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View Full Version : NoNo Plata to Counter Omo Plata To Armbar Variation



DirtyDirtBiker
11-27-2007, 09:52 AM
I just found this vid and thought it was pretty interesting. I haven't tried it yet, but I don't think I'm flexible enough to do it.

Hopefully its a little different then what you guys are used and I'm sure its more for something to dick around with.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q-8dkXypCsk

ScottS
11-27-2007, 05:45 PM
hmm...considering the person applying the omoplata should not only be keeping him down but also securing his arm it seems like a very situational (ie. against noobs) kind of move.
But I'll give it a shot and see what happens.

willieshatner
11-27-2007, 06:25 PM
the guy doing the omoplata was being pretty sloppy

but these things happen. its an interesting idea

ever try letting the guy roll out of the omoplata and roll right into a bicep slicer? that's pretty fun too

BJJ Boy
11-27-2007, 09:47 PM
Truly amazing! Thank you very much for sharing. Im gonna try it out tonight at grappling class. +Rep for you my friend.

Edit: i tryd it out, lets just say this move is EXTREMELY hard to pull off. Unless the guy was skinny, or created allot of space for you i dont see people pulling this move off.

Sorry.

kaiz77
11-27-2007, 11:04 PM
Cool idea....but functional...
Probably not...

I dont see anybody just chillin back after an omoplata.....that being said...it might work 1 out of 15 times....

are you feeling lucky? :grinsmile1:

ufobydeath
11-27-2007, 11:18 PM
The next fighter who pulls this one off is Ryo Chonan... no, really!

DirtyDirtBiker
11-28-2007, 12:00 AM
ever try letting the guy roll out of the omoplata and roll right into a bicep slicer? that's pretty fun too

haha thats a pretty neat one actually. I just started using the bicep slicers, first one i started using was when someone would hold their arms together during a arm bar - I would put my leg over his arm and squeeze it down.

The other is just from the side gaurd, I think noob posted the move? Yeah its here http://forums.mmanews.com/showthread.php?t=17916

Oh and yeah I don't think this one is easily or practicle to pull off. I do get omoplata'ed, but rarely they are sloopy, I can see it maybe if the guy can't get you down all the way, but I still can't see it being done. It was more of a fun post if your bored in class or something.

ufobydeath
11-28-2007, 12:07 AM
Bicep Slicers are greatness. It's too bad they're not allowed in BJJ :(

DirtyDirtBiker
11-28-2007, 12:14 AM
Bicep Slicers are greatness. It's too bad they're not allowed in BJJ :(

Hmm I have to look this one up, I have never been tought it in class, but I never read anything about it in any tourny rules.

I'll try to ask the instructors about it :)

ufobydeath
11-28-2007, 12:17 AM
Hmm I have to look this one up, I have never been tought it in class, but I never read anything about it in any tourny rules.

I'll try to ask the instructors about it :)

I asked one of my instructors about it when I started training (seeing as I use them all the time) and he said "in SW, yes you can use them. In BJJ: big no-no". Rules differ somewhat from school to school so check it out. If you can use them - Sweet. If not... eh, roll a bit after class and work on them anyways.

Palma
11-28-2007, 01:14 AM
I asked one of my instructors about it when I started training (seeing as I use them all the time) and he said "in SW, yes you can use them. In BJJ: big no-no". Rules differ somewhat from school to school so check it out. If you can use them - Sweet. If not... eh, roll a bit after class and work on them anyways.

It's a great move for self defense but just too dangeous just for competition.

ufobydeath
11-28-2007, 01:29 AM
It's a great move for self defense but just too dangeous just for competition.

So are heel-hooks. If they're allowed - use 'em. It all comes down to self-discipline from your part (not cranking it too hard and giving the opponent a chance to tap) and common sense on the other guy's part (to know when to tap). Problem is that a lot of grapplers aren't too familiar with the moves and don't know when they should tap.

Palma
11-28-2007, 06:47 AM
So are heel-hooks. If they're allowed - use 'em. It all comes down to self-discipline from your part (not cranking it too hard and giving the opponent a chance to tap) and common sense on the other guy's part (to know when to tap). Problem is that a lot of grapplers aren't too familiar with the moves and don't know when they should tap.

Heel-hooks aren't allowed as well. I think in a perfect world there wouldn't be any subs that are illegal. As you said it does take common sense to tap, but I think the problem is that person applying the sub doesn't have the common sense to stop at a certain point if ther other guy isn't tapping. No tourny is worth destroying someone else's knee or bicept (imo).

ScottS
11-28-2007, 11:08 AM
...heel hooks are definitely legal.

ufobydeath
11-28-2007, 11:37 AM
Heel-hooks aren't allowed as well. I think in a perfect world there wouldn't be any subs that are illegal. As you said it does take common sense to tap, but I think the problem is that person applying the sub doesn't have the common sense to stop at a certain point if ther other guy isn't tapping. No tourny is worth destroying someone else's knee or bicept (imo).

Well, that depends. In SW they're allowed, but the teachers always stress the importance on awareness and self-discipline so that we don't hurt each other. In BJJ it's another story, but then again our BJJ teachers barely allow any leglocks at all (which pisses me off but is understandable). You're absolutely right though, it's not worth crippling someone for the sake of a grappling tourny (anyone who thinks it is would be extremely petty). I just think that the notion of excluding submissions from training is pretty weird; if you don't know the move then how will you defend against it?

BJJ Boy
11-28-2007, 12:59 PM
Bicep Slicers are greatness. It's too bad they're not allowed in BJJ :(


Who says? Their allowed in my previous club and my new one.

ufobydeath
11-28-2007, 03:42 PM
Who says? Their allowed in my previous club and my new one.

Most teachers that I've talked to... and God of course.

Palma
11-28-2007, 07:01 PM
...heel hooks are definitely legal.

Only for Black and Brown belts.


Well, that depends. In SW they're allowed, but the teachers always stress the importance on awareness and self-discipline so that we don't hurt each other. In BJJ it's another story, but then again our BJJ teachers barely allow any leglocks at all (which pisses me off but is understandable). You're absolutely right though, it's not worth crippling someone for the sake of a grappling tourny (anyone who thinks it is would be extremely petty). I just think that the notion of excluding submissions from training is pretty weird; if you don't know the move then how will you defend against it?

The advanced grapplers certainly work on all subs, but for the first few years there is so much to learn anyways that it doesn't bother me not to be able to heel hooks and bicept slicers. At our gym they show us how to defend illegal subs but not apply them at this point.

We used to work on bicept slicers until a really good student ended his career when his other hand got caught in his gi and he could tap fast enough. His bicep was litterally ripped off of the bone where the bend in his elbow is.

NixHex
11-28-2007, 07:12 PM
Only for Black and Brown belts.



The advanced grapplers certainly work on all subs, but for the first few years there is so much to learn anyways that it doesn't bother me not to be able to heel hooks and bicept slicers. At our gym they show us how to defend illegal subs but not apply them at this point.

We used to work on bicept slicers until a really good student ended his career when his other hand got caught in his gi and he could tap fast enough. His bicep was litterally ripped off of the bone where the bend in his elbow is.
That doesn't sound like a very good time, the guy he was rolling with should've known when to stop with the pressure so nothing like that happened though. Were they two beginners? I couldn't imagine a student with some time in ripping somebody's bicept off the bone because they didn't feel a tap.

ufobydeath
11-28-2007, 07:15 PM
The advanced grapplers certainly work on all subs, but for the first few years there is so much to learn anyways that it doesn't bother me not to be able to heel hooks and bicept slicers. At our gym they show us how to defend illegal subs but not apply them at this point.

We used to work on bicept slicers until a really good student ended his career when his other hand got caught in his gi and he could tap fast enough. His bicep was litterally ripped off of the bone where the bend in his elbow is.

Yeah, you should never overstep your bounds. There's a lot to learn out there and without a strong foundation your game will inevitably fall apart.

Youch! Well, that's a problem with the gi... same thing's happened to me when I got caught in a choke. I agree with g'nightXX though. The guy executing the sub should ALWAYS communicate with the guy getting subbed.

willieshatner
11-29-2007, 03:54 PM
The advanced grapplers certainly work on all subs, but for the first few years there is so much to learn anyways that it doesn't bother me not to be able to heel hooks and bicept slicers. At our gym they show us how to defend illegal subs but not apply them at this point.

We used to work on bicept slicers until a really good student ended his career when his other hand got caught in his gi and he could tap fast enough. His bicep was litterally ripped off of the bone where the bend in his elbow is.

at my gym we don't really have any illegal subs. the instructors let us use anything we see fit. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I while ago this blue belt caught me in a bicep slicer and immediately cranked it hard. I tapped as quickly as I could but it still hurt for a few days. Whenever this guy applies a submission hold he cranks it violently as fast as he can. He has a bad attitude, I think he got picked on in the past. I'm going to choke him out one of these days

Anyway I always make a point of telling beginners that if for whatever reason you can't tap, just say "tap!" or simply yell. Also if I catch a n00b in a joint lock and they simply won't tap, I'll let them go before breaking something. Nobody should be injured unecessarily. chokes are a different story...

ufobydeath
11-29-2007, 07:49 PM
at my gym we don't really have any illegal subs. the instructors let us use anything we see fit. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I while ago this blue belt caught me in a bicep slicer and immediately cranked it hard. I tapped as quickly as I could but it still hurt for a few days. Whenever this guy applies a submission hold he cranks it violently as fast as he can. He has a bad attitude, I think he got picked on in the past. I'm going to choke him out one of these days

Anyway I always make a point of telling beginners that if for whatever reason you can't tap, just say "tap!" or simply yell. Also if I catch a n00b in a joint lock and they simply won't tap, I'll let them go before breaking something. Nobody should be injured unecessarily. chokes are a different story...

Well... he sounds like a moron. IMO someone who can't control his subs and respect his training partners doesn't deserve a blue belt.

That's basically what I do too. I usually ask the guy I'm submitting if he feels the lock, and if he doesn't I switch to something that I know will work. However if he's full of shit I'll just let him go.

BJJ Boy
11-29-2007, 09:12 PM
Most teachers that I've talked to... and God of course.

Lol, god..
Well, we can just agree that its illegal in some clubs.

DirtyDirtBiker
11-30-2007, 06:48 AM
I asked one of my instructors about it when I started training (seeing as I use them all the time) and he said "in SW, yes you can use them. In BJJ: big no-no". Rules differ somewhat from school to school so check it out. If you can use them - Sweet. If not... eh, roll a bit after class and work on them anyways.

Hey man, Yeah I actually asked in class and the instructor said 'sure why not'. :)

ufobydeath
11-30-2007, 11:47 AM
Hey man, Yeah I actually asked in class and the instructor said 'sure why not'. :)

Well, too bad I can't use that for leverage when trying to convince them ;)

"Buuuuuuuut...! I know I guy on the internet and he told me they allow it in his school!"

I think I'll just stick to training it during SW (where anything goes ;))

Warrior Mac
12-03-2007, 07:09 PM
Where i am theres no bicep crunces in tournments but we can do them in class

Warrior Mac
12-03-2007, 07:11 PM
when i have someone in my guard i sit up put my leg behind there knee and grab the foot for a calf cruncher i get alot of people with this. Use what works

DirtyDirtBiker
12-04-2007, 05:55 AM
when i have someone in my guard i sit up put my leg behind there knee and grab the foot for a calf cruncher i get alot of people with this. Use what works

haha, yeah thats awesome, I think I saw that somewhere on lockflow.com. I tried it and it actually worked, but most people just have to straighten their legs and they are out. Still a sick move I try to sneak in.