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View Full Version : Thoughts on traditional Ju Jitsu?



Metalhead
10-03-2009, 09:02 PM
I've done Japanese Ju Jitsu for awhile and it's definately useful but I'm wondering if anybody here thinks it's a complete waste of time? In a real fight do you think it's useful?

Punk Ass
10-04-2009, 07:54 PM
Not nearly as pracitical or good as BJJ. It's not bad IMO, but the Gracies have spent almost a decade improving it.

Edit: I meant to say Century!!!!!!!!!!

Ramma
10-04-2009, 09:11 PM
JJJ isn't useless by any means, but I think you're better off learning Judo or BJJ than JJJ. You can make any martial art affective. You just have to learn how to take the best parts of it and adapt.

Moved this to the Grappler's Forum.

Punk Ass
10-04-2009, 09:20 PM
JJJ isn't useless by any means, but I think you're better off learning Judo or BJJ than JJJ. You can make any martial art affective. You just have to learn how to take the best parts of it and adapt.

Moved this to the Grappler's Forum.I think that was one of the problems with Carlos Newton. His JJJ just wasnt good enough for the better grapplers out there.

Clark80
10-05-2009, 11:44 AM
Please define: Real fight

Japanese Jiu Jitsu is very effective as is BJJ but in a street fight you really want to avoid arm bars and pulling guard - I would suggest you train some form of stand up for that.

If you are talking competition fighting then its judo/bjj all day.

TheKidInside
10-05-2009, 09:07 PM
Please define: Real fight

Japanese Jiu Jitsu is very effective as is BJJ but in a street fight you really want to avoid arm bars and pulling guard - I would suggest you train some form of stand up for that.

If you are talking competition fighting then its judo/bjj all day.

I've told this story before on the forums but this is how I got into Judo...I was doing Kyokushin Karate for a few years, when I was 9 my dad wanted me to do Judo (as he's from the USSR he was a huge Sambo and Judo, but a submission wrestling fanatic overall). He took me to a Judo school ran by Boris Talis who is a great USSR Judoka and Sambo practitioner. I looked on the class with my dad and I kept saying "this is weird...why are they rubbing against each other" etc all that "that's so gay stuff"...Then after class my dad introduced me to the guy and said this is my son he doesn't get wrestling. Boris looked at me and said what are you going to do in a real fight? I got into a stance and attempted to throw a roundhouse kick, before my foot left the ground, he hip tossed me on my ass harder than i thought was possible...then he stood over me and said "imagine doing this in a street fight...ON THE PAVEMENT!" and I was hooked :D

Clark80
10-06-2009, 10:58 AM
I know what you mean but sometimes trying to do a hip toss in a confined space is difficult.

When I was younger I did Karate (too young to remember variant) but lost interest within weeks with all the extra steps you had to take to attack and also by the constant shouting from the teacher.

I dabbled in wing chun for a few months and really liked the small movement and impact shots.

In any street fight I would try to avoid having one in the first place. Failing that I would look to throw a quick few shots and get the hell out of there. The number of people who get stabbed or injured on the street is a great deterrant for me.

Since training MMA I haven't looked back as I feel it gives me the best of ground and stand up.

Punk Ass
10-06-2009, 01:05 PM
I know what you mean but sometimes trying to do a hip toss in a confined space is difficult.It's not hard to throw someone in the street at all IMO. Most people don't know how to avoid a throw, sprawl properly, or etc. I've seen dudes with no training at all slam the fuck out of people.

Doesn't have to be a hip toss used to get someone down, there are many different throws.

Clark80
10-06-2009, 04:18 PM
Agree that there are many throws I was thinking more along the lines of a crowd gathering around you and not having enough space to execute anything. I'm not convinced it would be my first choice either to throw and/or clinch? I've never had a street fight - I have had fights at school when I was younger and often if you ended up on the floor you were inviting head stomps...

Repenter
10-07-2009, 05:59 AM
i have no known experience in jjj... as i followed (probably the most common for americans) the path of being a wrestler who got into bjj for sub grappling, then into muy thai and boxing for mma out of that. i do use a few judo throws (and a whole plethora of wrestling suplexes/drags too).

what are the fundamental differences? i've seen the old kimura videos, but where do the goals differ in jjj from bjj?

lilfella84
10-09-2009, 05:05 PM
any form of jits is i think...but with the ju jitsu its seems like it relies heavly on keylocks and those things im much more comfortable with bjj but thats what ive put my heart into dont really know to much about the og jits

Ramma
10-10-2009, 05:32 PM
Like I said Repenter, JJJ is more like judo than it is like BJJ. My newly aquired wife (lol) took JJJ and her throws are awesome in comparison to mine, and she stopped doing JJJ for other martial arts years ago.



It's not hard to throw someone in the street at all IMO. Most people don't know how to avoid a throw, sprawl properly, or etc. I've seen dudes with no training at all slam the fuck out of people.

Doesn't have to be a hip toss used to get someone down, there are many different throws.

Yeah, I'd have to agree here. My friend and I were goofing around last 4th of July (he wanted to do an exhibition MMA match, I wasn't allowed to punch or kick though, since I knew what I was doing). Well, I'm 5'9-10 and he is about 6'3 and has 40 pounds on me easily.

I was basically tossing him all over the place. Shoots, sweeps, throws, etc. I was shocked by how easily stuff was being pulled off. It is amazing how easy it is to do something when no one knows how to defend it.

CRisCO
10-21-2009, 08:24 PM
Training any martial art is better then training non as long as u stay grounded and realize your own limitations.

I would pick Muay Thai for street fighting simply because of Elbows and clinch control. Hands break very easily when used for striking so learning to use elbows effectively is a great idea s it saves your hands.

Clark80
10-23-2009, 06:21 PM
I was recently reading about 52 blocks. The idea is interesting in terms of stand up and more so in a street situation.

Smaciman
11-01-2009, 11:47 AM
I took JJJ for 2 years a while back, and whilst I respect all the pro's of it as a self-defense martial art, I think the Sensei of the dojo is the true test of whether it's an effective Martial Art

I got extremely frustrated with always having to tell my opponent/partner how I was going to attack them, and then always having to attack in the same manner (always stepping to punch, always swinging your leg up to kick etc.), as I simply felt it wasn't realistic by any means.

However, my brother does JJJ in London, and is loving every minuet of it. From the sounds of things, he's getting a better quality education for his money. Now on the rare occasions we spar, his throws and counters are quite effective (but no match for Muay Thai & some sloppy wrestling Mwahahahahah)

housefull
01-13-2010, 02:20 AM
Please define: Real fight

Japanese Jiu Jitsu is very effective as is BJJ but in a street fight you really want to avoid arm bars and pulling guard - I would suggest you train some form of stand up for that.

If you are talking competition fighting then its judo/bjj all day.




Great work .. really informative .. and thanks a lot for sharing ..

Agentman
06-27-2010, 05:51 PM
The biggest problem I had with JJJ and most other 'traditional' martial arts is that they seem so dogmatic.

The beauty of mixed martial arts is that it innovates and isnt afraid to change and develop, people go away and cross train in other disciplines then come back and incorperate those techniques into their MMA. You dont really get that with alot of more traditional martial arts.

Another think I dislike about traditional martial arts is that theyre so expensive. It costs a fortune to do your gradings, you need loads of equipment and at the higher levels in things like JJJ you need to start investing in silly stuff like swords and what not. With MMA I need my subscription fee, my gloves, my gum shield and a pair of shorts - simples.

Its true to say that any martial art is better than none - for adrenaline conditioning more than anything else - but I see little point in spending a fortune to do something like JJJ when there are more effective disciplines out there that wont break the bank. Martial arts has developed more in the past 15 years than it did in the previous 500 and MMA is the future.

BSums
06-28-2010, 11:09 PM
I agree that JJJ is much more similar to Judo than BJJ. I used to take Judo while I was a teenager, and recently I've started JJJ. There are quite a few similarities in both. They all grew from the same root after all. The biggest difference is JJJ focuses more on stand up locks and throws, while BJJ is mostly groundwork.

Is JJJ useless as some put it? No. Some moves are outdated though, but you get that in all martial arts. Everyone seems to jump all over the BJJ bandwagon because of what they see in MMA. And while in controlled environments BJJ is king, the last thing I would ever do in the street is pull guard, or take the fight to the ground at all. Too many things can go wrong.

Anyway, there is always good and bad in all forms. Like Smaciman said, a lot depends on the instructor. Some will teach the traditional way, with all the outdated moves, while others will focus on what works and forego the rest.

Clark80
06-30-2010, 05:35 PM
I just watched Ip Man 2 and I'm going Wing Chun crazy here :)

Iron Triangle
08-18-2010, 02:50 AM
I think it is very useful. Just as much as BJJ. In all due honesty I really don't see the difference between Traditional Jiu Jitsu and it's Brazillian counterpart (other than maybe BJJ has more ways to set up a hold than Traditional).

In fact, when I went to a Muay Thai school my sensi asked if I had any Martial Arts training; I told him TJJ and he said "good, Japanese much better for self defense than BJJ. BJJ to much of a sport. JJJ is more for self defense." His words not mine.

Clark80
09-02-2010, 01:56 PM
I went to one Karate school, one Wing Chun school, 2 JJJ schools and all Sensi did not have a positive view of MMA - they classed it as a sport rather than true Martial Arts which is fine but slightly narrow minded. At the very end of the day you have enjoy what you are doing and if you are doing it for self defense then hopefully it's relevant to different situations.

At Karate & Wing Chun I asked what should I do if the fight ends up on the floor? Both times I didn't get a satisfactory response.

At JJJ they covered absolutely everything, standup, ground, weapons etc. I just fond the pace slow and the belt system slightly restrictive. I grappled with someone a belt above beginner and after I submitted him twice he complained that I wasn't wearing a GI so he couldn't grip me properly...

Otomosix
09-02-2010, 04:33 PM
I took a semester of Japanese JJ in Portland, Oregon and absolutely hated it. It was incredibly (overly) structured in stance (most of it wrong for street-defense, like punching from the hip). It reminded me alot of Tae Kwon Do. Nothing at all like BJJ.

Maybe it was just a bad school and maybe it didn't even accurately represent Japanese JJ. For me, a good school emphasizes faster, fluid (realistic) movements and less emphasis on minute details like "your foot needs to be half an inch forward" or "your wrist needs to be turned 15 degrees more counter-clockwise". Unless you just don't care about the self-defense aspect of martial arts, this kind of garbage is better left for a Japanese tea ceremony (which I think is garbage, too).