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View Full Version : Is BJ truely untouchable?



TBEAR
03-04-2010, 08:20 PM
At LW BJ has proven he is the best in the world. What does it take to beat BJ?

Grappling:
BJ is a monster on the ground. His BJJ is truely world class. At LW, I am not sure if anyone can take BJ down. His TDD is the best I have seen in the divison by far. Lets say you get him down, then what. You are in his world. A much larger Hughes took him down and GSP, but those were out of the LW divison. I do not think the Aokis, Manyards, Griffins of the LWs can take him down and if they do they get tapped pretty quick IMO.

So you choose to stand:
BJs boxing is very crisp, powerful and fast. Just asl Sherk who BJ jabbed to death, or the nightmare who was reduced to a bleeding pile or scraps and cuts. Plus lets not forget that BJ has a GREAT Chin.

So what is the type fighter who can beat BJ? A better boxer get took down and looses and a better Grappler gets crushed on the feet.

So who is it guys, who drops BJ first, a grappler or a strikerand why ?

EDIT, There should be a third option of noone beats BJ

Trojan Fight Club
03-04-2010, 09:05 PM
I went with Striker just because of the whole punchers chance. I don't think anyone could pick apart BJ's game grappler or striker, so I just went with the one who has a better chance of getting lucky.

Xtremo
03-04-2010, 09:08 PM
I chose grappler because GSP was able to take him down numerous times...so a fighter with GSP's caliber of wrestling can probably edge out a decision....BJ was not able to get GSP in any kind of submission....I don't think he even tried because he gassed....

so a great and powerful lightweight wrestler can beat BJ...I just don't know who he is...and BJ has to not have taken the fight seriously...kinda like with GSP (like when BJ went on some vacation during his training schedule and got called by Dana in the countdown episodes to GSP- Penn 2)

Edit: Damn!...just thought of Jose Aldo at 155...he might have a chance at BJ with his striking...

Y2JUBAE
03-04-2010, 09:08 PM
Vaseline is his kryptonite.

TBEAR
03-04-2010, 10:02 PM
I chose grappler because GSP was able to take him down numerous times...so a fighter with GSP's caliber of wrestling can probably edge out a decision....BJ was not able to get GSP in any kind of submission....I don't think he even tried because he gassed....

so a great and powerful lightweight wrestler can beat BJ...I just don't know who he is...and BJ has to not have taken the fight seriously...kinda like with GSP (like when BJ went on some vacation during his training schedule and got called by Dana in the countdown episodes to GSP- Penn 2)

Edit: Damn!...just thought of Jose Aldo at 155...he might have a chance at BJ with his striking...

I said in the first post Hughes and GSP took him down but that is not in LW.....I dont see any LW being able to manhandle BJ. Just my thoughts

GSP used his size advantage so did hughes

Tyreas
03-04-2010, 11:40 PM
Age will beat BJ before any fighter does(at LW). When that time comes around its most likely going to be a well rounded fighter that makes the fight a standup war. BJ, being a touch slower, loses the standup. Loss via decision.

TBEAR
03-05-2010, 12:22 AM
Age will beat BJ before any fighter does(at LW). When that time comes around its most likely going to be a well rounded fighter that makes the fight a standup war. BJ, being a touch slower, loses the standup. Loss via decision.

I agree BJ will leave the LW divsion before he looses

TBEAR
03-05-2010, 12:44 AM
I went with Striker just because of the whole punchers chance. I don't think anyone could pick apart BJ's game grappler or striker, so I just went with the one who has a better chance of getting lucky.

true

initial_zen
03-05-2010, 01:13 AM
I went with striker because with bj's take down defense i dont see many people taking him down and holding him down at 155. plus he has a great ground game too.

mmawolverine
03-05-2010, 01:43 AM
i truly believe if serra got on a real diet he could give bj and the fans a very fun fight, most would disagree with me but i really want to see them fight again at any weight.

Xtremo
03-05-2010, 04:00 AM
I said in the first post Hughes and GSP took him down but that is not in LW.....I dont see any LW being able to manhandle BJ. Just my thoughts

GSP used his size advantage so did hughes

I know...but thats why I said a fighter with a very high level of wrestling who is powerful and fights at 155 like gsp and hughes, but not them exactly....but yea, there are no 155ers that would give him trouble right now...

TBEAR
03-05-2010, 01:41 PM
ok isee your point

dan the man 67
03-05-2010, 03:27 PM
I would have to say that at LW, BJ is untouchable at the level he is at right now. He seems to be light years ahead of anyone else in the division. Anytime it looks like he has a formidable opponent, he just totally annihilates them, in the same fashion that GSP does to WWs, and Silva does to MWs.

The only person who will beat BJ at LW is BJ himself. If he starts to lose motivation, or he gets too old to stay at the level he's at.

Kimbo> Rampage
03-05-2010, 08:48 PM
everybody can be knocked out. but it would be VERY hard for somebody at LW or WW to KO bj. he wouldn't be at a disadvantage in the standup to anybody. and i would bet anything that we will never see bj subbed in the cage. that being said, the answer is neither. it is a GREAT wrestler who is also very good on the ground and has a strong gnp, like gsp did. GSP is not a better striker or bjj practitioner than bj. BJ arguably has the best TD defense in the game (top5 for sure). But GSP has great wrestling and was able to take bj down like no1 before, he has a great ground game and sick conditioning on top of that. the greasing accusation is up for debate and i hope we will find out the truth someday. i wouldn't be shocked if it was true. GSP looks greasy when he fights.

Aoki is dangerous on the ground, He would not be able to sub bj, and would get destroyed standing up. Alvarez has good standup with power and solid skill, but bj is still better and could beat him anyway he wanted to. i dont think anybody at 155 or 170 can beat bj besides GSP. If bj stood with anderson he would lose, but im not going up to 185 yet, and if bj gets him down it could be dangerous.

rivethead
03-05-2010, 09:43 PM
I chose grappler because GSP was able to take him down numerous times...so a fighter with GSP's caliber of wrestling can probably edge out a decision....BJ was not able to get GSP in any kind of submission....I don't think he even tried because he gassed....

There is a difference between gassing and having someone specifically attack your thoracic cavity.

rh

rexthedog
03-06-2010, 12:33 AM
Aoki is dangerous on the ground, He would not be able to sub bj.

disagree to an extent with this statement, not saying if they thought i think aoki would win but i think he could sub him, if anybody, it'd be shinya

The Return Of......
03-06-2010, 12:35 AM
p4p i dont think anyone is above bj

Xtremo
03-06-2010, 04:33 AM
There is a difference between gassing and having someone specifically attack your thoracic cavity.

rh

I don't understand what you mean by attacking the thoracic cavity...do you mean like hitting someone in the thoracic cavity area?

or

do you mean like taking someone down repeatedly so they would get tired by trying to stuff takedowns themselves (stuffing takedowns would get them tired in that thoracic cavity area)

or....idk

had to google thoracic cavity...lol

I want to understand your comment... me learning something new never hurts

rivethead
03-06-2010, 01:13 PM
I want to understand your comment... me learning something new never hurts

In the first fight, both Penn and GSP gassed. Since that point, Penn's conditioning--though maligned by his detractors--has been above reproach. People are always calling for him to gas, but he's actually extremely conditioned.

After the second fight, GSP explained that he and Greg Jackson consulted a team of doctors to specifically come up with a game plan to neutralize the areas where Penn has him edged. They explained that someone with Penn's flexibility is going to be more vulnerable in his thoracic cavity, and together they came up with--literally--the perfect game plan to beat Penn. In the first round, GSP doesn't make any attempt to stand and trade with Penn, he simply tries takedown after takedown until he finally scores. Immediately, he puts weight on Penn's thoracic cavity and begins working Penn's shoulders. The weight on the cavity prevents BJ from getting any oxygen, starving his muscles in general, meaning he's going to need to hyperventilate to oxygenate them again. The efforts on BJ's shoulders drains the blood from them, effectively removing the pop from Penn's jab, making it less of a risk for GSP to shoot later.

This process is repeated in the second and later rounds, where Georges is able to pass guard enough to put a knee directly in the cavity, bearing down with all his weight, preventing Penn from oxygenating his muscles.

To someone who didn't know what Georges was specifically doing, it looks like Penn gasses. Watching it again, after he explains it, it's like watching a surgery...all the skill, all the technology, all the planning coming together like a perfect storm.

rh

Xtremo
03-06-2010, 09:39 PM
In the first fight, both Penn and GSP gassed. Since that point, Penn's conditioning--though maligned by his detractors--has been above reproach. People are always calling for him to gas, but he's actually extremely conditioned.

After the second fight, GSP explained that he and Greg Jackson consulted a team of doctors to specifically come up with a game plan to neutralize the areas where Penn has him edged. They explained that someone with Penn's flexibility is going to be more vulnerable in his thoracic cavity, and together they came up with--literally--the perfect game plan to beat Penn. In the first round, GSP doesn't make any attempt to stand and trade with Penn, he simply tries takedown after takedown until he finally scores. Immediately, he puts weight on Penn's thoracic cavity and begins working Penn's shoulders. The weight on the cavity prevents BJ from getting any oxygen, starving his muscles in general, meaning he's going to need to hyperventilate to oxygenate them again. The efforts on BJ's shoulders drains the blood from them, effectively removing the pop from Penn's jab, making it less of a risk for GSP to shoot later.

This process is repeated in the second and later rounds, where Georges is able to pass guard enough to put a knee directly in the cavity, bearing down with all his weight, preventing Penn from oxygenating his muscles.

To someone who didn't know what Georges was specifically doing, it looks like Penn gasses. Watching it again, after he explains it, it's like watching a surgery...all the skill, all the technology, all the planning coming together like a perfect storm.

rh

I will need a link please (just playing, bro)....wow, I didn't know GSP and his team came up with such a plan...thanx for the information bro...


To someone who didn't know what Georges was specifically doing, it looks like Penn gasses.
In this sentence, it makes it sound like BJ did not gas....so one last thing, did BJ gas or not then?
(I think yes)

TBEAR
03-06-2010, 09:44 PM
Look at BJs fights since GSP, his cardio was the best we have seen it againest the nightmare. After the fourth he was still jumpingaround like a caged animal. BJs gastank is good if not great....

rivethead
03-06-2010, 10:41 PM
I will need a link please (just playing, bro)....wow, I didn't know GSP and his team came up with such a plan...thanx for the information bro...

In this sentence, it makes it sound like BJ did not gas....so one last thing, did BJ gas or not then?
(I think yes)

If your definition of gassing is that someone came in underconditioned and wore themselves out in the normal course of a fight, then no, he did not gas.

St. Pierre specifically attacked his ability to normally oxygenate his system, which effectively exhausted him. You could think of it as a long-term choke.

rh

Kemo
03-06-2010, 11:04 PM
Yeah, being smothered is definitely different from being tired.

Xtremo
03-06-2010, 11:14 PM
If your definition of gassing is that someone came in underconditioned and wore themselves out in the normal course of a fight, then no, he did not gas.

My definition of gassing is when someone gets tired during their fight...and don't fight the same as the fight goes on like when they did earlier in the fight...like Sokodjou (agasint Cane), Baroni (against Sadollah) and Silva (agasint Evans)...


St. Pierre specifically attacked his ability to normally oxygenate his system, which effectively exhausted him. You could think of it as a long-term choke.

So basically GSP was the cause for BJ getting exhausted....not himself...okay, now I get it...I said BJ gassed(which he did)...but it just sounded like it was BJ's fault...when it was GSP's master plan...

TBEAR
03-07-2010, 02:17 AM
if BJ gassed or not does not matter in this thread.....he got beat by a huge WW not a LW

lwbrewer
03-15-2010, 07:54 AM
Who will beat BJ first BJ himself will !!

TBEAR
03-15-2010, 02:55 PM
^^agree