PDA

View Full Version : Is Boxing really in bad shape right now?



Afro
05-30-2006, 08:40 PM
Do you believe Dana White when he says that Boxing is in a bad place right now?

I dont, maybe thats just me but do more people really go to UFC events then boxing events?

The UFC arenas are too dark to really make an eye judgement but my guess is that a packed UFC venue is a lot smaller then a packed boxing venue, and I noticed a full house during the Barrera fight still looks like more people go to Boxing then they do the UFC I dont know this for fact though.

I also dont think De La Hoya is the heart and soul of boxing, he isnt the only boxer that they can market.

Kass101
05-30-2006, 08:44 PM
no way and it never will be. the hw divison does suck but this is probably the best summber for boxing in a long time. the sport was suffering for a little while a couple years ago but its turing around right now.

Luis Cruz
05-30-2006, 08:52 PM
Boxing will NEVER die! It'll always have rising stars. Dana was just building up mma by bad mouthing boxing. The lighter divisions are still hot.

Afro
05-30-2006, 08:54 PM
I agree, Boxing will never die.. its been around for years and its never gonna go away.

Winky Wright is the next big thing!

Luis Cruz
05-30-2006, 09:04 PM
winky wright will be exposed by jermain taylor on june 17th.

Afro
05-30-2006, 09:06 PM
winky wright will be exposed by jermain taylor on june 17th.
Taylors a hard hitter but I think Winky out boxes him.

Matt Boone
05-31-2006, 11:15 PM
The thread title "is boxing in really bad shape right now" and the poll question "is boxing near its end" are two totally different questions. I don't know enough about the business of boxing to say if it's in really bad shape on that end, but as a fan I'd say it's the best it has been in a little while. There has already been a lot of big fights this year and there's quite a bit more already officially lined up across the next few months. Of course this is all excluding the Heavyweight division which as everyone has said for years now is in terrible shape, which it is.

As far as UFC crowd size versus boxing crowd size, it's complicated. UFC only runs PPV shows what, 6-8 times a year? The UFN's are in a shithole as far as seating capacity, so those are like what boxing's Friday Night Fights is like on ESPN. Same sized crowds. The FNF crowds might actually be bigger I'm not sure I haven't watched that show in a while. But a big UFC show doesn't do what a BIG boxing show does. Cruz would have to explain to you the difference between a BIG boxing show is and just a good fight fans want to see, because that's a whole 'nother story in itself. Overall boxing would slaughter UFC because they have so many more shows because it's a sport, whereas UFC is only one organization within a sport. If you're talking MMA in general in the U.S. vs. boxing in the U.S., I would have no idea because there's far too many shows.

Obviously boxing is still bigger than MMA right now, but UFC when they do PPV shows, their "top" shows - they're starting to be competitive with boxing's "top" shows (the DLH type top shows) in terms of attendance. PPV buys for a DLH type show still slaughter UFC numbers. But even there, UFC PPV numbers are dramatically increasing with each show.

Afro
05-31-2006, 11:17 PM
bad shape and near its end isnt the same thing??????

Matt Boone
05-31-2006, 11:20 PM
No. You can be in bad shape financially and as a business but it doesn't necessarily mean you're headed for bankruptcy and extinction. You can peak and valley.

Afro
05-31-2006, 11:24 PM
well I couldnt think of anything else

Luis Cruz
05-31-2006, 11:39 PM
Taylors a hard hitter but I think Winky out boxes him.

no chance in hell. if winky had power to keep taylor at bay, maybe. but he doesn't and taylor is going to walk right in on him, outjab him and then pounce on him. this is going to be way easier for taylor than either of his hopkins fights.

Afro
05-31-2006, 11:42 PM
no chance in hell. if winky had power to keep taylor at bay, maybe. but he doesn't and taylor is going to walk right in on him, outjab him and then pounce on him. this is going to be way easier for taylor than either of his hopkins fights.
whoooa I dunno about that, Hopkins may be a great boxer but hes still old as the hills and Winky would have his way with him too.. now I do believe Hopkins goes out with a win (or maybe I want to believe that cuz I cant stand Tarver), I dunno though im still pulling for Winky in this fight.. I know its gonna be real tough for him to win, I like Jermain Taylor too.. that guys a stud.

Matt Boone
06-01-2006, 03:16 PM
"whoooa I dunno about that, Hopkins may be a great boxer but hes still old as the hills and Winky would have his way with him too"

Too? Taylor didn't "have his way" with Hopkins in either fight from where I was sitting.

Luis Cruz
06-01-2006, 04:53 PM
winky wright is no hopkins by any stretch. too many people have bought into this hype they made with winky beating tito with a jab and beating an old mosely. that's it, that's all he's done. mark my words taylor will have very little problem getting by him, anyone know the odds for that fight or maybe i'll just look. i doubt winky will be the favorite but if he is money is going on taylor, quickly.

Matt Boone
06-01-2006, 05:01 PM
Wright vs. Taylor odds (pinnaclesports.com)

To win the fight:

Wright +109
Taylor -119

Will it go over or under 11.5 rounds?

Over -360
Under +330

Will Wright win by KO, TKO, or DQ?

Yes +1100
No -1400

Will Wright win by Decision?

+143
-153

Will Taylor win by KO, TKO, or DQ?

+560
-620

Will Taylor win by Decision?

+186
-206

Will the fight be a draw?

+1700
-2100

Luis Cruz
06-01-2006, 05:37 PM
thats the only place i have an account so i'm glad you posted those. i gotta check the site i might take taylor by decision.

Kass101
06-01-2006, 05:40 PM
if i was gonna take any of those bets id take taylor win by ko,tko thats good money to be made.

Matt Boone
06-01-2006, 06:37 PM
I'd never have the balls to ever bet money on anything other than just picking a winner. All the specifics on how and when and all that, that's just seems crazy to try and bet money on. Oh the life of a gambler.

Afro
06-01-2006, 09:40 PM
winky wright is no hopkins by any stretch. too many people have bought into this hype they made with winky beating tito with a jab and beating an old mosely. that's it, that's all he's done. mark my words taylor will have very little problem getting by him, anyone know the odds for that fight or maybe i'll just look. i doubt winky will be the favorite but if he is money is going on taylor, quickly.
See I like Hopkins but I still remember the Roy Jones fight when JR knocked him out with one arm broken.. and Mosley is only 35 man, Hopkins is 41.. Hopkins is a finese boxer he can last long but still... Im still going with Winky in this fight, hes the more experienced fighter.. hes fought names, Taylor hasnt fought anyone but Hopkins.

Matt Boone
06-01-2006, 11:44 PM
"See I like Hopkins but I still remember the Roy Jones fight when JR knocked him out with one arm broken.."

Huh? Roy Jones knocked out Hopkins when they fought? I thought he won a decision?

Luis Cruz
06-02-2006, 12:26 AM
yea roy definately didn't knock him out he took a unanimous decision. lol

as for winky, he may have fought more but when he has fought names he wasn't all that successful until PAST HIS PRIME mosely and tito. his first real test was vasquez way back when in which he lost a majority decision or some shit. i never considered mckart an upper echelon real championship caliber f an opponent and he faced him a few times. and of course his loss to vargas. that's about it. he really struggled and could've dropped a decision to soliman in his last fight. taylor 3 years in got put in with marquez who was past his prime but a very decent fighter in his time and taylor didn't just beat him he destroyed him. then he beat joppy worse than anyone ever beat him. killed danny and then of course his two big wins over hopkins in which i thought he won both, even more clear the 2nd time. watch and see the exposure of winky wright on june 17th. how ring has him p4p #2 this month is some crackhead shit. he might not even be top 10 in my book.

Kass101
06-02-2006, 02:43 AM
i do agree that winky is overrated hes looked good when ive seen him fight but i think taylor just has more tools. hopkins is a better defensive fighter then winky and much more crafty and taylor took him to school especially in their second fight. and this is from a hopkins fan. also if im not mistaken isnt mosley really a division down from were he fought winky?

Afro
06-02-2006, 12:08 PM
"See I like Hopkins but I still remember the Roy Jones fight when JR knocked him out with one arm broken.."

Huh? Roy Jones knocked out Hopkins when they fought? I thought he won a decision?
my mistake, I thought he KO'd him.

Matt Boone
06-02-2006, 04:34 PM
Mosley originally is many divisions down from Wright's. From what I know, Wright hasn't been one of the guys like Sugar Ray, DLH, Mosley, Mayweather, etc. who start off way down in the lower weight classes and year by year move up another one and another one and another one. Mosley was. He started off as what, a Lightweight? He fought Winky at Middleweight or Super Middle, whatever it was. So technically Mosley has been all over the place while Wright was fighting at about the same weight he's always been used to in the pros.

I don't know about Hopkins being a "much more" crafty and better defensive fighter than Wright. But I guess we'll see when Taylor gets at him.

StephanBonnarrocks
07-24-2006, 02:05 AM
1st of all winky the future? lol how old is he? hes got 3 big fights left, o wait, he pussied out from taylor wont fight floyd and refused to fight vargas before. hmmm, sounds to me like the end of a career. lol. ANYWAYS, look at how much the average boxer makes in his main event (ppvs) and look at ufc. lol that answers the question. boxings fine, just needs to be cleaned up and organized

Salvy_Mic
08-14-2006, 02:27 AM
Damn, I was almost about to post something about Winky Wright before I remembered what the thread was originally about.

The problem with boxing is that it has always been heavyweight-centered. Even during the glory days of Leonard, Duran, Hearns, and Hagler, boxing was always measured by how exciting, or how exciting it was perceived to be, the heavyweight division was. Larry Holmes wasn't a loved champion at all, but his circus of a fight with Gerry Cooney still drew a whole lot of attention. When you get down to it, any sort of stunt that makes the HW division look intriguing, boxing fans and experts jump right on.

The biggest problem with boxing right now is that there are too many greedy promoters and managers who protect their fighters more zealously than a suburban mother does her children. The major organizations are stripping champions of their titles left and right because the champion wants to fight against the guys that will truly test them, not just against some mandatory the org puts in front of them, especially the ones that didn't deserve to be there. Guys like Owen Beck getting title shots? Please. The only good thing about something like this is you get the big upset, like Baldomir beating Judah and becoming the linear welterweight champion, and a good one at that.

The big fights, the truly compelling fights aren't happening because too many promoters and managers simply won't do business with others. Too many fighters will flat out refuse to fight other guys (i.e., Mayweather not wanting any part of Antonio Margarito). On top of that, they expect boxing fans to shill $50 for a PPV that could easily be on HBO or Showtime, since the numbers would probably be about the same. The only big draws these days who are still mostly active and coming back from inactivity are Manny Pacquiao, Erik Morales, and Marco Antonio Barrera. You only get one De La Hoya PPV per year, Roy Jones is a shell of his former self, Bernard Hopkins is retired, Arturo Gatti is on the downside, there are no compelling heavyweights, and the guys who could be big draws (Mayweather, Hatton, Cotto, Margarito, Taylor) are either not known enough, aren't able to get big fights, or have made themselves villains rather than heroes.

That said, there is still room for the sport of boxing to recover. Will it relegate MMA back to the proverbial bush leagues? No. MMA in this country has gained enough of a foothold where new promotions are popping up and doing good business, while the UFC is doing extremely well. A lot of UFC, and MMA guys in general, have become big enough names to draw big crowds and big buys.

No, in the future, boxing, kickboxing, and MMA will all continue to coexist side by side because they appeal to different kinds of fight fans and different kinds of fighters. They each have their own large niche in the fighting community.

fighterforjc
09-16-2006, 09:52 PM
Boxing is in horrible shape because the the top fighters avoid the top fighters. This is old news, the way it's always been. You had fighters like Tyson avoiding Foreman, Hoyfield, Bowe, even paid Lewis to not fight him, and you have De La Hoya who made a career of fighting fighters who are either two weightclasses below him or 5 years past their prime. The best rarely fight the best in their primes. In MMA, the 90% of the fights fans want to see actually happen. We've had Fedor vs. Noguiera, Fedor vs. Cro Cop, Cro Cop vs Silva, Liddell vs Ortiz, Couture vs Liddell, just to name a few. That's the equivalent of having Tyson vs Bowe or Tyson vs Foreman, or De La Hoya vs Wright, Mayweather vs De La Hoya, Mosley vs Mayweather, Tyson vs Tua, Lewis vs Bowe, etc. But we rarely get that in boxing. that's why it's in bad shape.

Afro
09-16-2006, 10:10 PM
Boxing is in horrible shape because the the top fighters avoid the top fighters. This is old news, the way it's always been. You had fighters like Tyson avoiding Foreman, Hoyfield, Bowe, even paid Lewis to not fight him, and you have De La Hoya who made a career of fighting fighters who are either two weightclasses below him or 5 years past their prime. The best rarely fight the best in their primes. In MMA, the 90% of the fights fans want to see actually happen. We've had Fedor vs. Noguiera, Fedor vs. Cro Cop, Cro Cop vs Silva, Liddell vs Ortiz, Couture vs Liddell, just to name a few. That's the equivalent of having Tyson vs Bowe or Tyson vs Foreman, or De La Hoya vs Wright, Mayweather vs De La Hoya, Mosley vs Mayweather, Tyson vs Tua, Lewis vs Bowe, etc. But we rarely get that in boxing. that's why it's in bad shape.
WHOA!

How the hell is a Liddell vs Ortiz equivelant to ANY De La Hoya fight?

First off the highest gross sales that MMA has gotten is about 5 mill off from the highest gross sale that a De La Hoya fight ALONE has gotten, and its 1 mill away from the 35th highest gross sale boxing has ever gotten.. sorry but Boxing doesnt look in bad shape when it comes to money considering that the UFC has yet to take in near the kind of cash that Boxing is taking now and

didnt we see Hopkins/Tarver, Winky/Taylor? These are top fighters fighting eachother, we get to see Mayweather/De La Hoya next year.. were gonna see Mayweather/Baldomir in a few months, we saw Peters/Toney.. so how are we not seeing the top guys fight eachother?

its more of a problem in MMA then it is in boxing cuz MMA is a segregated sport.

killerinstinct
09-16-2006, 10:28 PM
Boxing has been slowly declining for years.MMA is the fastest growing sport in America and will some day surpass boxing.

Afro
09-16-2006, 10:38 PM
Boxing has been slowly declining for years.MMA is the fastest growing sport in America and will some day surpass boxing.
how has Boxing slowly declined? have you seen the #s lately?

killerinstinct
09-29-2006, 11:10 PM
how has Boxing slowly declined? have you seen the #s lately?
At one time boxing was the biggest sport in america.It was on prime time on abc and other shows.It was huge.Even the average joe who didn't even follow boxing could tell you the HW champ.It's been slowly declining for years now.Nowadays most people wouldn't recognize the names of Nikolay Valuev,Sergei Liakhovich,Wladimir Klitschko,or Oleg Maskaev ,but they're the heavyweights champs.Someday mma will totally surpass boxing and once more people see how much better mma is than boxing than boxing will almost completely die off.

Afro
09-30-2006, 07:08 AM
At one time boxing was the biggest sport in america.It was on prime time on abc and other shows.It was huge.Even the average joe who didn't even follow boxing could tell you the HW champ.It's been slowly declining for years now.Nowadays most people wouldn't recognize the names of Nikolay Valuev,Sergei Liakhovich,Wladimir Klitschko,or Oleg Maskaev ,but they're the heavyweights champs.Someday mma will totally surpass boxing and once more people see how much better mma is than boxing than boxing will almost completely die off.
ROFL Boxing will never die off come on man be serious, firs of all the #s in boxing are still high, higher then MMA, 2nd of all Boxing has been around forever its not gonna die off and ur just naming the HW division.. ya the HW division is weak in boxing, but its weak in MMA too! dont play favorites, Boxing still has a lot of marketable boxers and on top of that 2006 was a great year for boxing, and 2007 is already set up to be better

killerinstinct
09-30-2006, 09:03 AM
ROFL Boxing will never die off come on man be serious, firs of all the #s in boxing are still high, higher then MMA, 2nd of all Boxing has been around forever its not gonna die off and ur just naming the HW division.. ya the HW division is weak in boxing, but its weak in MMA too! dont play favorites, Boxing still has a lot of marketable boxers and on top of that 2006 was a great year for boxing, and 2007 is already set up to be better
the mma HW division isn't weak.MMA has Fedor,Nog,Barnett,Sylvia,Arlvoski,Crocop,Mark Hunt,among many ,many others.HW in mma is doing pretty well.

Afro
09-30-2006, 09:45 AM
the mma HW division isn't weak.MMA has Fedor,Nog,Barnett,Sylvia,Arlvoski,Crocop,Mark Hunt,among many ,many others.HW in mma is doing pretty well.
smh, The only MMA brand thats popular right now is the UFC Pride is not big in the states at all you cant just include Pride HWs when half the MMA fans in the states dont know who they are, and they arent marketable either.. in fact there isnt a single marketable HW in MMA right now.

Punk Ass
09-30-2006, 11:32 AM
smh, The only MMA brand thats popular right now is the UFC Pride is not big in the states at all you cant just include Pride HWs when half the MMA fans in the states dont know who they are, and they arent marketable either.. in fact there isnt a single marketable HW in MMA right now.

Absolutely right. Some of these dudes are wishful thinkers. They don't like boxing so they find every excuse to bash it. Boxing has been around over 100 years, and has built a worldwide fan base not to mention it's a monopoly, not just different ORGs.

The HW division still has more marketing value then MMA. And it's not even from the champions. Everybody knows, James Toney, Evander Holyfield, Wlad Kitsko (don't feel like looking up the spelling), Mike Tyson, all these fighters still have more draw than UFC HWs

Afro
09-30-2006, 11:55 AM
Absolutely right. Some of these dudes are wishful thinkers. They don't like boxing so they find every excuse to bash it. Boxing has been around over 100 years, and has built a worldwide fan base not to mention it's a monopoly, not just different ORGs.

The HW division still has more marketing value then MMA. And it's not even from the champions. Everybody knows, James Toney, Evander Holyfield, Wlad Kitsko (don't feel like looking up the spelling), Mike Tyson, all these fighters still have more draw than UFC HWs
as soon as Pride comes to the US the UFC wont be competing with Boxing nor taking its buys

Fighting fans will be deciding between 40 bucks on the UFC or 40 bucks on Pride, while Boxing will still keep its faithfuls and remain in tact.. Boxing is going NO WHERE