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View Full Version : Should the Packers allow Favre to return?



bigsmooth696969
07-03-2008, 07:47 AM
Well, good ole Brett Favre is rumored to want to return to the Packers. Do you guys think they should let him back? I personally believe that no, they should not. He retired, they moved on and devoted time and training into Aaron Rodgers. IMO, other than the "fluke" of last year, I think he has been done for the past 3 years. The Packers have placed him on IR. If he asks the Packers asking for reinstatement, they must either reinstate him or release him. There is little to no way I think they will release him but who knows.

Spain215
07-03-2008, 08:43 AM
did you agree with couture coming out of retirement?

Maniac
07-03-2008, 07:36 PM
Absolutely they SHOULD! When you think of the Packers.....what/who do you think of?? Besides cheese....it's definitely Favre! Not a Packer fan, but he DESERVES the right to do whatever he chooses.

Honestly, does anybody think he CAN'T perform at a very high level?? He's Brett freaking Favre.

bigsmooth696969
07-04-2008, 05:15 AM
Absolutely they SHOULD! When you think of the Packers.....what/who do you think of?? Besides cheese....it's definitely Favre! Not a Packer fan, but he DESERVES the right to do whatever he chooses.

Honestly, does anybody think he CAN'T perform at a very high level?? He's Brett freaking Favre.

I dont! I think he is done. I think his time has come and gone. Not so much that he isn't still a top 10 QB, more that the Packers have invested time and effort into Rodgers and if Favre comes back, you ruin Rodgers confidence in the management and team.

The whole Couture thing is totally different. Couture is not the leader of a team. He fights for himself. Favre said he was done, the pack moved on, now he wants back. I say too bad.

Maniac
07-04-2008, 05:38 AM
I dont! I think he is done. I think his time has come and gone. Not so much that he isn't still a top 10 QB, more that the Packers have invested time and effort into Rodgers and if Favre comes back, you ruin Rodgers confidence in the management and team.

The whole Couture thing is totally different. Couture is not the leader of a team. He fights for himself. Favre said he was done, the pack moved on, now he wants back. I say too bad.

I agree to an extent. BUT.....He's the the only reason the Packers have been relevant in the past 10 years..including a win in 1 of his 3 trips to the Super Bowl. He's as symbolic as he is anything else. I'd bet right now that...IF...he comes back he is top 5 for the season!

Oats420
07-04-2008, 06:35 AM
Of course the Packers should let him back if he wants to. Do they honestly believe Rodgers is the answer?

Now should Favre come back? No. He could probably have another decent year, but I don't think his heart would be all there like it was last year.

Killinginthenameof
07-04-2008, 07:17 AM
the pack is in a tough situation here. they've invested a first rounder in Rogers a few years ago.....knowing the Brett would move on. so, he finally steps down a few months ago and now he's thinking of returning to GB and everything's supposed to be peachey.

i think the pack is almost obligated to bring him back....just cuz he's a legend there and all. i don't think losing to the giants in the nfc champ game helped him any. that just wasn't the way he intended to go out. when i first heard he was leaving i just didn't think he would cuz of that last game.....it was going to stick with him for the rest of his life.

Poindexter
07-04-2008, 06:38 PM
I'd like to see him come back.

bigsmooth696969
07-04-2008, 07:37 PM
I'd like to see him come back.

I just think that it is Aaron Rodgers time. The Favre era is over. If you love the game and miss it so much, coach! Put on clinics, camps and help the next generation of players. Come on Brett, stop being selfish and move on.

Mac
07-04-2008, 08:34 PM
Fuck no! Brett is surely one of the all time greats, but having him come back for one more year after preparing the team to play behind Rodgers would be detrimental to the franchise. They could lose Rodgers, a possible franchise QB, for good and have to start all over.

If Brett wants to play again he should, just for a different team. The Packers need to take care of the Packers, not let this guy hold the team hostage because he has the itch to pay one more year.

TheBonger
07-09-2008, 06:22 AM
the answer is an easy yes. You have to put strike while the iron is hot, GB has a very nice collection of young talent and legit Super Bowl hopes you have to have the guy who gives you the best chance to go all the way in there.

LebenTysonTank
07-09-2008, 11:56 PM
He should go to the vikings...they need a qb and a vet to..they whole damn team is rookies.

pa99fighter
07-10-2008, 12:22 AM
yeah the packers should trade Favre to the Vikings or Dolphins or something. It's Rodgers time in Green Bay.

Brutus
07-10-2008, 09:14 PM
If he wants to return then you have to let him as a Packer front office. The guy has done more for green bay than green bay could ever do for him. Its the least they could do for a top 5 QB of all times. If you keep him you have one of the best in the league as your general and if you trade him, well lets see. If they are to trade him he would definitely NOT go to any NFC team, let alone the Vikings in the north. He'd be traded to an AFC team. there is no way they trade him to a NFC North team and have to deal with him 2x a year with playoff position at stake. If they let him go they wanna be sure he doesn't burn them, at least in the regular season.

on another note, arron rogers couldnt fit into brett favre's jock strap. Rodgers is unproven and for the packers to say that favre isnt good enough, not even a season removed from the game, they are out of their cholesterol filled heads. it would be like choosing a camaro over a ferrari. Favre has forgot more about football than rogers prolly will ever know.

azur_dog
07-11-2008, 02:29 AM
Beyond rumor has anyone seen anything that has farve coming back? I havent so I'm chalking it up to media jumping on a nonstory. I dont think he's seriously thinking about coming back. There's nothing left for him to do the only reason rumors around him right now is he's one of those few guys that transcend the game and makes you feel like hes a guy you could sit down and talk to just like a regular blue collar guy.

hunterkiller
07-11-2008, 10:31 PM
The Packers have placed him on IR.

He's actually on the reserved/retired list. That's not the same thing as IR. IR would prevent him from coming back no matter what while reserve/retired simply gives the team some cap space if he stays retired but they can reactivate him if he wants to return. The only thing is, if he wants to come back they have only 2 options, let him or cut him.

As for those that say trade him, it's an impossible trade to pull off. Favre has 2 years left on a backloaded deal. The Packers would take a 12 million dollar salary cap hit by trading him so they don't have a choice but to allow him to return or release him.

I say if he wants to come back, let him. Are you going to be the GM or Coach who cuts Brett Favre? Do you really want that on your resume?

Mr. Raider
07-12-2008, 02:55 AM
Last I read on espn he asked for his release from the team. I guess the GM said if he comes back he would be a backup to rodgers. I think they should release him if he wants. Then he will go to Chicago and then watch the cheeseheads go fuckin nuts. I believe he can still play and that last year wasnt a fluke, However he better get ahold of EA and tell them to leave him off the cover of Madden 09' or his comeback will be shortlived.

MYboyBISPING
07-12-2008, 07:38 PM
This situation is just sad, Farve being somewhere else then Green Bay is like Elways somewhere else but damn its getting badd. I think for some reason he will end up in Minnesota that would be crazy even though im no a Pack fan.

bigsmooth696969
07-13-2008, 08:13 PM
If he wants to return then you have to let him as a Packer front office. The guy has done more for green bay than green bay could ever do for him. Its the least they could do for a top 5 QB of all times. If you keep him you have one of the best in the league as your general and if you trade him, well lets see. If they are to trade him he would definitely NOT go to any NFC team, let alone the Vikings in the north. He'd be traded to an AFC team. there is no way they trade him to a NFC North team and have to deal with him 2x a year with playoff position at stake. If they let him go they wanna be sure he doesn't burn them, at least in the regular season.

on another note, arron rogers couldnt fit into brett favre's jock strap. Rodgers is unproven and for the packers to say that favre isnt good enough, not even a season removed from the game, they are out of their cholesterol filled heads. it would be like choosing a camaro over a ferrari. Favre has forgot more about football than rogers prolly will ever know.

Favre is a top QB in the league?? He has had 1 good season in the last 5. He is the luckiest MFers I have seen on some of his TD's.. The guy throws into triple coverage and somehow, his WR catches it. I think he sold his soul. Look what he has done for you in the last 2 NFC Championship games. Big time INT's against Philly and NY which cost you the game. I could name 8 QB's I'd take over Favre right now as it stands. Brady, Peyton, Palmer, Big Ben, Hasselbeck, McNabb, Romo, & Brees. Hell, you can even make a case for Derek Anderson if you wanna go off of one season. Brett is trying to bully the Pack into releasing him. BS!!! To me, he is the bad guy here.

hunterkiller
07-14-2008, 08:11 PM
Favre is a top QB in the league?? He has had 1 good season in the last 5. He is the luckiest MFers I have seen on some of his TD's.. The guy throws into triple coverage and somehow, his WR catches it. I think he sold his soul. Look what he has done for you in the last 2 NFC Championship games. Big time INT's against Philly and NY which cost you the game. I could name 8 QB's I'd take over Favre right now as it stands. Brady, Peyton, Palmer, Big Ben, Hasselbeck, McNabb, Romo, & Brees. Hell, you can even make a case for Derek Anderson if you wanna go off of one season. Brett is trying to bully the Pack into releasing him. BS!!! To me, he is the bad guy here.

You want to talk about a QB who's done nothing in years or a QB who chokes in the playoffs, and then bring up McNabb and Romo. Romo has single handedly ended the last 2 playoff games for the Cowboys and how long has it been since McNabb finished the year finishing all 16 games.

Brett Favre is far and away the best QB in the NFC. He's a first ballot hall of famer who if it weren't for Brady and the cheating Patriots would have been MVP of the league last year.

You seem to forget that while Favre's numbers haven't been so hot over the past few years until last year, the talent around him has also been non-existent. Favre carried that team last year. Favre should play as long as he wants to.

This is not coming from a Packers fan. I could care less about the Packers but you cannot deny what Favre has done.

bigsmooth696969
07-14-2008, 08:44 PM
You want to talk about a QB who's done nothing in years or a QB who chokes in the playoffs, and then bring up McNabb and Romo. Romo has single handedly ended the last 2 playoff games for the Cowboys and how long has it been since McNabb finished the year finishing all 16 games.

Brett Favre is far and away the best QB in the NFC. He's a first ballot hall of famer who if it weren't for Brady and the cheating Patriots would have been MVP of the league last year.

You seem to forget that while Favre's numbers haven't been so hot over the past few years until last year, the talent around him has also been non-existent. Favre carried that team last year. Favre should play as long as he wants to.

This is not coming from a Packers fan. I could care less about the Packers but you cannot deny what Favre has done.

Favre was a good player. There is NO way he is still the best in the NFC! Romo has had more yards, TD's, less INT's, higher completion %, and more wins than Favre has had in the past 2 seasons. Favre has almost as many INT's in 3 seasons as McNabb has had in his career.(79-76) What has McNabb ever had??? He had TO 1 year and they went to the Super Bowl. Favre has always had good D's, Sterling Sharpe, Dorsey Levens, Antonio Freeman, Chamura, Brooks, Ahman Green, Donald Driver, Bubba Franks, and more ProBowlers on offense, so don't tell me Favre hasn't had anyone on his team. McNabb has had TO & Westbrook.

Favre is a good QB, don't get me wrong, but he may not even be the best of his era. Manning could eclipse his records and Brady already has more rings and he is tied with Peyton. His time is over. Retire and go farm in Mississippi. Stay out of the limelight because your time has passed!

hunterkiller
07-14-2008, 09:38 PM
Favre was a good player. There is NO way he is still the best in the NFC! Romo has had more yards, TD's, less INT's, higher completion %, and more wins than Favre has had in the past 2 seasons. Favre has almost as many INT's in 3 seasons as McNabb has had in his career.(79-76) What has McNabb ever had??? He had TO 1 year and they went to the Super Bowl. Favre has always had good D's, Sterling Sharpe, Dorsey Levens, Antonio Freeman, Chamura, Brooks, Ahman Green, Donald Driver, Bubba Franks, and more ProBowlers on offense, so don't tell me Favre hasn't had anyone on his team. McNabb has had TO & Westbrook.

Favre is a good QB, don't get me wrong, but he may not even be the best of his era. Manning could eclipse his records and Brady already has more rings and he is tied with Peyton. His time is over. Retire and go farm in Mississippi. Stay out of the limelight because your time has passed!

All of those people you named are during Favre's glory years. I am only referring to the NOW! Donald Driver's a good player but would be a #2 or #3 receiver on many other talent teams in the NFL.

You should also note that stats don't mean crap in the NFL. Romo may have this or that stat but he doesn't have playoff wins.

Also, I wouldn't compare Brady and Manning to Favre in terms of era. Favre's heydey was over before they even entered the league. Rule changes that allow no contact to the receivers after 5 yards allow them greater benefits.

It's also easier for Brady when we now know the Patriots knew what the defense was going to do before they snapped the ball.

bigsmooth696969
07-14-2008, 10:48 PM
All of those people you named are during Favre's glory years. I am only referring to the NOW! Donald Driver's a good player but would be a #2 or #3 receiver on many other talent teams in the NFL.

You should also note that stats don't mean crap in the NFL. Romo may have this or that stat but he doesn't have playoff wins.

Also, I wouldn't compare Brady and Manning to Favre in terms of era. Favre's heydey was over before they even entered the league. Rule changes that allow no contact to the receivers after 5 yards allow them greater benefits.

It's also easier for Brady when we now know the Patriots knew what the defense was going to do before they snapped the ball.

Hold on, I'll name every team that Driver would be a #1 WR on:

Ravens, Jaguars, Titans, Bills, Dolphins, Chiefs, Raiders, Chargers, Bears, Vikings, Falcons, Buccaneers, Eagles, 49ers, and Seahawks.

Out of these teams, 8 of them have been in the playoffs within the last 2 years....I think that would make them talented teams. Then to mention you said #2 or #3 WR so obviously you don't know football. Driver would be a #2 WR on every team except Arizona, Cincinnati, New England, Indianapolis, and Dallas. He would be a #3 on any NFL squad. When you say something, back it up with stats or facts.

Peyton Manning entered the league in 1998, so I guess according to you, Favre has been washed up since 1998. So then he only has had 6 hey dey years??? Favre is tied for the career record for playoff INT's....WOW, thats clutch in my book!

Then you can go into the fact that during his hey dey years, he was addicted to pain pills. Hmmmmm, sounds like he absued pills and should have an * next to his stats.

hunterkiller
07-14-2008, 11:41 PM
Hold on, I'll name every team that Driver would be a #1 WR on:

Ravens, Jaguars, Titans, Bills, Dolphins, Chiefs, Raiders, Chargers, Bears, Vikings, Falcons, Buccaneers, Eagles, 49ers, and Seahawks.

Out of these teams, 8 of them have been in the playoffs within the last 2 years....I think that would make them talented teams. Then to mention you said #2 or #3 WR so obviously you don't know football. Driver would be a #2 WR on every team except Arizona, Cincinnati, New England, Indianapolis, and Dallas. He would be a #3 on any NFL squad. When you say something, back it up with stats or facts.

Peyton Manning entered the league in 1998, so I guess according to you, Favre has been washed up since 1998. So then he only has had 6 hey dey years??? Favre is tied for the career record for playoff INT's....WOW, thats clutch in my book!

Then you can go into the fact that during his hey dey years, he was addicted to pain pills. Hmmmmm, sounds like he absued pills and should have an * next to his stats.


Since when does abusing pain pills enhance performance. Do you know how many players in the NFL abuse pain pills just to make it through practice. Not to mention how many shots they use to kill the pain.

Peyton Manning did come into the league in 1998 but the Colts weren't relevant until 2-3 years later. And I didn't call Favre washed up, you did.

It's true Favre does have the record for INTs. He also holds the record for every other important offensive stat in football.

I also wasn't dumping on Donald Driver. Those teams you named that he would be a #1 receiver have horrid offenses, including my favorite team The Raiders. Yes, he could be a number 2 on alot of teams in the NFL. My point is Donald Driver is no Chad Johnson, TO or any other elite caliber receiver in the NFL. He's not the sold reason Brett Favre had a comeback last season.

I just have a hard time understanding your logic for shitting on one of the most beloved figures in sports history. He's earned the right to play for Green Bay. How long had it been in Green Bay before Favre came along that they sucked before he turned them around. His legacy is enough to get him one more year, let alone what he did last year. They were 14-2 and lost to the Super Bowl champs in the NFC championship game. They should be begging him to comeback this year.

bigsmooth696969
07-15-2008, 06:52 AM
Since when does abusing pain pills enhance performance. Do you know how many players in the NFL abuse pain pills just to make it through practice. Not to mention how many shots they use to kill the pain.

Peyton Manning did come into the league in 1998 but the Colts weren't relevant until 2-3 years later. And I didn't call Favre washed up, you did.

It's true Favre does have the record for INTs. He also holds the record for every other important offensive stat in football.

I also wasn't dumping on Donald Driver. Those teams you named that he would be a #1 receiver have horrid offenses, including my favorite team The Raiders. Yes, he could be a number 2 on alot of teams in the NFL. My point is Donald Driver is no Chad Johnson, TO or any other elite caliber receiver in the NFL. He's not the sold reason Brett Favre had a comeback last season.

I just have a hard time understanding your logic for shitting on one of the most beloved figures in sports history. He's earned the right to play for Green Bay. How long had it been in Green Bay before Favre came along that they sucked before he turned them around. His legacy is enough to get him one more year, let alone what he did last year. They were 14-2 and lost to the Super Bowl champs in the NFC championship game. They should be begging him to comeback this year.

Ok, they did ask him to come back....in March and April, going as far as to fly down to talk him back into it. He said he was ready, then called back 2 days later and said he was going to stay retired. Now all of the sudden, he wants back and he is trying to make the Pack look bad. He quit and had the chance to come back and didn't take it! Thats why I say fuck him! Favre is all about himself here. He doesn't care that the Pack moved on with a new QB, drafted 2 more in the draft, and left him as a memory. He is selfish. He took his ball and went home, now friggin deal with it!
He is just like Barry Sanders. He quit and thought he could get out of his contract and come back with another team, and just like Barry, I hope it back fires in his face! The Pack should let him back, as a backup to Rodgers and sit his ass on the bench!

The Raiders are also my favorite team and yes, they suck but I'd even take Russell over Favre at this point. Favre has lost so much respect in my eyes, and believe me, he didn't have much to begin with. He has all these passing records because the Pack wasn't the greatest of teams and played from behind on alot of occasions. His decision making is average at best, more leaning towards poor. How many times has Favre thrown into triple coverage in the last 5 years??? I'd say atleast 3 times a game. How many games have the Pack lost because of Favre's poor decision making? Hmmmm, I can name 2 NFC Championship games and since that is the closest to a SB they have gotten in 10 years, I think that is huge! Come on! He is 39 and needs to retire. Why tarnish your image now because he is doing it. I will laugh my ass off if GB goes 12-4 with Rodgers because it will show how much GB doesn't need Favre. Hell, even 8-8 is good because other than last year, Favre didn't do that in the past 3 seasons.

I don't want you to think I am jumping your shit on this matter, I just can't stand all this Favre is God BS talk. In my heart of hearts, he isn't that great of a QB and hasn't been crap other than last year, for the past 5 seasons.

hunterkiller
07-15-2008, 03:22 PM
Ok, they did ask him to come back....in March and April, going as far as to fly down to talk him back into it. He said he was ready, then called back 2 days later and said he was going to stay retired. Now all of the sudden, he wants back and he is trying to make the Pack look bad. He quit and had the chance to come back and didn't take it! Thats why I say fuck him! Favre is all about himself here. He doesn't care that the Pack moved on with a new QB, drafted 2 more in the draft, and left him as a memory. He is selfish. He took his ball and went home, now friggin deal with it!
He is just like Barry Sanders. He quit and thought he could get out of his contract and come back with another team, and just like Barry, I hope it back fires in his face! The Pack should let him back, as a backup to Rodgers and sit his ass on the bench!

The Raiders are also my favorite team and yes, they suck but I'd even take Russell over Favre at this point. Favre has lost so much respect in my eyes, and believe me, he didn't have much to begin with. He has all these passing records because the Pack wasn't the greatest of teams and played from behind on alot of occasions. His decision making is average at best, more leaning towards poor. How many times has Favre thrown into triple coverage in the last 5 years??? I'd say atleast 3 times a game. How many games have the Pack lost because of Favre's poor decision making? Hmmmm, I can name 2 NFC Championship games and since that is the closest to a SB they have gotten in 10 years, I think that is huge! Come on! He is 39 and needs to retire. Why tarnish your image now because he is doing it. I will laugh my ass off if GB goes 12-4 with Rodgers because it will show how much GB doesn't need Favre. Hell, even 8-8 is good because other than last year, Favre didn't do that in the past 3 seasons.

I don't want you to think I am jumping your shit on this matter, I just can't stand all this Favre is God BS talk. In my heart of hearts, he isn't that great of a QB and hasn't been crap other than last year, for the past 5 seasons.

I'm aware of Favre's desire to comeback and then changing his mind. The thing you have to remember is he was being pressured by the organization to hurry up and make a decision which they have a right to do.

I just think Brett Favre is still one of the best if not the best QB in the NFC and you don't just cut him loose or bench him for a guy who hasn't proven anything yet. Do you have any idea the backlash that Packers fans will give if they cut, trade or bench Favre in favor of Brohm or Rodgers and then they start losing.

Personally, I think they should cut him loose and let him go elsewhere. They can't trade him because of his huge cap number and they can't bench him because it will be a huge distraction this coming season. Who cares if he ends up in Chicago or Minnesota, they suck anyway.

You may say Favre has sucked the last five years except for last year but the fact remains that the Packers have had only one losing season since Favre has been their QB and that was 2 years ago when Ahman Green was hurt all year and they lost their entire offensive line. I could care less about stats, the guy wins football games.

Paytheplayer
07-15-2008, 09:12 PM
Should they allow him to return? Yes. As starting QB for the Packers? I don't think so. I know he won't accept a backup role, but Im just saying. It's time to turn the page with this team. Rodgers is supposed to be the future of this franchise. It wasn't fair for Favre to give his retirement speech, let the team move on, and then change his mind.

I also agree that Brett is still capable of leading a team to great things, but there's only so much uncertainty a team can take. Im not a Packers fan, and I realize how hard it might be to let him go, but you let him return for what? One more year so he can finally be sure its time to go? Then you let Rodgers rot on the bench and make zero progress once again?

bigsmooth696969
07-16-2008, 06:12 AM
Should they allow him to return? Yes. As starting QB for the Packers? I don't think so. I know he won't accept a backup role, but Im just saying. It's time to turn the page with this team. Rodgers is supposed to be the future of this franchise. It wasn't fair for Favre to give his retirement speech, let the team move on, and then change his mind.

I also agree that Brett is still capable of leading a team to great things, but there's only so much uncertainty a team can take. Im not a Packers fan, and I realize how hard it might be to let him go, but you let him return for what? One more year so he can finally be sure its time to go? Then you let Rodgers rot on the bench and make zero progress once again?

:clapping:

You let Favre back, trade Rodgers. It's only fair!

hunterkiller
07-16-2008, 05:13 PM
I think they should let Favre back with a commitment for 2 more years, no more of this offseason contemplation bullshit and trade Rogers.

IMO, Brohm will be a better QB than Rogers anyway.

Bubbles
07-16-2008, 07:57 PM
They should drop him and let him sign with another team

dan the man 67
07-16-2008, 09:52 PM
He had a great career, and he went out on a high. This whole ordeal about him wanting to come back is tainting his legacy, IMO.

"You gotta know when to fold 'em.........."

bigsmooth696969
07-17-2008, 07:41 AM
They won't drop him. Never gonna happen. They would still be liable for his salary. He isn't going to see the field and he isn't going to play again. Just like it should be.

eazye76
07-19-2008, 12:19 AM
Bret Hasn't handled this the best in the world, but I'm not going to feel sorry for a team that's like 30 mil under the cap.

goldberg_52403
07-28-2008, 08:17 PM
As a huge packers fan, hell yeah they should let him back. We were 1 game from the Super Bowl, what makes anybody think they cant do it again? With Ryan Grant (if he does re-sign) putting in a whole year, they are looking at the playoffs for sure.

Yes I am biased as a big Favre and Rodgers fan (he did awesome when Dallas took Favre out last year), but Favre has earned his right as already stated.

For crying out loud, he's Brett Freakin Favre (as someone else awesomely stated).

hunterkiller
07-28-2008, 08:23 PM
As a huge packers fan, hell yeah they should let him back. We were 1 game from the Super Bowl, what makes anybody think they cant do it again? With Ryan Grant (if he does re-sign) putting in a whole year, they are looking at the playoffs for sure.

Yes I am biased as a big Favre and Rodgers fan (he did awesome when Dallas took Favre out last year), but Favre has earned his right as already stated.

For crying out loud, he's Brett Freakin Favre (as someone else awesomely stated).

I hate to break this to you dude but Ryan Grant is a no-show at training camp as well because he wants a new contract.

The Packers won't be better than .500 without Favre, even worse without Grant who was a miracle in disguise last year coming out of nowhere.