentless dick move (no offense to the can opener gurus if there are some out there....lol) and its easy an armbar waiting to happen.....but I did it quick....knowing the armbar was coming.....first sign of legs opening...and I mean FIRST sign......and I rip my arms out of danger straight to double underhooks......ahhhhhh...safety....

so thanks for the info that I was given.....hope this will help others with similar problems also!!....
Go for the Marcelo pass..........its gorgeous....

Metalhead
10-24-2007, 01:19 AM
Rubbing your elbows inside the leg just above the knee opens it up unless the guy has worked them hard. It's a pressure point and damn effective to open up a guard so it should work on a body triangle.

Araevin
10-26-2007, 12:07 PM
i always use a standing gaurd pass against a body triangle...just make sure you control an arm so he cant grab ur ankles or attempt a sweep...

willieshatner
11-02-2007, 07:55 PM
its completely basic and I honestly never do it but have you tried a simple can opener??

there are much more graceful ways to open somebody's guard up but since nobody mentioned it yet I thought I'd throw it out there...

kaiz77
11-02-2007, 10:20 PM
Yeah can opener is OK.....just too easy to get armbarred when rolling against anyone with 5 months+ experience.....If I do attempt it.....it is a VERY last resort and I only do it for like 2 seconds or less....

NixHex
11-03-2007, 08:30 PM
Found my weakness this week. When rolling with a 7+ year vet (185 lb ) I made him work hard but while going for a triangle he passed my guard. He got me in side control and completely controlled me. I haven't felt so helpless since my first day of class. Any tips on ways to get my guard back from side control? Even back to half guard would have been fine, but he completely shut me down when I tried to get my leg under.

willieshatner
11-04-2007, 02:58 AM
Yeah can opener is OK.....just too easy to get armbarred when rolling against anyone with 5 months+ experience.....If I do attempt it.....it is a VERY last resort and I only do it for like 2 seconds or less....

yea well you can't armbar somebody without opening up your guard, right?

like I said I don't really use that technique but since nobody mentioned it yet I figured I'd throw it out

kaiz77
11-04-2007, 03:55 AM
right.....its just too risky IMO.....and if I wanted to be a dick I'd say.....a good armbar still should hold the person in your guard extremely close and practically still trapped.....

but I wont..........lol

sandywh
11-04-2007, 07:45 AM
Well....I need some help fellas so any info I can get......the better....

was rolling today and everything was goin great as usual...until I got teamed up with someone with some really long legs........

We were paired for a 3 min round and it absolutely sucked.......

We started with me in his closed guard and it ended there...it was basically one minute of me posturing up and trying to create space to pop open his guard, followed by 2 minutes of him bodytriangling me from the bottom...and I couldnt get the damn thing open!!!.......it was so frustrating!!....

what do you do in this position? I tend to have trouble popping the guards of long legged oppenents.... I wasnt in any danger really....because I really only had to be conscious about arm attacks and a standard guillotine...he never tried to sweep...and never unlocked his legs once!!.....

I just tried to get good posture..work my way down to his lower stomach often succesfully...knee in middle of butt....good balance.... but I couldnt push off....just to tight....

The only thing I could think of after the time was up was.... man.....I dint try a standing guard pass... Is this what I should do??? Anyone know of any high percentage and safe ones???

Im good at passing a think.....just not opening...
Thanks so much in advance for your time....appreciate it guys...
We have 2 guys that are 6'5"+ that train at our gym. I've seen the lead instructor turn a body triangle into a heel hook. He works to standing in the guard.Reaches back and and traps the free foot (takes some manuvering), then drops back to his knees. This typically forces the the foot under the knee to loosen or let go. Then he just sits back.

Now, I've seen him do this successfully at least half a dozen times, and he is crazy strong. But even whille attempting this, he's never really in a dangerous position. But its also not easy to pull off. If the guy is smart and keeps moving, its unlikely he ever gets hooked.

The only other escape I can think of is to leave an opening for a triangle choke and try to slip out the bottom.

Warrior Mac
12-05-2007, 01:19 AM
alot of people cart wheel over the guard. people who have long legs i find it easier to make space so i perfere to fight them

ScottS
12-05-2007, 07:01 AM
Someone who sits holding a closed guard body triangle for three minutes needs to stop being a dick and try to actually do something. After two minutes I would just hold posture and give them a "really?" look.

Mac, people at your gym cartwheel pass a lot?

ufobydeath
12-05-2007, 02:04 PM
Camel clutch.

Yeah, that one hurts

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/00/Edge-camel-clutch.jpg/215px-Edge-camel-clutch.jpg

Now, if only it didn't suck...