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bigc
08-30-2006, 02:59 AM
ortiz vs. babalu who wins?

Highlander
08-30-2006, 03:02 AM
ortiz split decision. He GnP for a while but Babalu might get him in a submission. It would be on hell of a fight.

Luis Cruz
08-30-2006, 03:02 AM
There is a dream match forum here, put these there please.

rugoatee
08-31-2006, 04:01 AM
ortiz vs. babalu who wins?
Great question. Have thought about this one for a while. I am a big Babalu fan but trying to be objective, I would say Babalu would take it. Tito does have a great GnP but who is the last fighter Tito fought with a great guard? I believe Belfort is supposed to be good at BJJ but he looked unimpressive in that fight. I can't think of anyone that Tito has fought that is a real submission threat. Because of this, I think Babalu would give him a get fight and eventually score a submission.

I would love to see Tito fight a real submission artist like a Babalu or a Jeremy horn. Think it would make for a great fight.

Legend
08-31-2006, 04:03 AM
How many times has this thread been made?

Afro
08-31-2006, 04:03 AM
Babalu would take it theres nothing objective about that, hes beaten a lot better fighters then Tito has.. he has very good takedowns and a extremely good BJJ game, plus his stand up is better.. Babalu would win.

killerinstinct
08-31-2006, 04:12 AM
Tito has good submission defence and is a better wrestler so he would maybe be able to pull off a boring decision ,but I think the babalu's submission game would be too much for him to avoid and I think babalu would win the fight.

AJL416AZ
08-31-2006, 08:00 AM
babalu


Tito has nothing on Babalu. his submissions aren't as good, his standup isnt as good, and Babalu is a decorated wrestler in Brazil, so even though he doesnt use it like Tito, he's no slouch there.

Babalu has beaten Horn, arguably one of the best submission guys in MMA, Shogun, the #3 LHW in the world, and Trevor Prangley all in one night. when has Tito done anything even close? the best Tito ever beat was Vitor by LnP after Vitor gassed.

Intellectual
08-31-2006, 08:58 PM
Tito has good submission defence and is a better wrestler so he would maybe be able to pull off a boring decision ,but I think the babalu's submission game would be too much for him to avoid and I think babalu would win the fight.

on point.

it would be a VERY boring fight in my opinion.

Hypergit
08-31-2006, 09:28 PM
Babalu imo, but Tito would get the decision if Babalu didn't finish.

git.

ozzy2525
08-31-2006, 09:58 PM
ortiz would win tito has beter wrestling and i dont think babalus stand up is that much better than titos plus tito is smart he wont get caught in a submission tito is a hard worker and he would learn how to get out of the submissions in training remember hes got DEAN LISTER TO SPAR WITH dean will so him how to get out of submissions tell me who do u think is better at bjj DEAN LISTER or babalu i rest my case

AJL416AZ
09-01-2006, 02:33 AM
getting to roll with Dean Lister doesnt mean he is Dean Lister. i have yet to see Tito's submission defense, outside of maybe fighting Frank Shamrock who was just toying with him, but outside of Frank, he's never fought a great submissions guy.

Babalu has beaten Jeremy Horn, and Shogun, who both have great ground and submission games


and once again, Babalu doesnt center his entire game around wrestling and GnP, so that automatically makes him not as good at wrestling? nice logic

Afro
09-01-2006, 04:20 AM
Ya because Babalu is a complete MMA fighter, and Ortiz is still just a wrestler.

ozzy2525
09-01-2006, 04:52 PM
getting to roll with Dean Lister doesnt mean he is Dean Lister. i have yet to see Tito's submission defense, outside of maybe fighting Frank Shamrock who was just toying with him, but outside of Frank, he's never fought a great submissions guy.

Babalu has beaten Jeremy Horn, and Shogun, who both have great ground and submission games


and once again, Babalu doesnt center his entire game around wrestling and GnP, so that automatically makes him not as good at wrestling? nice logic
so what if tito centers his game around wrestling i dont see anyone saying anything about hughes being a wrestler or chuck just standing fighters do what they do best tito fought belfort and didnt get submitted getting to roll with Dean Lister is an advantage Dean Is maybe the best in the ufc everything used in fighting is learned not born with give tito a month to train and hell beat babalu

ozzy2525
09-01-2006, 05:34 PM
does anyone know what belt tito is in bjj

Afro
09-01-2006, 05:50 PM
u cant really compare Matt to Tito

Matt is a well-rounded fighter, he has a submission game and his standup is solid

Tito.. not the same case, yet to see any submission game or good standup hes still a wrestler IMO.

ozzy2525
09-01-2006, 06:05 PM
u cant really compare Matt to Tito

Matt is a well-rounded fighter, he has a submission game and his standup is solid

Tito.. not the same case, yet to see any submission game or good standup hes still a wrestler IMO.
i dont really think that matt has good standup tito has good muay thai titos standup is solid his standup is underrated matts standup is overrated well see when matt gets punched n the face vs bj when tito fought ken the first time he had good standup vs forest tito landed more shots he dosent use subs because hes never on his back and he know when he gets side control just hit with elbows what about chuck he only stands up thats ok cause he really good at it once again ill say it fighters use the bread and butter what they are best at

AJL416AZ
09-02-2006, 12:16 AM
and Babalu's bread and butter is a submission game that i have never even seen Tito play. what submission expert has Tito fought?

rolling with Dean Lister does not make you a great submission guy, it just means you have a great training partner. until i see Tito fight a great submission guy and not get tapped, then i'll believe in this submission defense everyone talks about.

Sinatra
09-02-2006, 02:42 AM
Ya because Babalu is a complete MMA fighter, and Ortiz is still just a wrestler.

Oh, man. Not to bring back memories of our debate the other day, but this post shows how little you know about MMA. Laughable :ahh:

Afro
09-02-2006, 02:46 AM
Oh, man. Not to bring back memories of our debate the other day, but this post shows how little you know about MMA. Laughable :ahh:
thats funny cuz no one else but ur little tito ortiz dick ridin ass had anything to say about that, everyone else seems to be doubting the things you believe Tito can do.

Sinatra
09-02-2006, 03:03 AM
thats funny cuz no one else but ur little tito ortiz dick ridin ass had anything to say about that, everyone else seems to be doubting the things you believe Tito can do.

Once again showing your vast MMA knowledge, just like the other day. Let me guess Chuck is just a kickboxer too, right?

Afro
09-02-2006, 03:06 AM
Once again showing your vast MMA knowledge, just like the other day. Let me guess Chuck is just a kickboxer too, right?
Chuck has actually showcased other aspects of his game

Tito has never showcased the world class striking you claim he has or the world class submission game you claim he has.

Sinatra
09-02-2006, 03:16 AM
Chuck has actually showcased other aspects of his game

Tito has never showcased the world class striking you claim he has or the world class submission game you claim he has.

Never said he was a world class striker, or a world class submission expert. I said he was a world class fighter. In MMA terms, in my opinion, that means being good at all aspects of the game. Like I said, he's been submitted once (which, if he sucked at submissions, that number would be higher) and has been ko'd on the feet once (again, if he sucked at stand up, that number would be higher). But whatever, I respect your opinion as much as you seem to respect mine. At least I can articulate the reasons behind my opinion. All you seem to go by is "xxxxx sucks" means of discussion. Good luck with that.

AJL416AZ
09-02-2006, 03:41 AM
well obviously he's a world class fighter, he's in the UFC. you only make it into the UFC or Pride or Hero's if you're a world class fighter, let alone becoming champion of a division


but how could anyone say that he could not get caught in a sub by Babalu if he's never shown any submission game?
Babalu's shown a very high level of submission abilities by avoiding getting caught by Jeremy Horn and subbing Shogun, as well as a world class wrestlers like Van Arsdale.

so where's Tito's? there needs to be proof that he can beat Babalu, and i believe that whatever Tito has, Babalu can still beat him

Sinatra
09-02-2006, 03:51 AM
well obviously he's a world class fighter, he's in the UFC. you only make it into the UFC or Pride or Hero's if you're a world class fighter, let alone becoming champion of a division


but how could anyone say that he could not get caught in a sub by Babalu if he's never shown any submission game?
Babalu's shown a very high level of submission abilities by avoiding getting caught by Jeremy Horn and subbing Shogun, as well as a world class wrestlers like Van Arsdale.

so where's Tito's? there needs to be proof that he can beat Babalu, and i believe that whatever Tito has, Babalu can still beat him

LOL at "proof" that anyone can beat anyone. There's no such thing as proof until the day comes that two people fight. Until then, it's all speculation, no matter what anyone says.

AJL416AZ
09-02-2006, 04:24 AM
no shit its speculation. we wouldnt talk about it if it already happened

i'm talking about seeing proof of this submission defense it would take Tito to stop Babalu from tapping him

all you are doing is trying to poke holes in everyones argument without offering any single argument with proof.
so lets see what you think and why you think so

Afro
09-02-2006, 04:34 AM
no shit its speculation. we wouldnt talk about it if it already happened

i'm talking about seeing proof of this submission defense it would take Tito to stop Babalu from tapping him

all you are doing is trying to poke holes in everyones argument without offering any single argument with proof.
so lets see what you think and why you think so
he aint gonna give u a good argument man, dont waste ur time with him.

Sinatra
09-02-2006, 05:45 AM
he aint gonna give u a good argument man, dont waste ur time with him.

whatver. I gave you a good argument, and you had to respond with was "fuck you, ur a dick riding...." etc. I asked you for specifics, and you had NOTHING other than insult, and then you talk trash about someone else not offering an argument. You're beyond funny. I'm guessing you're very young.

Sinatra
09-02-2006, 05:53 AM
no shit its speculation. we wouldnt talk about it if it already happened

i'm talking about seeing proof of this submission defense it would take Tito to stop Babalu from tapping him

all you are doing is trying to poke holes in everyones argument without offering any single argument with proof.
so lets see what you think and why you think so

Fuck dude, what do you want me to say?!! Jesus Christ, you guys are making me defend Tito here, and he's not ever my favorite fighter. Anyway...look, here's my point: other than his first fight with Mezger, which was on the 1st night of his career, he's never been submitted, or even close to being submitted. That's good submission defense!!! Not allowing your opponent to get you even close to being submitted is good defense!!! What the hell is so hard about this?!! Tito is comfortable in people's gaurd, so he must not be too concerned with being subbed. When he's on the ground, or in guard, he keeps his head tucked, arms in and explodes for elbows. Someone who does that is hard to tap. Plus, his wrestling and ground control is so good that he can push most anybody (excpet Randy) up against the fence, putting them in an uncomfortable spot, again, making it difficult for someone to slap a sub on. There, is that enough of a fucking argument for you?!I can't think of a time when he's had to get of a tight sub or choke, because no one has come close to doing so!!

I'm not saying Babalu couldn't sub him. Maybe he could. But it's not like Tito has been subbed a bunch in a career, so what makes you think Babalu can sub him?

AJL416AZ
09-02-2006, 07:58 PM
i'm saying that Tito has never fought a good submissions guy so he was never afraid of being caught, other then Shamrock a long time ago

so how does not getting caught by people that suck at submissions any proof of anything? if i got into a street fight and i didnt get choked out, that just means that i beat the shit out of a guy that doesnt know shit about JJ

Afro
09-02-2006, 09:06 PM
whatver. I gave you a good argument, and you had to respond with was "fuck you, ur a dick riding...." etc. I asked you for specifics, and you had NOTHING other than insult, and then you talk trash about someone else not offering an argument. You're beyond funny. I'm guessing you're very young.
and im guessing your a fuckin idiot.

Sinatra
09-03-2006, 01:30 AM
and im guessing your a fuckin idiot.

The irony of this statement makes me laugh.

"your," huh?

kaisq11
09-10-2006, 03:08 AM
Mos Def Babalu

killerinstinct
09-10-2006, 03:23 AM
The irony of this statement makes me laugh.

"your," huh?
mildly humorous.

rugoatee
09-10-2006, 11:04 AM
Fuck dude, what do you want me to say?!! Jesus Christ, you guys are making me defend Tito here, and he's not ever my favorite fighter. Anyway...look, here's my point: other than his first fight with Mezger, which was on the 1st night of his career, he's never been submitted, or even close to being submitted. That's good submission defense!!! Not allowing your opponent to get you even close to being submitted is good defense!!! What the hell is so hard about this?!! Tito is comfortable in people's gaurd, so he must not be too concerned with being subbed. When he's on the ground, or in guard, he keeps his head tucked, arms in and explodes for elbows. Someone who does that is hard to tap. Plus, his wrestling and ground control is so good that he can push most anybody (excpet Randy) up against the fence, putting them in an uncomfortable spot, again, making it difficult for someone to slap a sub on. There, is that enough of a fucking argument for you?!I can't think of a time when he's had to get of a tight sub or choke, because no one has come close to doing so!!

I'm not saying Babalu couldn't sub him. Maybe he could. But it's not like Tito has been subbed a bunch in a career, so what makes you think Babalu can sub him?
It makes sense to think Tito has at least moderate sub defense if he has never been submitted. But the fact of the matter is Tito has not fought nearly as many fights as other MMA fighters. 18 total. In those 18, his biggest threat to be submitted was either Frank Shamrock or Forrest Griffin. Not anyone well decorated in BJJ. So he has passed the test in who he has faced, but he has not faced anyone that is a big threat. I can say I have never been submitted by anyone, but what does that mean about my sub defense if I don't fight anyone that is a threat.

And there seems to be this assumption that Tito is a far superior wrestler than Bablu. Not sure where that came from. Tito wrestled junior college. Babalu was a national level wrestler in Brazil. Don't see how you can say Tito is the better wrestler when Bablu competed at a higher level.

I think it would be a good fight, not necessarily exciting, but close. I think Bablu wins a decision or submits him.