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View Full Version : PBF overated???



Punk Ass
10-20-2006, 11:00 PM
Is it me or is PBF overrated at this point in his career? Everybody talks about how he's the P4P best but he only recieved that title because of the media. He has yet to beat anybody worth anything except for people he's supposed to beat. Don't get me wrong, he is one of the P4P best but I dont think he's the very best. It's still a debate on whether he can beat DLH or Mosely or Margarito. Because he hasn't fought anybody who people dont really know he can beat.

When RJJ was called the best P4P it was after he won the MW championship, and LHW title. After he beat BHop, James Toney, Virgil Hill, and made many good fighters look amature. No one ever tested RJJ.

At this point now PBF has been tested by JLC once and Zab won a few of those early rounds, all though Zab does have skills. The point is PBF hasn't fought any GREAT FIGHTERS and I think it's way to early in his career to be called the P4P best.

Opinions??

Dork8503
10-22-2006, 03:46 AM
to everyone his own, yes roy jones was tested but pbf has fought alot and some good fighters to.imo he is one of the best p4p they dont call him that for nothing, he did somthing right somewhere to be called that.

Punk Ass
10-22-2006, 02:47 PM
No doubt he's one of the P4P best, but I think it's too early to say he's the best!

leelandk
10-24-2006, 08:21 AM
Even if you don't think he's the p4p best, who would you put in front of him?

Punk Ass
10-24-2006, 09:44 AM
Even if you don't think he's the p4p best, who would you put in front of him?

To be honest, I'm not sure if he can beat DLH or Mosley, so I would put them in front of him at this time until they fight. Both DLH and Mosley have better Resumes at this point. And they have been fighting in higher weight classes for much longer and are stronger and have more experience in big fights.

I just dont see PBF beating those two and if he does win it wont be easy by far.

icemanct
10-24-2006, 08:45 PM
To be honest, I'm not sure if he can beat DLH or Mosley, so I would put them in front of him at this time until they fight. Both DLH and Mosley have better Resumes at this point. And they have been fighting in higher weight classes for much longer and are stronger and have more experience in big fights.

I just dont see PBF beating those two and if he does win it wont be easy by far.how long has it been since you have watched boxing

Punk Ass
10-25-2006, 10:56 AM
how long has it been since you have watched boxing

I understand what your saying, but Both Mosley and DLH moved up in weight before they lost. They ruled their natural divisions so I think the disadvantage of reach and strenth was the problem in their losses, with the exception of Mosley vs Forrest. BHop was way to big for DLH, honestly so was Vargus but it so happens DLH and Mosley is a lot more skillful. You have to remember DLH came up from 130 lb and mosley 135. Now their fighting 154 and DLH fought at 160 one time, thats crazy, if they were still in the 140 area I guarantee you nobody would beat them, because nobody could then and now they have more experience and it doesn't look like they lost a step at all. The only problem all these bigger fighter have longer reaches and their naturally stronger not to mention their some of the P4P best. Think about it, BHop is a natural MW and arguably the best MW out their and one of the P4P best, do you really think PBF can beat him???

I dont think so, but DLH had the balls to fight him and lost but he didnt lose because BHop was a better fighter, he lost because BHop was a naturally bigger fighter on top of the fact that he was so good.

Greenish
10-25-2006, 08:07 PM
From historical point of view I think PBF is very much overrated. fact that he moved so fast up to WW in chase of a big cash fight with DLH pisses me of to no end :-/

But his #1 p4p status in today's boxing is deserved, think about it: he can beautifully execute every punch in the book, excellent defence, speed, stammina...only thing not outstanding about him is punching power(and with his brittle hands can you blame him?)

Luis Cruz
10-25-2006, 08:40 PM
Today he IS the #1 p4p fighter out there. Just because you don't think he can beat a certain fighter doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the title because you're talking about guys who are naturally bigger than him. I think 147lbs was a leap for him, he's probably naturally a 140lbs fighter while they are both 154lbs who could probably still cut to 147lbs without much problem but there is still a size difference even if they're all at 147lbs. Besides Oscar isn't even active enough today to be on the list at all. Shane has been beaten by Winky and Vernon and that can't be ignored. The only person that overrates Floyd is Floyd. Calling himself the greatest p4p fighter ever is retarted and disrespectful to greats like SRR. But for now he is the best out there but if he hangs around 147 long enough he could lose that title.

leelandk
10-28-2006, 08:55 AM
Wow, you think DLH and Mosley should be ranked higher than Floyd:blink: Thats funny!!. They aren't even in the top 10. Any decent boxing fan knows that Floyd is the consensus p4p king. The only two people you can make an argument for are Winky and Pacman, but its a thin argument at that.

Afro
10-28-2006, 09:17 AM
How is mosley not Top 10?

leelandk
10-28-2006, 11:12 AM
How is mosley not Top 10?
He's top 10 in the Jr. Middle division for sure. Not P4P, because of fighters like Calzaghe, Hatton, Bell, Castillo, Barrera, Marquez, Hopkins, Taylor, Pacman, Winky, and Floyd. You would be hardpressed to find a reputable source that has Mosley in the top 10 p4p, at least I would think.

Afro
10-28-2006, 11:23 AM
He's top 10 in the Jr. Middle division for sure. Not P4P, because of fighters like Calzaghe, Hatton, Bell, Castillo, Barrera, Marquez, Hopkins, Taylor, Pacman, Winky, and Floyd. You would be hardpressed to find a reputable source that has Mosley in the top 10 p4p, at least I would think.
Sugar Shane deserves it more then Hatton does

leelandk
10-28-2006, 11:39 AM
Sugar Shane deserves it more then Hatton does

Are you joking? Hatton is undefeated and recognized as the "Ring" champ of the Jr. Welterweight division. Last year he beat Tszyu to get the "Ring" championship belt, and Kosta was a top 5 p4p fighter. Then he beat Massua to take the WBA Jr. Welter title. This year he moved up for a fight at Welter and beat Collazo for the WBA Welterweight title. And he was the "Ring" fighter of the year last year.

Punk Ass
10-28-2006, 06:10 PM
Are you joking? Hatton is undefeated and recognized as the "Ring" champ of the Jr. Welterweight division. Last year he beat Tszyu to get the "Ring" championship belt, and Kosta was a top 5 p4p fighter. Then he beat Massua to take the WBA Jr. Welter title. This year he moved up for a fight at Welter and beat Collazo for the WBA Welterweight title. And he was the "Ring" fighter of the year last year.

You can look at hatton's style and tell he's good but not that good. He's quick but a lil one dimensional and doesn't have good head movement and takes a lot of punches. Kasta was one of my favorite fighters because he has a lot of power and he's a good solid boxer. I really liked him when he knocked Zab out, but he's slow, doesn't do well when pressured, he needs space to get his punches off and he's also one dimensional. You can tell that when he fought Junior Jones (When JJ was in his prime) Hatton came back down in weight because he knew his time was numbered at higher weights. Luis Collazo gave him problems and Luis is not even that good, he beat a bunch of cans. So I agree with Afro on this.

Dork8503
10-30-2006, 10:55 PM
ive only seen one of hattons fights and it was i believe the one he fought in the united stated for the first time and he didnt impress me at all. and mosley should be ranked higher then him

leelandk
10-31-2006, 05:08 AM
Just because he didn't impress you doesn't mean Mosley should be ranked higher in the p4p rankings. Hatton still won that fight and got a WW belt out of it. Did Mosley's 4 losses impress you? I think the fact that Hatton has 0 losses is impressive. But you can think what you want. Every legitimate boxing magazine and website will not have Mosley in their top 10 p4p rankings, that should tell you something.

Punk Ass
10-31-2006, 11:43 AM
Just because he didn't impress you doesn't mean Mosley should be ranked higher in the p4p rankings. Hatton still won that fight and got a WW belt out of it. Did Mosley's 4 losses impress you? I think the fact that Hatton has 0 losses is impressive. But you can think what you want. Every legitimate boxing magazine and website will not have Mosley in their top 10 p4p rankings, that should tell you something.

Mosley also went up in weight and is fighting much bigger fighters. You should take that into account. Hatton had a bad fight when he went up one weight class and is already thinking about running back down in weight.

Luis Cruz
10-31-2006, 12:44 PM
Mosley also went up in weight and is fighting much bigger fighters. You should take that into account. Hatton had a bad fight when he went up one weight class and is already thinking about running back down in weight.

His next fight is back at 140LBS. I believe in December he's fighting for the ring and ibf jr welterweight titles. So that Collazo fight was a wakeup call.

leelandk
10-31-2006, 05:13 PM
Mosley also went up in weight and is fighting much bigger fighters. You should take that into account. Hatton had a bad fight when he went up one weight class and is already thinking about running back down in weight.

He did have a bad fight, but at the end of the day he won the fight. Thats the only thing that matters.

And Mosley went up to 154, got a lesson taught to him, and now says he wants to go back down to 147.

Punk Ass
10-31-2006, 05:42 PM
He did have a bad fight, but at the end of the day he won the fight. Thats the only thing that matters.

And Mosley went up to 154, got a lesson taught to him, and now says he wants to go back down to 147.

That's because the man is naturally 135lbs for gods sake. He's won titles in a few divisions and beat some of his opponents easily but don't you think if a fighter keep going higher and higher in weight eventually he wont be as effective? Where's the cut off point? Now stop discrediting his skills because he went up 3 weight classes. Let me see Hatton do that and still be called one of the P4P best.

leelandk
11-01-2006, 05:29 AM
That's because the man is naturally 135lbs for gods sake. He's won titles in a few divisions and beat some of his opponents easily but don't you think if a fighter keep going higher and higher in weight eventually he wont be as effective? Where's the cut off point? Now stop discrediting his skills because he went up 3 weight classes. Let me see Hatton do that and still be called one of the P4P best.

Ok, Mosley couldn't make 135 if his life depended on it right now. Mosley is a natural WW, thats 147, and he would have to cut to make that weight class. Mosley moved up because he wanted greatness, but also he outgrew those weight classes.

Punk Ass
11-01-2006, 07:39 AM
Ok, Mosley couldn't make 135 if his life depended on it right now. Mosley is a natural WW, thats 147, and he would have to cut to make that weight class. Mosley moved up because he wanted greatness, but also he outgrew those weight classes.

:lmfao: I clearly see your Boxing ignorance. A fighter doesn't out grow a weight class. He weight trains and makes himself bigger to make a higher weight. I'm not sure if you learned in school or in your personal life, but Men stop growing at 21 years of age (more or less).

History and Experts will tell you that just because you add on muscle doesn't mean that a higher weight class becomes your natural weight class. For some reason that natural weight class that people start off in is where they generate the most power. When mosley was a LW he KOed everybody with one punch KO power. Now, he has to hit opponents with an accumilation of punches to get a KO while people like Baldomir, MARGARITO, and CINTRON KO everybody with one punch KOs. This is a fact.

Other examples are Bob Foster who dominated the LHW division but when he came up to HW he just wasn't as good but if you ask a boxing historian they would say he was the best LHW ever and has the single best KO power ever. James Toney can't buy a KO and he's bigger than most HWs. Look at his MW fights and you'll see why his name is Lights Out. Same thing goes for RJJ, he just wasn't as devistating at LHW. I can go on and on. Point is Mosley is just not as effective at WW because his natural weight is LW.

Luis Cruz
11-01-2006, 03:59 PM
:lmfao: I clearly see your Boxing ignorance. A fighter doesn't out grow a weight class. He weight trains and makes himself bigger to make a higher weight. I'm not sure if you learned in school or in your personal life, but Men stop growing at 21 years of age (more or less).

History and Experts will tell you that just because you add on muscle doesn't mean that a higher weight class becomes your natural weight class. For some reason that natural weight class that people start off in is where they generate the most power. When mosley was a LW he KOed everybody with one punch KO power. Now, he has to hit opponents with an accumilation of punches to get a KO while people like Baldomir, MARGARITO, and CINTRON KO everybody with one punch KOs. This is a fact.

Other examples are Bob Foster who dominated the LHW division but when he came up to HW he just wasn't as good but if you ask a boxing historian they would say he was the best LHW ever and has the single best KO power ever. James Toney can't buy a KO and he's bigger than most HWs. Look at his MW fights and you'll see why his name is Lights Out. Same thing goes for RJJ, he just wasn't as devistating at LHW. I can go on and on. Point is Mosley is just not as effective at WW because his natural weight is LW.

Actually you're wrong. While males do pretty much stop growing around that age it doesn't mean cutting gets easier. The reason they can't make weight and move up is because their body makes it almost impossible to cut after so long. The older they get the harder it gets to cut weight unless your body has a great metabolism even when you get older (i know a couple people like that) but for the normal person your metabolism begins to slow down alot as you age making it extremely hard to cut that same weight plus you put on more weight. That's why Cotto is at 147lbs now. Not because he didn't want to fight at 140lbs but because he said making 140 is getting almost impossible for him (he's over 21). Mosely most definately wouldn't make 135lbs anymore, i guarentee it.

Punk Ass
11-02-2006, 11:29 AM
Actually you're wrong. While males do pretty much stop growing around that age it doesn't mean cutting gets easier. The reason they can't make weight and move up is because their body makes it almost impossible to cut after so long. The older they get the harder it gets to cut weight unless your body has a great metabolism even when you get older (i know a couple people like that) but for the normal person your metabolism begins to slow down alot as you age making it extremely hard to cut that same weight plus you put on more weight. That's why Cotto is at 147lbs now. Not because he didn't want to fight at 140lbs but because he said making 140 is getting almost impossible for him (he's over 21). Mosely most definately wouldn't make 135lbs anymore, i guarentee it.

OK I've heared that before. Maybe not 135, maybe 140 but it's a known fact that Mosley intentionally put on muscle to go up more weight than he needed. I think he could of made 140 without the weight training and he would be ruling the division right now, with the exception of DLH.