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Sakara=Excitement
02-21-2010, 02:15 AM
Rumors of Fedor Emelianenko vs Brock Lesnar in the UFC Swirl as Strikeforce Fails to Control the Narrative - Bloody Elbow (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/2/20/1319139/rumors-of-fedor-emelianenko-vs)


Poor Strikeforce is overmatched at every turn it seems. First their rather anemic live gate at Strikeforce : Miami drew heat from Zach Arnold:


Recently, there were reports regarding the lousy business that the Strikeforce event did in Florida on Pro Bowl Weekend. The Observer reported a gate of around $320,000 and only $8,000 of that was on merchandise sales. $8,000. Holy $^%! When you take a look at the payroll for fighters on the show and how much some of the talent cost, it is real hard to see how the math proved to be favorable after this event was over.

The number to focus on is that $8,000 merchandise number. That is atrocious. Itís illuminating on a couple of levels:

1.Strikeforce has no brand power and people donít watch the Strikeforce shows because itís Strikeforce. This is a long-term losing strategy.

The quandary SF is in is that a move to PPV will not likely prove to be a winner if they simply donít have the brand power to pull it off. Youíre left with CBS/Showtime financing and if it requires heavy gimmicks to attract some attention, then you canít build long-term brand power with constant short-term fixes (see: Herschel Walker). When various sports media outlets covered Walkerís fight and the Rex Ryan middle-finger incident, ESPN commentators and hosts kept calling it "the Miami MMA show." Strikeforce as a brand was not on anyoneís mind.


2.I remember doing a long transcription of an interview Dan Henderson did on Sherdog right after he signed with Strikeforce and he mentioned that one of the big attractive points he saw with SF was their ability to let him sell Clinch Gear products at SF shows. Well, if SF is generating $8,000 for merchandise at a show, all I can say is that selling Clinch Gear merchandise will not prove to be a wildly profitable venture for him.

And then in the absence of the news everyone is waiting to hear -- the date, broadcast venue and opponent for Fedor Emelianenko's next fight -- crazy rumors are swirling so loud they have to be debunked. Mike Chiappetta at MMA Fighting described the news vacuum and revealed that Fedor Emelianenko won't begin training until he is given a fight date:


While the pairing of Emelianenko and Werdum is expected to materialize, another source told MMA Fighting that with eight weeks remaining until the possible fight date, Emelianenko has not yet begun his training, and is not expected to do so until he gets official word of the date. The source said Emelianenko would prefer eight weeks of notice, but could still emerge fully prepared with six weeks.

Earlier this week, a wishful thinking rumor emerged on the UG forum saying that because Fedor and M-1's agreement with Strikeforce guarantees his fights will be aired on CBS, that contract is void and the UFC is in negotiations to book Fedor vs Brock Lesnar in July. That rumor was virulent enough to get officially denied:


Fedor Emelianenko not fighting on the April CBS card and Jerry Millen released from M1 rumors debunked:

"As Vadim Finkelchtein just told me in a live telephone conversation no changes regarding the participation of Fedor Emelianenko in his fight in April, and about Jerry Millen and M-1, no changes. There is no understanding of the source of misinformation."

Then Chris Pappas of Nashville MMA emerged with this rumor on his twitter feed:


"Just to recap. Strikeforce in Nashville 4/17. CBS. No Fedor. Hendo vs Shields. Good chance Herschel Walker and Bobby Lashley on card."
All of these rumors are most definitely NOT to be taken seriously, but they show the way that mis- and disinformation can multiply when a promotion like Strikeforce isn't laying out a clear narrative by making official event announcements in a timely manner.

GL Jeff
02-21-2010, 02:32 AM
SF needs to make Fedor vs. AO happen.And pair Werdum with Bobby. Then give Hershel Sylvia and see if they can build Timmay up.

hurt80
02-21-2010, 04:43 AM
i like that there is another org out there but im afraid they will not be around much longer. they dont book fights till a couple weeks before it happens and it doesnt seem like anyone at SF really knows whats going on. the way they do buisiness is just not on a professional level. and their shows quality is not improving it just stays the same it just feels generic, maybe they will get better but i dont think they will be around long enough to find out....i hope im wrong

the_dark_angel_4ever
02-21-2010, 08:08 AM
SF needs to make Fedor vs. AO happen.And pair Werdum with Bobby. Then give Hershel Sylvia and see if they can build Timmay up.

Not a bad idea, but if the athletic commissions wouldn't sanction Sylvia vs Sims they sure as hell wont allow Sylvia vs Walker.

I think the problem is that Fedor cost SF too much money and they're putting off his fights until they can generate revenue. They NEED to have the Fedor vs AO fight to let Fedor get the belt and then they can market him like crazy and get some fan support. The problem though is that means paying Fedor for 2 fights before really seeing any kind of pay off

Lok Bresnar
02-21-2010, 08:36 AM
It takes time to develop stars in the American market. Strikeforce has no real present superstar to market to fans. They basically have to develop the stars which is almost impossible because everybody gets knocked out. And you can't build stars when they're getting knocked out. It's gonna be rough.

notBJpenn
02-21-2010, 08:43 AM
It's the beginning of the end for Strikeforce. Moussai will be in the UFC soon, as will Overeem, then Fedor will follow.

Badluck33
02-21-2010, 03:22 PM
Right now Dana White is watching re-runs of "Happy Days" lighting up cigars with $100.00 bills.

because he can.

Anyone who didn't predict this is ignorant to the fact. No one right now should think about competing with the UFC. It wont work. New promos should try and be stepping stones for the UFC with guys that have no or barely any pro records. Like a Triple A for baseball. That idea would work. Its an area that UFC doesn't touch but will one day. And when they do, that door will close as well.

Pride r.i.p
bodog r.i.p
EliteXC r.i.p
Affliction r.i.p

When will people learn?

Strikeforce was doing fine until they bite more than they can chew. And fighters taking advantage of them is whats going to put them into the ground. I feel bad to say this but i dont see strikeforce lasting past 2010.

TBEAR
02-21-2010, 03:29 PM
It's the beginning of the end for Strikeforce. Moussai will be in the UFC soon, as will Overeem, then Fedor will follow.

SF is on a very slippery slop, and prob going down the hill already. I guess the good news is we COULD get the Fedor brock fight and Moussai would have some real good fights.


The problem if SF goes away , is half there fighter have already been cut from the UFC...so where do they go?

Cyborg, Gina, Toughhill will fight where?

notBJpenn
02-21-2010, 05:26 PM
SF is on a very slippery slop, and prob going down the hill already. I guess the good news is we COULD get the Fedor brock fight and Moussai would have some real good fights.


The problem if SF goes away , is half there fighter have already been cut from the UFC...so where do they go?

Cyborg, Gina, Toughhill will fight where?

I think it will just be a matter of time before the UFC has a women's division. If they make a women' TUF they could get a lot of talent.

binimac
02-21-2010, 06:43 PM
we wont be seeing Fedor in the ufc until that contract has run out with M-1.....thats just how it is.....but the good news is just a few more fights until its time to negotiate again....then who knows

GangGreenWarrior
02-21-2010, 07:01 PM
It just seems like too many companies are mistakenly thinking that they can survive off "real" mma fans and not have a huge casual mma fan following. The Fedor Paradox is that you need to show what he's done to get people excited about him and all his best fights are owned by the UFC now. Coincidentally, this reason is also why you haven't seen any non-grainy versions of Anderson Silva being subbed.

The UFC has too much in place right now for anyone to easily challenge them. TUF and UFNs ensure that their younger stars are getting the much needed exposure. The countdowns and Unleashed shows help hype up future events and even showing the undercards adds up.

Here are some interesting questions: What happens to Hendo if SF folds? Will Fedor jump to yet another sinking ship? How small will AO be if he's forced to fight in the states and be subjected to testing?

maxp84z
02-21-2010, 08:27 PM
SF is on a very slippery slop, and prob going down the hill already. I guess the good news is we COULD get the Fedor brock fight and Moussai would have some real good fights.


The problem if SF goes away , is half there fighter have already been cut from the UFC...so where do they go?

Cyborg, Gina, Toughhill will fight where?

They'll end up fighting at Larrys fish, chips and cage fighting in jerkwater, Louisiana.

Seriously tho, Hershel Walker vs Jose Canseco will save the org.

Xanatos
02-21-2010, 09:46 PM
is that ricky gervais next to nick diaz in your sig picture lol?

goodtimes
02-22-2010, 02:26 AM
http://http://www.watchkalibrun.com/2010/2/5/1296908/strikeforce-miami-live-gate

They kind of leave out the 700k in television fees that Strikeforce made. I don't see how this is "proof" that Strikeforce is going under, it takes more then 3 or so cards for a promoter to make a name for itself.

bluerinosg
02-22-2010, 07:25 AM
Strikeforce was doing fine until they started to act like a major competitor to the UFC. They were doing fine when they were like the "minor league" of mma in the US.

I bet Hendo is getting worried about leaving the UFC but I think they will let him rejoin for less money when SF goes down. Its a win/win situation for the UFC.

Fedor needs to just give up, come fight Brock, get beat and go retire as one of the greatest fighters of all time.

Rambo
02-22-2010, 07:26 AM
Strikeforce was doing fine until they started to act like a major competitor to the UFC. They were doing fine when they were like the "minor league" of mma in the US.

I bet Hendo is getting worried about leaving the UFC but I think they will let him rejoin for less money when SF goes down. Its a win/win situation for the UFC.

Fedor needs to just give up, come fight Brock, get beat and go retire as one of the greatest fighters of all time.

Fedor get beat by Lesnar? Lesnar will be lucky to leave that cage alive when Fedor gets a hold of him!

evergleam
02-22-2010, 08:33 PM
Even IF Fedor and Brock could be their respective next fight I don't think that Dana would want Brock to fight Fedor after being sick for so long. It wouldn't be the smartest thing to do.

It's interesting that just a few weeks ago some people here were saying that SF is a strong competitor, and even that SF puts on better shows. While I do think that a lot of SF shows are very good, I saw this coming from a mile away.

I'm not bashing anyone for their opinion, I'm just saying that I was waiting for something like this to come up.

Fedorlei Gomipierre
02-22-2010, 08:52 PM
I think UFC'll get Mousasi alot sooner than Fedor because he's out from under the M1 cloud and with the massive amount of losses Strikeforce looks to be gaining, they don't look to be a very "long term" company and it looks as if Gegard sees the writing on the wall.

I've read alot of stuff about guys like Shields and Diaz being unhappy with Strikeforce and wanting to eventually land in the UFC and when you see the utter disorganization within their card development and buildup to big cards, I don't think Strikeforce really looks all too good.

I could very well see Diaz, Mo, Shields, Melendez, Lawler, Big Foot, Rogers and Lashley in the UFC within two years.

I think Strikeforce really needs to get their brand in finer organization if they want to succeed and they don't seem to care to do this and the results may be alot of guys leaving due to faulty leadership....

I find it quite hard to believe Fedor will ever fight in the UFC, or at the very least SO SOON, since he seems to have a cash cow of copromotion with Strikeforce on CBS, however if they're fucking around and waiting, I COULD see Fedor just go to Japan and fight Barnett and Overeem on his way to awesome paydays and independence via copromotion.

Overeem will NEVER fight in the UFC, let alone the states, for obvious reasons.

If these numbers are true, along with the paydays, I can't see them being viable too much longer, which I think I posted the identical post last year at this very time about AFFLICTION. I guess we'll wait and see.

mma #1 fan
02-22-2010, 09:01 PM
Right now Dana White is watching re-runs of "Happy Days" lighting up cigars with $100.00 bills.

because he can.

Anyone who didn't predict this is ignorant to the fact. No one right now should think about competing with the UFC. It wont work. New promos should try and be stepping stones for the UFC with guys that have no or barely any pro records. Like a Triple A for baseball. That idea would work. Its an area that UFC doesn't touch but will one day. And when they do, that door will close as well.

Pride r.i.p
bodog r.i.p
EliteXC r.i.p
Affliction r.i.p

When will people learn?

Strikeforce was doing fine until they bite more than they can chew. And fighters taking advantage of them is whats going to put them into the ground. I feel bad to say this but i dont see strikeforce lasting past 2010.

what no IFL

rivethead
02-22-2010, 09:16 PM
I'm noobjacking this based simply on the level of writing and the lack of factual news. A story about rumors that perpetuates the rumors while pretending to be above them?

That is to journalism what reality television is to acting.

rh

Sakara=Excitement
02-23-2010, 02:28 AM
Rumors About Fedor Emelianenko Fighting Alistair Overeem Mounting As Strikeforce Does Nothing to Clarify - Bloody Elbow (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/2/22/1322121/rumors-about-fedor-emelianenko)


From Fight Opinion:


One report states that Strikeforce will run an event in Nashville, Tennessee on 4/17 with Jake Shields vs. Dan Henderson as the main event, along with Bobby Lashley (and Herschel Walker?) on the fight card. Fedor is not expected to appear at the event.

Henderson vs. Shields should be fine and I don't see how Fedor on the fight card would have been a huge plus. Sure, it would be nice to see him fight Alistair Overeem, but I've always counted on that fight happening in DREAM because of the amount of money that K-1 could put up to make that fight happen. A suggestion perhaps - have the fight happen in Japan on the same day as a Strikeforce CBS event and just air the taped fight on the CBS telecast that same day.

From HeadKickLegend:


The fight that every fan has been calling for of late has been Alistair Overeem vs. Fedor Emelianenko, be it in the Japanese ring under the DREAM banner, or in the United States under the Strikeforce banner. The initial reports of the April Strikeforce card was it being headlined by Fedor vs. Fabricio Werdum, which has seemingly fallen through. Insiders have mentioned the amount of money involved in booking Emelianenko, including a seemingly uneven "co-promotion" with M-1 Global.

What we know so far about future plans for DREAM and Alistair Overeem is that Tanigawa has mentioned that Alistair Overeem will fight for the vacant DREAM Heavyweight title during the first half of 2010, and Overeem mentioned fighting for FEG in March or so, fulfilling his contract with K-1. FEG is never afraid to put a lot of money on the table when it comes to big fights, with Alistair Overeem the biggest name in heavyweight MMA in Japan right now and Emelianenko making a name for himself in the United States over the past few years. K-1 offered Emelianenko a contract worth well over a million dollars when his contract with PRIDE was up a few years ago. Emelianenko's stock has risen over the past few years, with international success, but with Fedor's recent fight contracts looking at around $2.3 million when all is said and done ($300,000 to Fedor, $1mil to M-1 co-promotion, $1mil to Vadim for 'consulting'), this fight could come at a steep price.

Again, the point isn't really the content of these rumors. It's that they're swirling around out there and Strikeforce is saying nothing on the record to debunk them. That's failing PR 101.

One well known MMA reporter I spoke with today said, "it's like (Strikeforce) dropped off the planet."

mma #1 fan
02-23-2010, 02:30 AM
as long as people are talking about strikforce i think scott is happy

rivethead
02-23-2010, 03:19 AM
Yeah, but I'm still not having the main page cluttered up with multiple threads about shit that everyone already knows are rumors.

What the fuck is wrong with MMA journalists lately? There was a major PPV two fucking days ago, and they can't find any actual factual shit to write about? Between this and "Ooooh, Frank Mir said mean things about lesnar" it's like listening to my 13 year old neice talk on the phone.


Sakara, I'm not talking shit about you--if you didn't post it, someone else would--I'm just saddened that melodrama has found such a comfortable home in the sport I love.

I wonder if other subcultures get this nonsense. Like if the curling community gets ripped apart by rumors, or biatheletes want each other to die in the snow and shit, and we just don't hear about it, because we're out of the loop.

rh

Badluck33
02-23-2010, 02:40 PM
Yeah, but I'm still not having the main page cluttered up with multiple threads about shit that everyone already knows are rumors.

What the fuck is wrong with MMA journalists lately? There was a major PPV two fucking days ago, and they can't find any actual factual shit to write about? Between this and "Ooooh, Frank Mir said mean things about lesnar" it's like listening to my 13 year old neice talk on the phone.


Sakara, I'm not talking shit about you--if you didn't post it, someone else would--I'm just saddened that melodrama has found such a comfortable home in the sport I love.

I wonder if other subcultures get this nonsense. Like if the curling community gets ripped apart by rumors, or biatheletes want each other to die in the snow and shit, and we just don't hear about it, because we're out of the loop.

rh

i guess the lack of current mma news and the absence of Fedor gives reason for writers to bullshit about nothing?

rivethead
02-23-2010, 03:58 PM
I could understand that if a major org didn't have a PPV card three frigging days ago, where


Cain not only beat Nog, but beat him in a way that dispelled his "pillowfist" mismoniker
Bader beat a journeyman Jardine, bringing him to the fringes of relevance
Sotiropoulos beat a journeyman Stevenson, bringing him to the fringes of relevance and forcing 1000's of people to learn to spell [or at least cut-and-paste] his name.
Bisping and Wandi looked better than I thought either of them would
Lytle scored something like his 9th fight bonus out of 10 fights or something


I'd say that any of that has more legs than melodrama and rumors...but melodrama and rumors have carved a comfortable niche in the industry, and don't seem to be going away soon.

rh

TBEAR
02-23-2010, 04:47 PM
Chris record...good catch Rivethead...7 OF the Night honors, Plus the war with Marcus Davis was in the running for fight of the year i think.

Win Brian Foster Submission (Kneebar) UFC 110: Nogueira vs. Velasquez 02010-02-21 February 21, 2010 1 1:41 Sydney, Australia Won Submission of the Night Honors

Win Kevin Burns Decision (Unanimous) The Ultimate Finale 9 02009-06-20 June 20, 2009 3 5:00 Las Vegas, Nevada Won Fight of the Night Honors

Loss Marcus Davis Decision (Split) UFC 93: Franklin vs. Henderson 02009-01-17 January 17, 2009 3 5:00 Dublin, Ireland Won Fight of the Night Honors

Win Paul Taylor Decision (Unanimous) UFC 89: Bisping vs. Leben 02008-10-18 October 18, 2008 3 5:00 Birmingham, England Won Fight of the Night Honors

Loss Josh Koscheck Decision (Unanimous) UFC 86: Jackson vs. Griffin 02008-07-05 July 5, 2008 3 5:00 Las Vegas, Nevada, United States

Win Kyle Bradley TKO (Punches) UFC 81: Breaking Point 02008-02-02 February 2, 2008 1 0:33 Las Vegas, Nevada, United States Won Knockout of the Night Honors

Loss Thiago Alves TKO (Cut) UFC 78: Validation 02007-11-17 November 17, 2007 2 5:00 Newark, New Jersey, United States Won Fight of the Night Honors

Win Matt Brown Submission (Guillotine Choke) UFL Ė United Fight League 02007-08-11 August 11, 2007 2 2:49 Indiana, United States

Win Jason Gilliam Submission (Triangle Kimura) UFC 73: Stacked 02007-07-07 July 7, 2007 1 2:15 Sacramento, California Won Submission of the Night Honors

Loss Matt Hughes Decision (Unanimous) UFC 68: Uprising 02007-03-03 March 3, 2007 3 5:00 Columbus, Ohio, United States

Loss Matt Serra Decision (Split) The Ultimate Fighter 4 Finale 02006-11-11 November 11, 2006 3 5:00 Las Vegas, Nevada, United States Lost TUF 4: Welterweight

Win Ross Mason Submission (Rear Naked Choke) CR 15 Ė Adrenalin Rush 02006-02-04 February 4, 2006 2 4