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Grapplepit28
10-26-2007, 07:52 PM
This has come up as a possibility recently as well as in the past, and Hughes has mentioned it more than once. What does everyone think? I know it seems that Anderson is unstoppable right now, but where do you guys think Matt's chances lie if he were to move up to 185?

TN94z
10-26-2007, 08:04 PM
I actually think Matt has a descent chance. I know I will get jumped for saying that. I mean Hughes is one of the best at takedowns. If he gets Silva on the ground, I think he can over power him. I know that Silva has a good ground game, but i think that Hughes is strong enough to counter that. That is just my opinion.

southsider
10-27-2007, 12:22 AM
I think Hughes has a chance, but definitely not the striking by far
We'll see how badly he beats Serra first

TN94z
10-27-2007, 12:45 AM
I totally agree with that. I don't see too many people in the UFC on Anderson's striking level.

Grapplepit28
10-27-2007, 03:51 AM
I totally agree with that. I don't see too many people in the UFC on Anderson's striking level.


I don't think there are many people anywhere that are on Anderson's striking level. That would definitely not be Hughes's gameplan here. As was mentioned earlier, Anderson has trouble with strong, agressive wrestlers with good grappling ability and ground and pound. I don't think there's anyone better than Hughes as far as that description goes. Rich's two biggest problems in his fights with Silva were his training camp and his being overpowered by Anderson's clinch and body control. Those are two areas where Hughes would not suffer. I've never had the chance to train with Hughes personally but from what I understand, there are not a lot of fighters anywhere as strong as he is, at any weight. I feel like Hughes would do a much better job than Rich at controlling Anderson's body and getting the fight to the ground. Then it would simply be Hughes and his incredible aggressive control from the top and legendary ground and pound versus Anderson and his very impressive, but not world class work on the ground. This would be a phenominal matchup of styles and probably the most interesting fight I can foresee in the near future for Anderson. If I had to bet against Silva, I think this is the matchup I would want. Let me know what you guys think.

southsider
10-27-2007, 05:20 AM
A.Silva's BJJ black belt though, we'll be able to hold his own on the ground. I don't how effective Hughes will be if he moves up a weight class, with A. Silva being a lean middleweight, and Hughes putting on weight.
...might slow him down. But you're right though, Hughes' GnP and wrestling are strong and could be the deciding factor.

DMoney
10-27-2007, 07:08 AM
I believe matt hughes would likely win the fight. I've said it before that if someone with great ground skills goes up against Anderson Silva they would beat him. Lutter exposed that when he fought him.Anderson Silva is very succeptable to the the takedown.He does have some ju-jitsu skills but not that much. I believe if Hughes gets him down Hughes would beat him down.

DMoney
10-27-2007, 07:14 AM
If Hughes doesn't beat Anderson Silva then in my opinion Dan Henderson will.I think Dan Henderson is alot stronger and more skilled with groung "n" pound then Hughes.

XitdiesXtodayX
10-27-2007, 05:33 PM
I really dont see how Hughes would stand a chance against Silva.The reach advantage Silva has on him is insane which would give Silva a even bigger advantage standing then he already had.Also Hughes may be good on the ground but Silvas no slouch either.I see this fight ending in round 2 via TKO by Silva.

error2k5
10-27-2007, 11:51 PM
I think by now matt realizes changing weightclasses to fight anderson silva may not be such a bright idea.

TN94z
10-28-2007, 05:46 PM
I really dont see how Hughes would stand a chance against Silva.The reach advantage Silva has on him is insane which would give Silva a even bigger advantage standing then he already had.Also Hughes may be good on the ground but Silvas no slouch either.I see this fight ending in round 2 via TKO by Silva.


The reach would help a little but Silva can't stop Hughes from taking him to the ground, so the reach won't play a big role. I mean Hughes is smart enough to know that he can't stand with Silva. Silva is no slouch on the ground but he can't compete with Hughes' strength.

TN94z
10-28-2007, 05:47 PM
I think by now matt realizes changing weightclasses to fight anderson silva may not be such a bright idea.

Why not? Hughes is on the way out anyway, so what does he have to lose? All he has to do is gain weight which means he will put on even more muscle...it may slow him down but not enough to make a difference.

Grapplepit28
10-28-2007, 07:54 PM
One thing that a lot of people may not realize is the incredible grip strength that Hughes has. Only a few grapplers in the world are at that level or higher. Weight does not play a big role in that; he's a natural freak as far as that's concerned. Even at 171 pounds, the lower limit for the weight class (and a weight that Hughes is already well over) I would dare say that he's stronger than anybody at 185 pounds.

leelandk
10-29-2007, 03:20 AM
An in-shape and motivated Matt Hughes can cause some serious damage. I definitely think he can win the first 2 rounds with wrestling and GnP, but in order for Hughes to win the fight, he would have to finish A.Silva.

It would be damned hard for Hughes to completely avoid the striking game for 5 full rounds. Sooner or later A.Silva is going to find his range and put Hughes away.

TN94z
10-29-2007, 04:54 PM
An in-shape and motivated Matt Hughes can cause some serious damage. I definitely think he can win the first 2 rounds with wrestling and GnP, but in order for Hughes to win the fight, he would have to finish A.Silva.

It would be damned hard for Hughes to completely avoid the striking game for 5 full rounds. Sooner or later A.Silva is going to find his range and put Hughes away.


I don't know about him putting him away, but he will find his range....quickly. And we all know that Silva is very accurate with his punches. If Hughes can't keep him on the ground then there really is no chance that he can win. But I think that Hughes can keep him on the ground for most of the fight.

error2k5
11-03-2007, 02:38 AM
Why not? Hughes is on the way out anyway, so what does he have to lose? All he has to do is gain weight which means he will put on even more muscle...it may slow him down but not enough to make a difference.

That's the point. He's on his way out. Why risk one of those fights taking on one of the most devestating strikers in the UFC. If he enters the octagon with his ego about him like he did with GSP and get's it in his mind he can actually stand up with him then it's over sooner rather than later.

I know anderson isn't matt hughes when it comes to the ground game but I think people are underestimating him due to the lutter fight. Slapping on a triangle and making a world class wrestler tapp after you had knee surgery dosen't translate to an awful ground game.

dbader08
11-03-2007, 04:33 AM
An in-shape and motivated Matt Hughes can cause some serious damage. I definitely think he can win the first 2 rounds with wrestling and GnP, but in order for Hughes to win the fight, he would have to finish A.Silva.

It would be damned hard for Hughes to completely avoid the striking game for 5 full rounds. Sooner or later A.Silva is going to find his range and put Hughes away.

Hughes would be better in the later rounds as he has insane cardio

And yes Silva would find his range and end it, probably early.

Even if hughes took the fight to the ground i do not think he would be able to do signifigant damage. Silva is very Squirmy with excellent Jiu-Jitsu Counters

If hughes beats serra, moving up to fight silva would be incredibly stupid IMO.

TN94z
11-05-2007, 02:27 PM
That's the point. He's on his way out. Why risk one of those fights taking on one of the most devestating strikers in the UFC. If he enters the octagon with his ego about him like he did with GSP and get's it in his mind he can actually stand up with him then it's over sooner rather than later.

I know anderson isn't matt hughes when it comes to the ground game but I think people are underestimating him due to the lutter fight. Slapping on a triangle and making a world class wrestler tapp after you had knee surgery dosen't translate to an awful ground game.


Why risk it? It he wins the title in WW then what's left before he leaves? I mean most fighters that are true fighters want to fight the best to test themselves. Why not risk it? He has nothing to lose but a fight. He won't lose the WW title because of it. I think there is no doubt in his mind that he can't stand with Silva. GSP and Silva are two different animals as far as striking. He tapped Lutter from elbows not the triangle. He couldn't get the triangle tight. The knee surgery obviously didn't bother him too bad. If he wasn't confident then he wouldn't have fought. So the knee thing had no effect. And I didn't say his ground game was awful...I mean the guy is a Black belt, although many people question the black belt.

TN94z
11-05-2007, 02:30 PM
Hughes would be better in the later rounds as he has insane cardio

And yes Silva would find his range and end it, probably early.

Even if hughes took the fight to the ground i do not think he would be able to do signifigant damage. Silva is very Squirmy with excellent Jiu-Jitsu Counters

If hughes beats serra, moving up to fight silva would be incredibly stupid IMO.


You don't think that Gracie had excellent BJJ counters? He is one of the best in the world as far as anything BJJ goes. Hughes took him apart. So that point is moot. I actually think if Hughes beats Serra and GSP(which I don't think he will), that it would be a great idea to fight Silva. If he loses, who cares. Most people are starting not to like him anyway. If he wins, look at what he would have accomplished.

rivethead
11-05-2007, 04:01 PM
The reach would help a little but Silva can't stop Hughes from taking him to the ground, so the reach won't play a big role. I mean Hughes is smart enough to know that he can't stand with Silva. Silva is no slouch on the ground but he can't compete with Hughes' strength.

Anderson Silva is stronger than Hughes.


One thing that a lot of people may not realize is the incredible grip strength that Hughes has. Only a few grapplers in the world are at that level or higher. Weight does not play a big role in that; he's a natural freak as far as that's concerned. Even at 171 pounds, the lower limit for the weight class (and a weight that Hughes is already well over) I would dare say that he's stronger than anybody at 185 pounds.

one thing that you may not realize is Matt is fighting guys smaller than him or his size. Even if he walks around at 185 and cuts to get to WW, you should realize Silva cuts from closer to 200. Franklin, who is clearly stronger than Hughes, was stunned by how strong Silva is. He mentioned that, and said he severely underestimated how strong he was.

Matt Hughes is strong, but he's not stronger than "anybody at 185." That's just being silly.


You don't think that Gracie had excellent BJJ counters? He is one of the best in the world as far as anything BJJ goes. Hughes took him apart. So that point is moot. I actually think if Hughes beats Serra and GSP(which I don't think he will), that it would be a great idea to fight Silva. If he loses, who cares. Most people are starting not to like him anyway. If he wins, look at what he would have accomplished.

Please don't compare a 40-year-old Gracie, who hadn't fought in the octagon in 10 years, and had never competed under the current UFC rules, to Silva, who is in his prime. Gracie is undisputably a legend, but I really think that fight was about money, and not much else.

I understand that dream matches inevitably boil down to MMA math, but to use Gracie to base your equation on how well Hughes would fare against a BJJ BB is faulty logic. Silva is stronger than Gracie, and stronger than Hughes. Gracie was always a purist, focusing on GJJ. Silva has some of the best striking we've seen in any weight class, and is an absolute phenom at MW.

You would be smarter to point out that Hughes has faced both great striking and great ground in BJ Penn. While Penn doesn't have Silva's KO power or his strength, and can't come close to his reach, BJ does have better TDD than Anderson. I also shouldn't have to point out that BJ owned Matt in their first fight, and was winning the first two rounds before he seperated his rib in the second.

If it does go to the ground, Marquardt is far stronger than Hughes [and is stronger than Silva] and Nate has as good GnP as Matt. So there's no guarantee there, either.

I think Matt has a chance, and I think it would be an interesting fight, but he'd literally need to catch lightning in a bottle for him to pull off a win. And it would be an upset.

rh

Grapplepit28
11-05-2007, 04:49 PM
[QUOTE=rivethead]Anderson Silva is stronger than Hughes.



"one thing that you may not realize is Matt is fighting guys smaller than him or his size. Even if he walks around at 185 and cuts to get to WW, you should realize Silva cuts from closer to 200. Franklin, who is clearly stronger than Hughes, was stunned by how strong Silva is. He mentioned that, and said he severely underestimated how strong he was.

Matt Hughes is strong, but he's not stronger than "anybody at 185." That's just being silly."


Actually, A Silva does not cut from 200 pounds. He is naturally 183-184 pounds. It has been well documented that he is one of very few fighters who does not cut weight before his fights.

Also, when I say Hughes is stronger than a lot of fighters, I'm not talking about how much they can bench press. I'm talking about actual 'Grip Strength' in grappling. This is something that's not affected by size and weight. Hughes grapples with guys who are 60-70 pounds heavier than he is and they are constantly amazed at how strong he is. Hughes really has not been outworked on the ground by anybody other than BJ penn in their first fight (and hughes later came back and pounded out penn in their 2nd fight) and he's been fighting very actively at the highest level for almost eight years now.

TN94z
11-05-2007, 05:13 PM
Please don't compare a 40-year-old Gracie, who hadn't fought in the octagon in 10 years, and had never competed under the current UFC rules, to Silva, who is in his prime. Gracie is undisputably a legend, but I really think that fight was about money, and not much else.

I understand that dream matches inevitably boil down to MMA math, but to use Gracie to base your equation on how well Hughes would fare against a BJJ BB is faulty logic. Silva is stronger than Gracie, and stronger than Hughes. Gracie was always a purist, focusing on GJJ. Silva has some of the best striking we've seen in any weight class, and is an absolute phenom at MW.

You would be smarter to point out that Hughes has faced both great striking and great ground in BJ Penn. While Penn doesn't have Silva's KO power or his strength, and can't come close to his reach, BJ does have better TDD than Anderson. I also shouldn't have to point out that BJ owned Matt in their first fight, and was winning the first two rounds before he seperated his rib in the second.

If it does go to the ground, Marquardt is far stronger than Hughes [and is stronger than Silva] and Nate has as good GnP as Matt. So there's no guarantee there, either.

I think Matt has a chance, and I think it would be an interesting fight, but he'd literally need to catch lightning in a bottle for him to pull off a win. And it would be an upset.

rh


Who said that Gracie could strike with Silva??? Not me. I was referring to his BJJ counters on the ground. I am sure that even as old as Gracie is, Silva's BJJ is not on his level. I mean Silva's JJ has been questioned his entire career...many saying that he is not a true Black belt. Everyone wants to defend that with the Lutter fight, but why? I mean he got caught in an elementary arm bar (althought Lutter didn't get it locked), and he couldn't sinch the triangle when he had the perfect opportunity. Those are two of the basics. I would put Hughes' strength against Silva's any day. Franklin said that Silva was strong in the Clinch. Did you see the last fight? Almost every time Silva tried for the clinch, Franklin threw his arms off like he was nothing. I just don't think he is as strong as Hughes. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Hughes is a better fighter because I don't think there are too many that are better than Silva right now. I just think that Hughes has a descent chance to beat him...assuming Hughes takes the fight seriously and doesn't try to stand with him.

rivethead
11-05-2007, 07:06 PM
Actually, A Silva does not cut from 200 pounds. He is naturally 183-184 pounds. It has been well documented that he is one of very few fighters who does not cut weight before his fights.

Also, when I say Hughes is stronger than a lot of fighters, I'm not talking about how much they can bench press. I'm talking about actual 'Grip Strength' in grappling. This is something that's not affected by size and weight. Hughes grapples with guys who are 60-70 pounds heavier than he is and they are constantly amazed at how strong he is. Hughes really has not been outworked on the ground by anybody other than BJ penn in their first fight (and hughes later came back and pounded out penn in their 2nd fight) and he's been fighting very actively at the highest level for almost eight years now.

I've read where Silva walks around at 190 during training. I haven't read where he doesn't cut at all. I understand what you referred to as grip strength, it's what shocked Franklin so much in the first fight with Silva. Unquestionably Rich can bench more than Anderson, but he got owned in the clinch.

Just for the record...Hughes came back to "pound out" an injured Penn in their second fight. Matt was getting owned in the second fight as well, till BJ seperated the rib. I'm not taking anything away from Hughes, he's been a great champion, but if he fought Silva 10 times, he might win 2 of them.


Who said that Gracie could strike with Silva??? Not me. I was referring to his BJJ counters on the ground. I am sure that even as old as Gracie is, Silva's BJJ is not on his level. I mean Silva's JJ has been questioned his entire career...many saying that he is not a true Black belt. Everyone wants to defend that with the Lutter fight, but why? I mean he got caught in an elementary arm bar (althought Lutter didn't get it locked), and he couldn't sinch the triangle when he had the perfect opportunity. Those are two of the basics. I would put Hughes' strength against Silva's any day. Franklin said that Silva was strong in the Clinch. Did you see the last fight? Almost every time Silva tried for the clinch, Franklin threw his arms off like he was nothing. I just don't think he is as strong as Hughes. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Hughes is a better fighter because I don't think there are too many that are better than Silva right now. I just think that Hughes has a descent chance to beat him...assuming Hughes takes the fight seriously and doesn't try to stand with him.

I didn't imply that Gracie's striking should be compared to Silvas. I did imply that Silva's BJJ should be favorably compared to Gracies...at Gracie's current level.

Again, Gracie is a legend, but he's well past his prime. I'm a huge Gracie fan, and I was deeply saddened that he even took the fight with Hughes. Royce was never well-rounded, and he dominated when rules were far more lax than they are today. Not only has he lost a step, the sport has passed him by. When he came out with every inch of the gi covered with sponsors, I got the feeling it was more about paying a mortgage than actually beating Hughes.

As far as questioning Silva's BJJ using the Lutter fight, I'd question the logic, as he'd just come off surgery in both knees. That would more than negatively effect the ability to cinch [not sinch] the triangle. And the fact that he "almost" got caught in an armbar means he's not a "real" BB? Did getting caught in the triangle invalidate Lutter's BJJ?

Again, it's just opinions, so we can agree to disagree, but if Hughes and Silva fought 10 times, Matt would be lucky to win twice.

You can question Silva's skill on the ground all you want. So did Nate Marquardt. Note the past tense.

rh

Noob
11-05-2007, 07:58 PM
Franklin said that Silva was strong in the Clinch. Did you see the last fight? Almost every time Silva tried for the clinch, Franklin threw his arms off like he was nothing.



I don't think I was watching the same fight.


Franklin did a better job of staying out of the clinch in the second fight, but he didn't "throw [Silva] off like he was nothing." Far from it. He got beat, just not as mercilessly as in the first fight.


In fact, if I remember right, it was knees from the clinch that ended the fight.

TN94z
11-05-2007, 08:34 PM
I didn't imply that Gracie's striking should be compared to Silvas. I did imply that Silva's BJJ should be favorably compared to Gracies...at Gracie's current level.

Again, Gracie is a legend, but he's well past his prime. I'm a huge Gracie fan, and I was deeply saddened that he even took the fight with Hughes. Royce was never well-rounded, and he dominated when rules were far more lax than they are today. Not only has he lost a step, the sport has passed him by. When he came out with every inch of the gi covered with sponsors, I got the feeling it was more about paying a mortgage than actually beating Hughes.

As far as questioning Silva's BJJ using the Lutter fight, I'd question the logic, as he'd just come off surgery in both knees. That would more than negatively effect the ability to cinch [not sinch] the triangle. And the fact that he "almost" got caught in an armbar means he's not a "real" BB? Did getting caught in the triangle invalidate Lutter's BJJ?

Again, it's just opinions, so we can agree to disagree, but if Hughes and Silva fought 10 times, Matt would be lucky to win twice.

You can question Silva's skill on the ground all you want. So did Nate Marquardt. Note the past tense.

rh

I still don't think Silva could beat Gracie in a grappling match. Knee surgery, knee surgery......if it was going to be a factor then he wouldn't have taken the fight. Enough with the knee surgery. So cinch or sinch.....is my intelligence being quesitoned now? I didn't say that getting caught in an arm bar doesn't make him a BB...I said that many people have questioned his BB status. A BJJ BB gets caught in submissions no doubt, but they should also be able to finish something as elementary as a triangle when you have it locked it like that. Its not that his knees wouldn't allow him to CINCH it, its that he obvioulsy didn't know that the arm must be pulled across the chest to finish off the move. If he would have pulled Lutter's arm across then the fight would have ended in submission....again, elementary for a BB?

MasterShake
11-05-2007, 08:36 PM
I don't think I was watching the same fight.


Franklin did a better job of staying out of the clinch in the second fight, but he didn't "throw [Silva] off like he was nothing." Far from it. He got beat, just not as mercilessly as in the first fight.


In fact, if I remember right, it was knees from the clinch that ended the fight.


Yah your right Noob Franklin did do better but was no where near throwing anything of Silva's of him like it was nothing. I just cant see Hughes having a chance, he is a great WW champ, but he would be destroyed by Silva, he is way to strong plus his reach he would pick Hughes apart. Then if Hughes ended up getting caught in the clinch it could be life threatning because Hughes is so much shorter.
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u105/JimMIj408/anderson-silva_rich-franklin2.gif

TN94z
11-05-2007, 08:38 PM
I don't think I was watching the same fight.


Franklin did a better job of staying out of the clinch in the second fight, but he didn't "throw [Silva] off like he was nothing." Far from it. He got beat, just not as mercilessly as in the first fight.


In fact, if I remember right, it was knees from the clinch that ended the fight.

He didn't throw Silva across the ring, but if he was so strong then Franklin wouldn't have been able to just throw his arms off like he did. He did get beat...beat very badly. I don't think he was in the "Clinch" per per say...the clinch happened after a few seconds of dirty boxing, holding the head with one hand and punch him in the face with other. That basically got him and that is when Silva got the clinch and knee'd him out. I could have held the clinch with Franklin in that state. Iif so, that was after he was knocked senseless in the first round. Franklin didn't have a clue the second round. Once again, don't get me wrong...I am a big Silva fan and think he is the best in the game right now. I am just making a case that Hughes has a chance.

TN94z
11-05-2007, 08:40 PM
Yah your right Noob Franklin did do better but was no where near throwing anything of Silva's of him like it was nothing. I just cant see Hughes having a chance, he is a great WW champ, but he would be destroyed by Silva, he is way to strong plus his reach he would pick Hughes apart. Then if Hughes ended up getting caught in the clinch it could be life threatning because Hughes is so much shorter.
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u105/JimMIj408/anderson-silva_rich-franklin2.gif

I would think that being shorter in the clinch would be an advantage? From what I saw in my Muay Thai classes it seemed to be an advantage. Silva is strong in the clinch, but overall he is not stronger than Hughes.

TN94z
11-05-2007, 08:42 PM
Okay, I admit I was exaggerating on throwing him around like he was nothing, but until he got dazed, Silva couldn't hold the clinch on him. That is what I saw.

MasterShake
11-05-2007, 08:53 PM
I would think that being shorter in the clinch would be an advantage? From what I saw in my Muay Thai classes it seemed to be an advantage. Silva is strong in the clinch, but overall he is not stronger than Hughes.


I would get a new teacher then, the taller person is going to inflict more damage when using knees it is leverage working against the smaller guy, the taller the person is the higher he cann throw knees, and the shorter the person is makes it the less distance for the knee to travel before it makes contact thereofore the more time it has to inflict damage on the follow thru. It simple physics man, Hughes would get destroyed in the clench, especially against someone that uses there knees as good as Silva anyways. Hughes is strong but I would wager that Silva is stronger.

TN94z
11-05-2007, 09:02 PM
From what I saw when the shorter guy was in the clinch with a taller guy the smaller guy had more leverage to push the taller guys clinch away. I know that it is easier for the taller guys to get the knees up on a shorter guy...anyone can see that. I am speaking in terms of getting out of the clinch. Part of the clinch is pulling the guy in and holding him with your hands clasped and forearms on the chest, right? So the taller guy has to make more of an effort to hold on to the shorter man because he has to hold on with his hands only.

MasterShake
11-05-2007, 09:11 PM
Your almost right, when the taller guy has his hands rapped around the opponents neck it is when the taller fighter leans over top and pushes the weight on top of his opponents head and neck is what makes it harder for the smaller guy, his only option being smaller would be to drop to the ground which no fighter would do that. MOst of the clench is all fingers and hands to hold the guys head they dont rest there elbows on the guys sholders or anything.
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd245/grapplegoddess/Basfest/silvasmall.jpg

TN94z
11-05-2007, 09:50 PM
Okay. I was thinking that the forearms held pressure too. It has been a while. But it did seem that the shorter guys were getting out of the clinch more easily in class. Either way, I agree that Hughes would be killed in the clinch with Silva. I'm not denying that. But that wouldn't be part of Hughes' game plan either. His one and only game plan is taking him down and keeping him down....you would hope.

rivethead
11-06-2007, 01:26 AM
I still don't think Silva could beat Gracie in a grappling match. Knee surgery, knee surgery......if it was going to be a factor then he wouldn't have taken the fight. Enough with the knee surgery. So cinch or sinch.....is my intelligence being quesitoned now? I didn't say that getting caught in an arm bar doesn't make him a BB...I said that many people have questioned his BB status. A BJJ BB gets caught in submissions no doubt, but they should also be able to finish something as elementary as a triangle when you have it locked it like that. Its not that his knees wouldn't allow him to CINCH it, its that he obvioulsy didn't know that the arm must be pulled across the chest to finish off the move. If he would have pulled Lutter's arm across then the fight would have ended in submission....again, elementary for a BB?

Lighten up Francis. Nobody is questioning your intelligence...you made a elementary error, I corrected it.

Royce would fare much better against Anderson in a pure grappling match than he did against Hughes at UFC 60. I still don't know that he'd win, but that doesn't negate my point. You were using the Hughes/Gracie fight to illustrate how Hughes would fare against Silva, and I was pointing out that Silva has more than just BJJ, he's an elite striker. I made the counter point in bringing up Penn, as being more apt, pertaining to the original argument. Again, I don't know that Royce would win, but I do know MMA isn't a pure grappling match, and while it makes up 95% of Gracie's arsenal, it's only 50% of Silvas.

You then questioned Silva's BB status--or if you don't want to take credit for questioning it yourself--you actually said "many people" have questioned his BB status. You then used the elementary armbar as the first example after that statement. If you weren't using that as an example to his BB into question, I'm not sure why you put it in there at all. I'm glad we can agree that it has nothing to do with him having BJJ though.

So "many people" have questioned Anderson's BB status? For his "whole career?" Well, "many people" buy Brittney Spears CD's and it doesn't make them smart and/or informed. Silva earned his belt from the Nogieras Anyone who thinks they give out joke belts should post at Sherdog, [and probably owns a lot of Brittney Spears CD's]. Just because some clueless jackass starts a bullshit rumor doesn't mean it needs to be repeated.

As far as not pulling the arm across to secure the triangle, it's always easy to quarterback from the armchair. Everybody makes mistakes in fights, but not everybody can learn from them. It still doesn't negate his BB, which he earned from one of the most reputable schools in the industry. And again, Silva did fine on the ground against Marquardt, who has better BJJ and as good of ground as Hughes, with far more power.

Knee surgery wasn't a factor in the Lutter fight? I can't imagine anyone with the heart and skill to become champion NOT fighting if there was even a chance of them winning, and I can't imagine anyone who trains at that level going into a fight 100% unhurt. I can't imagine that knee surgery didn't play some role in his performance. If you can, good luck to you.

rh

TN94z
11-06-2007, 04:04 PM
Lighten up Francis. Nobody is questioning your intelligence...you made a elementary error, I corrected it.

Royce would fare much better against Anderson in a pure grappling match than he did against Hughes at UFC 60. I still don't know that he'd win, but that doesn't negate my point. You were using the Hughes/Gracie fight to illustrate how Hughes would fare against Silva, and I was pointing out that Silva has more than just BJJ, he's an elite striker. I made the counter point in bringing up Penn, as being more apt, pertaining to the original argument. Again, I don't know that Royce would win, but I do know MMA isn't a pure grappling match, and while it makes up 95% of Gracie's arsenal, it's only 50% of Silvas.

You then questioned Silva's BB status--or if you don't want to take credit for questioning it yourself--you actually said "many people" have questioned his BB status. You then used the elementary armbar as the first example after that statement. If you weren't using that as an example to his BB into question, I'm not sure why you put it in there at all. I'm glad we can agree that it has nothing to do with him having BJJ though.

So "many people" have questioned Anderson's BB status? For his "whole career?" Well, "many people" buy Brittney Spears CD's and it doesn't make them smart and/or informed. Silva earned his belt from the Nogieras Anyone who thinks they give out joke belts should post at Sherdog, [and probably owns a lot of Brittney Spears CD's]. Just because some clueless jackass starts a bullshit rumor doesn't mean it needs to be repeated.

As far as not pulling the arm across to secure the triangle, it's always easy to quarterback from the armchair. Everybody makes mistakes in fights, but not everybody can learn from them. It still doesn't negate his BB, which he earned from one of the most reputable schools in the industry. And again, Silva did fine on the ground against Marquardt, who has better BJJ and as good of ground as Hughes, with far more power.

Knee surgery wasn't a factor in the Lutter fight? I can't imagine anyone with the heart and skill to become champion NOT fighting if there was even a chance of them winning, and I can't imagine anyone who trains at that level going into a fight 100% unhurt. I can't imagine that knee surgery didn't play some role in his performance. If you can, good luck to you.

rh

There you go again...Francis, that's cute.:laughing4: DamienMasters has also made some "elementary mistakes" but I haven't seen you say anything about those. No I wasn't. Someone posted up that Silva's BJJ counters were too good and he was very slippery on the ground and that Hughes couldn't keep him down. I only brought up Gracie because he beat Gracie and Gracie has as good as or better BJJ counters than Silva. Not once did I compare Gracie's all around game to Silva's all around game. Who am I am to question Anderson Silva's BB in BJJ? I am just stating that I have read on this board that people in MMA have questioned whether or not he is a true BB. I have heard the announcers in the UFC also state this. Not my opinion because I have no room to talk on that subject. It is east to quarter back from the arm chair, Britney..you are right everyone does make mistakes, but when a BB in BJJ attempts a triangle without doing it correctly then what is that? That is like trying a rear naked choke but forgetting to squeeze. Every fighter does come in the fight hurt..no doubt, but if the knees were that big of a factor then he wouldn't have fought. And one more suggestion....try replying like a normal human being. Everyone here has the right to state their opinion in any thread here...just because you have a high post count doesn't give you the right to be a D***!!!!!

TN94z
11-06-2007, 04:06 PM
Hughes would be better in the later rounds as he has insane cardio

And yes Silva would find his range and end it, probably early.

Even if hughes took the fight to the ground i do not think he would be able to do signifigant damage. Silva is very Squirmy with excellent Jiu-Jitsu Counters

If hughes beats serra, moving up to fight silva would be incredibly stupid IMO.


Here is the post I was replying to just in case you skipped to the end to throw in your two cents.

TN94z
11-06-2007, 04:08 PM
You don't think that Gracie had excellent BJJ counters? He is one of the best in the world as far as anything BJJ goes. Hughes took him apart. So that point is moot. I actually think if Hughes beats Serra and GSP(which I don't think he will), that it would be a great idea to fight Silva. If he loses, who cares. Most people are starting not to like him anyway. If he wins, look at what he would have accomplished.


And here is my reply. Where in this reply do I state that Gracie is as good as Silva all around? It looks to me like I was just talking about Gracie's BJJ counters....not the striking.

TN94z
11-06-2007, 04:13 PM
So "many people" have questioned Anderson's BB status? For his "whole career?" Well, "many people" buy Brittney Spears CD's and it doesn't make them smart and/or informed. Silva earned his belt from the Nogieras Anyone who thinks they give out joke belts should post at Sherdog, [and probably owns a lot of Brittney Spears CD's]. Just because some clueless jackass starts a bullshit rumor doesn't mean it needs to be repeated.



You don't like Britney Spears??? The "whole career" was a little out of line, I agree. Can you spell "Nogueira" again for me please? I didn't say they gave out joke belts. I just remember reading that in the past. I hope that by clueless jackass you weren't directing that toward me? I see many bullshit rumors repeated on this board...why not hit them all?

MasterShake
11-06-2007, 04:49 PM
There you go again...Francis, that's cute.:laughing4: DamienMasters has also made some "elementary mistakes" but I haven't seen you say anything about those. No I wasn't. Someone posted up that Silva's BJJ counters were too good and he was very slippery on the ground and that Hughes couldn't keep him down. I only brought up Gracie because he beat Gracie and Gracie has as good as or better BJJ counters than Silva. Not once did I compare Gracie's all around game to Silva's all around game. Who am I am to question Anderson Silva's BB in BJJ? I am just stating that I have read on this board that people in MMA have questioned whether or not he is a true BB. I have heard the announcers in the UFC also state this. Not my opinion because I have no room to talk on that subject. It is east to quarter back from the arm chair, Britney..you are right everyone does make mistakes, but when a BB in BJJ attempts a triangle without doing it correctly then what is that? That is like trying a rear naked choke but forgetting to squeeze. Every fighter does come in the fight hurt..no doubt, but if the knees were that big of a factor then he wouldn't have fought. And one more suggestion....try replying like a normal human being. Everyone here has the right to state their opinion in any thread here...just because you have a high post count doesn't give you the right to be a D***!!!!!





You don't like Britney Spears??? The "whole career" was a little out of line, I agree. Can you spell "Nogueira" again for me please? I didn't say they gave out joke belts. I just remember reading that in the past. I hope that by clueless jackass you weren't directing that toward me? I see many bullshit rumors repeated on this board...why not hit them all?
QUOTE=TN94z]And here is my reply. Where in this reply do I state that Gracie is as good as Silva all around? It looks to me like I was just talking about Gracie's BJJ counters....not the striking.[/QUOTE]


Here is the post I was replying to just in case you skipped to the end to throw in your two cents.


You seriously need to calm down, I think you dont know what the hell your talking about, do you think about what you type, and what elementary mistakes have I made, I mean dude five post in a row as Rivethead once told me learn how to use your edit button you don't have to post eight things in a row just because you put more post then anyone else does not make you right, you need to jump off of Matt Hughes tractor pipe man, there is no chance he could compete against Silva, the only thing he would win at is a wrestling match. Silva is far to good at everything. He is to strong has way to much reach and he would tap Hughes if he didn't Knock him out first, just get over it, Hughes is good in his weight class but no where as good as Silva. I also think Rivethead is only being a dick because certain people do not know how to except facts when there stated politely. Go Rivethead.!!!

TN94z
11-06-2007, 05:03 PM
I am very calm. I don't know what the hell I am talking about.....That is yet another smartass remark. What are you guys thinking? Can you not have a conversation without trying to put someone down or question their intelligence? Do you know me? I am just taking up for myself. I am a huge Silva fan and think that he would win the fight. I am just expressing MY OPINION that Hughes has a chance. Does every fighter not have a chance in a fight? He pointed out my elementary mistake of mispelling...you had a mispelled word as well. I made that many posts in a row so it wouldn't be one long post. Give me a break. I mean how do you expect to get new members and have a good reputation if every time someone new posts THEIR OPINION, you guys bust their balls about it. I am just here trying to reply to a thread about Hughes v. Silva. I am not upset about anything but don't dish it out if you can't take it. It's all in fun and games and then you have someone come in saying calm down Francis, and hey that is mispelled, etc..that just gets the snow ball rolling. Why point out a mispelled word for any reason other than being a smartass? I mean this is a message board not an English class. You guys need to take it easy. And as far as being on Matt Hughes tractor pipe(I want start on that remark), I don't really even like Hughes, but i think he is good. I think he is a smartass with a big ego.

GO TN94Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TN94z
11-06-2007, 05:13 PM
Okay, before this gets any further I want to apologize to anyone that I may have offended. I guess I took some comments the wrong way and ran with them. We all know that sometimes texts and words can be taken in different ways depending on how it was read. I misinterpreted some replies and responded in a way that I shouldn't have. Once again I apologize and don't want any hard feelings. I like talking MMA and don't want to chance removal from the board. I am a man and can admit when I was in the wrong.

MasterShake
11-06-2007, 05:24 PM
I am very calm. I don't know what the hell I am talking about.....That is yet another smartass remark. What are you guys thinking? Can you not have a conversation without trying to put someone down or question their intelligence? Do you know me? I am just taking up for myself. I am a huge Silva fan and think that he would win the fight. I am just expressing MY OPINION that Hughes has a chance. Does every fighter not have a chance in a fight? He pointed out my elementary mistake of mispelling...you had a mispelled word as well. I made that many posts in a row so it wouldn't be one long post. Give me a break. I mean how do you expect to get new members and have a good reputation if every time someone new posts THEIR OPINION, you guys bust their balls about it. I am just here trying to reply to a thread about Hughes v. Silva. I am not upset about anything but don't dish it out if you can't take it. It's all in fun and games and then you have someone come in saying calm down Francis, and hey that is mispelled, etc..that just gets the snow ball rolling. Why point out a mispelled word for any reason other than being a smartass? I mean this is a message board not an English class. You guys need to take it easy. And as far as being on Matt Hughes tractor pipe(I want start on that remark), I don't really even like Hughes, but i think he is good. I think he is a smartass with a big ego.

GO TN94Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The post thing was advice more then anything, the MODS don't like you posting multiple threads, you will get negative REP for that shit. Me saying calm down was also advice, the people that have continuous conversations with eachother in here stick together you will learn that. Me saying you don't know what and the hell your talking about was just that I am glad your a Silva fan, this is also a post and i would suggest learning how to take smart ass comments when your posting comments to a bunch of smart ass people, I will totally agree with you on the point this is not English class some people are just anal about that stuff don't let it get to you, and the tractor pipe comment you may not be sitting on it I'll take that back but I still say it was pretty damn funny sitting on Matt Hughes tractor pipe thats good stuff.

TN94z
11-06-2007, 06:02 PM
The post thing was advice more then anything, the MODS don't like you posting multiple threads, you will get negative REP for that shit. Me saying calm down was also advice, the people that have continuous conversations with eachother in here stick together you will learn that. Me saying you don't know what and the hell your talking about was just that I am glad your a Silva fan, this is also a post and i would suggest learning how to take smart ass comments when your posting comments to a bunch of smart ass people, I will totally agree with you on the point this is not English class some people are just anal about that stuff don't let it get to you, and the tractor pipe comment you may not be sitting on it I'll take that back but I still say it was pretty damn funny sitting on Matt Hughes tractor pipe thats good stuff.

Yeah that was a good one. I will take the advice and use it in the future.