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SimpleJack
12-19-2007, 06:39 PM
I went to the Indiana Pacers/Toronto Raptors game Thursday. Neither team really a strong contender or the most popular, but after going to the game and leaving at halftime, I watched a few other games and I've noticed that there are more people at a WNBA game these days. I swear that there were more empty seats than I've ever seen at the Fieldhouse in my life. The league is in trouble unless something drastic happens, and the Celtics aren't it.

eazye76
12-20-2007, 10:39 AM
I know what your saying, there just isn't that much intrest. I'm as guilty as the next guy, b/c I havn't even sat down and watched a full game yet. Boston and Detroit played last night, a game that I intended on watching but honesly forgot about it. Then there was the Mavs/Suns, which I only watched an hour of and went to bed w/ 4 min left. Pro b-ball just isn't what it used to be.

I wonder if it's the Spurs. I respect them and their accomplishments, I just don't give a shit about watching them play unless it's against a contender in the West in March. It's a snoozefest.

It could also be the fact that the East is weak. In my part of the country we're always accused of having infamous "East Coast Bias", so maybe that has something to do with it. I think Boston being good can help the NBA, and Lebron can't hurt.

Something needs to happen, b/c I've always been a big NBA fan, and I'm starting to prefer college.

Metalhead
12-20-2007, 12:35 PM
I can't stand basketball. My interest peaked when the Grizzlies were around but once they left it was downhill from there. My only interest in basketball right now is Steve Nash but even then I'll rarely watch. I can't remember the last time I watched a game.

I dont know what it is about basketball. I hear, through the media, that most players are complete dickheads. It seems they're only in it for themselves and don't give back to kids or anything.

As for the game itself, I think it's lame. There is just way too much scoring. Maybe people are tired of end to end basket after basket. It's just like arena football in that sense

Punk Ass
12-20-2007, 03:54 PM
Well I've been losing interest because my team is garbage right now. Basketball is and always will do fine. In the cities where tickets are not being sold as much won't have a team anymore. The NBA itself will be fine.

dofking
12-21-2007, 12:43 AM
I started watching again this season because of the celtics. I was at the edge of my seat during the 4th quarter in their game against he pistons this week. fucking pissed that they lost but the pistons looked great in that game and pushed the pace real hard at the 4th quarter.

leelandk
12-27-2007, 12:00 PM
Same here. I've always followed the NBA really closely, but this year is kinda dull to me. Part of the reason for me is Marion, my favorite player, isn't playing with the same intensity he usually does. I don't understand it either, he's gonna be a free agent so he should be playing for a big contract.

Mr. Pink
12-27-2007, 01:43 PM
The quality of the game is down and there are a few reasons, the main one being highschool kids coming out. They aren't ready for the pros but since teams draft on upside these kids get drafted in the lottery so they keep coming out.

Some of them never develop because of this and wash out, meanwhile the quality of what the fans sees is lacking. Plus you take a 18 or 19 year old kid and make him a millionaire and most of them just aren't ready for that mentally.

On top of that, for some reason basketball is becoming less of a team sport and more about the star individual on the team. It's a joke, you got guys like Marbury and Francis acting like premadonnas and all they are capable of is losing. Marbury is making absolutely retarded money for what he is. It's not their fault, the league needs to do something about the draft and the salary structure.

Guaranteed if they fixed it to where you couldn't come out until 2 or 3 years after highschool graduation things would change.

JoeKickAss
12-28-2007, 04:33 AM
The quality of the game is down and there are a few reasons, the main one being highschool kids coming out. They aren't ready for the pros but since teams draft on upside these kids get drafted in the lottery so they keep coming out.

Some of them never develop because of this and wash out, meanwhile the quality of what the fans sees is lacking. Plus you take a 18 or 19 year old kid and make him a millionaire and most of them just aren't ready for that mentally.

On top of that, for some reason basketball is becoming less of a team sport and more about the star individual on the team. It's a joke, you got guys like Marbury and Francis acting like premadonnas and all they are capable of is losing. Marbury is making absolutely retarded money for what he is. It's not their fault, the league needs to do something about the draft and the salary structure.

Guaranteed if they fixed it to where you couldn't come out until 2 or 3 years after highschool graduation things would change.

Kids can't come out straight out of high school anymore. They have to wait a year and then enter if they want.

sodium_nitrate
12-28-2007, 04:53 AM
it's all been downhill since jordan left.

error2k5
12-28-2007, 05:33 AM
I think david stern is ruining the game. It's not as physical as it used to be. It's a watered down version of it's former self. If your a recognizable name you get sent to the foul line if another player breathes on you.

Afro
12-28-2007, 08:26 AM
David Stern sucks

Lack of big men

Lack of hall of famers

you got a lot of all-stars, no hall of famers

Remember the 90s? you had

Ewing
Barkley
Jordan
Shaq
The Dream
Kobe
Malone
Stockton
Kidd
Hardaway
REGGIE MILLER!
Garnett
Duncan
Robinson

Now you got a few people on this list plus Wade and Lebron.. thats it

every team back in the 90s pratically had a good big man, now only 3 or 4 teams have a big man anyone really cares about

it became a PF league no longer a Center league.. and that sucks.. the game became waaaaaaaaay toooooo finese, and its a finese game with a lack of hall of famers.. and limited superstars.

Ubermensch
12-28-2007, 10:38 AM
OK guys it is not because of kids goin in to the NBA.... If that were the case T-mac, Labron, Amare would suck usually kids pan out to be stars there are the few that fall through the cracks though.
The problem is that there are too many teams. You dilute the talent pool when you have three (Grizzlies, Raptors, and Bobcats. hell the magic isn't even that old) more teams than you use to have. If you want to have a better game get rid of some of the teams and give each team a NBDL team so the can farm there own picks instead of loosing them because of slow development and the 12 man roster rule. Stern also screwed up by giving Disney the media rights and coverage of the sport. In the 90's NBC was the source of media for the NBA and did a job of having a set time on Saturday and Sunday to watch it.

Mr. Pink
12-28-2007, 11:37 AM
OK guys it is not because of kids goin in to the NBA.... If that were the case T-mac, Labron, Amare would suck usually kids pan out to be stars there are the few that fall through the cracks though.
The problem is that there are too many teams. You dilute the talent pool when you have three (Grizzlies, Raptors, and Bobcats. hell the magic isn't even that old) more teams than you use to have. If you want to have a better game get rid of some of the teams and give each team a NBDL team so the can farm there own picks instead of loosing them because of slow development and the 12 man roster rule. Stern also screwed up by giving Disney the media rights and coverage of the sport. In the 90's NBC was the source of media for the NBA and did a job of having a set time on Saturday and Sunday to watch it.

For every T-Mac, Lebron and Amare there are 60 other kids who try and fail.

This is the H.S. kids from 03, 04, 05:
2003:
Lebron James- All Star
Travis Outlaw
Ndudi Ebi
Kendrick Perkins
James Lang

2004:
Dwight Howard-soon to be all star
Shaun Livingston
Robert Swift
Al Jefferson
J.R. Smith
Dorrell Wright

2005:
Martel Webster
Gerald Green
C.J. Miles
Ricky Sanchez
Andrew Bynam- may be good one day
Monta Ellis
Louis Williams
Andrew Blatche
Amir Johnson

And those are just the ones that got drafted, what about all the kids that went undrafted and are now playing in the D-league or abroad. Do they still eeven have the D-league.

Ubermensch
12-29-2007, 12:29 AM
A lot of those guys are still playing what is your point!!!

SimpleJack
12-29-2007, 05:49 AM
The quality of the game is down and there are a few reasons, the main one being highschool kids coming out. They aren't ready for the pros but since teams draft on upside these kids get drafted in the lottery so they keep coming out.

Some of them never develop because of this and wash out, meanwhile the quality of what the fans sees is lacking. Plus you take a 18 or 19 year old kid and make him a millionaire and most of them just aren't ready for that mentally.

On top of that, for some reason basketball is becoming less of a team sport and more about the star individual on the team. It's a joke, you got guys like Marbury and Francis acting like premadonnas and all they are capable of is losing. Marbury is making absolutely retarded money for what he is. It's not their fault, the league needs to do something about the draft and the salary structure.

Guaranteed if they fixed it to where you couldn't come out until 2 or 3 years after highschool graduation things would change.

As stated before, that's been changed.

Also, I don't see the youth as being the problem. As a matter of fact, 3 of the very best and most exciting in the league now (Garnett, Kobe, and Lebron) did that very thing. And they are NOT the problem.

I think the problem is the lean toward International play. Sure, I love watching those guys shoot and run, but they show no heart in the way they play (Except Ginobili). They shoot jumpers. The athletes in the league only try to go one on one and dunk or shoot a fade-away jumper. There is no true battle of wills like we had in the 80's and 90's. There's no Hakeem vs. Patrick, Jordan vs. Barkley, Shaq vs. David Robinson, Bird vs. Magic, etc. We have Nowitzki vs. Yao and the game has evolved around that type of game.

The other problem is the Jordan factor. Jordan is retired. He's gone. Now, all the kids who watched in awe as he accomplished amazing feets are entering the league. All those kids who only practiced dunking and fading away. Most of them forgot a couple of great points: 1. Jordan was an amazind defender who actually turned his defense into team offense in transition. 2. Jordan busted his ass to learn the fundamentals of basketball. If he hadn't, there would have never been a bulls dynasty.

If these kids don't start learning fundamental basketball, the league is just going to get worse.

error2k5
12-29-2007, 06:04 AM
As stated before, that's been changed.
I think the problem is the lean toward International play. Sure, I love watching those guys shoot and run, but they show no heart in the way they play (Except Ginobili). They shoot jumpers. The athletes in the league only try to go one on one and dunk or shoot a fade-away jumper. There is no true battle of wills like we had in the 80's and 90's. There's no Hakeem vs. Patrick, Jordan vs. Barkley, Shaq vs. David Robinson, Bird vs. Magic, etc. We have Nowitzki vs. Yao and the game has evolved around that type of game.


That's the point though, this league allows you to take your man 1 on 1 off the dribble all the time and still be successful. They have taken the physical nature away. You plant a hard foul on a guy and your looking at a suspension and a fine compliments of dictator stern. A guy like lebron for example flourishes in this system because he tends to bullrush right at defenders. He attacks the lane and if you even think about touching him the whistles come out WHILE your being made into a poster. Stern needs to let these guys play. It's just like afro said, all finese.

The players in this league aren't accustomed to in your face defenders that will knock you down and stop you at all costs. Look at how they react to guys like bruce bowen or raja bell. They whine and complain and make excuses instead of taking it right back at them with a smashmouth mentality.

Mr. Pink
12-29-2007, 10:17 AM
A lot of those guys are still playing what is your point!!!

They are playing, but only a couple are playing at a high level is my point.

@DonFrye, I know it's been changed but it's going to take time for the level of play to go up. And yeah Kobe, Garnett & Lebron are the exception not the rule. Teams waste first round picks on these guy who are slow to develop or never do. Now that they can't I think the level of play will increase but it will take time.

Also I believe expansion is a big problem, there are just too many teams so the talent pool is diluted and they are playing in cities that can't support them.

SimpleJack
12-29-2007, 10:20 AM
I didn't disagree with you. I was saying that there are some contributing factors involved. You can thank Iverson and Shaq for the style of Defense in the NBA at this point. They had to put the zone back in for them. The "protected" area under the rim is a joke. That's just so they can promote dunking.

Mr. Pink
12-29-2007, 10:25 AM
I didn't disagree with you. I was saying that there are some contributing factors involved. You can thank Iverson and Shaq for the style of Defense in the NBA at this point. They had to put the zone back in for them. The "protected" area under the rim is a joke. That's just so they can promote dunking.

Yeah, there are a lot of contributing factors, Alot of people have made good points. The lack of big men, undeveloped children playing, defensive rules, expansion, selfish play by divas, etc, etc.

SimpleJack
12-29-2007, 10:28 AM
They are playing, but only a couple are playing at a high level is my point.

@DonFrye, I know it's been changed but it's going to take time for the level of play to go up. And yeah Kobe, Garnett & Lebron are the exception not the rule. Teams waste first round picks on these guy who are slow to develop or never do. Now that they can't I think the level of play will increase but it will take time.

There's no doubt about the fact that it has contributed. The point I was making is that they CAN and WILL develop if the teams commit to them. Look at Jermaine O'Neal or McGrady. Those guys were out of their minds with their original teams and the teams basically just shipped them off. They went to new teams and exploded. You can add Al Harrington, Rashard Lewis, Amare Stoudemire, and Darius Miles to the list of HS players doing well. It's a matter of commitment from both the team and the player. The era of "Free Agency" is killing sports IMO and very few teams are truly surviving (Pistons notably) by using most if not all role players (Some very good at what they do) and don't have that one dedicated team guy who has been there forever who lifts his team and carries them on his shoulders.

Mr. Pink
12-29-2007, 11:41 AM
There's no doubt about the fact that it has contributed. The point I was making is that they CAN and WILL develop if the teams commit to them. Look at Jermaine O'Neal or McGrady. Those guys were out of their minds with their original teams and the teams basically just shipped them off. They went to new teams and exploded. You can add Al Harrington, Rashard Lewis, Amare Stoudemire, and Darius Miles to the list of HS players doing well. It's a matter of commitment from both the team and the player. The era of "Free Agency" is killing sports IMO and very few teams are truly surviving (Pistons notably) by using most if not all role players (Some very good at what they do) and don't have that one dedicated team guy who has been there forever who lifts his team and carries them on his shoulders.

The Pistons are a good point to what I meant talking about selfish, ego mananiacal players, they don't have any they play like a team.

As far as the highschoolers, yes some are turning into nice players but it has taken longer IMO than if they would have played at the college level and by the time they are good most are not with the team that drafted them.

Free agency is deffinately killing sports though, the dinamic of a team changes so much from year to year that it's hard to stay a fan of one team.

I live in a place where there is no NBA so I have been a T-Wolves fan because of Garnett for years, now he's gone so I have to root for the Celtics now. It was worse with Jason Kidd, I followed him from college when he played for Cal. I find myself not caring about him as much now because he has been with too many different teams and I never liked the Nets.