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View Full Version : Supplements, good ones?



Luis Cruz
12-02-2006, 02:48 PM
Ok since i made this forum just now, i figured i'd start this by asking a question. I haven't lifted hard since early-mid 2000 at which time i use the muscletech stack (nortestan, androstiene, anotestan, hydroxycut, cell tech, and nitro tech, spelling is probably off) and i put on about 40lbs in an 8 week period. Now granted i was on ship in the Marine Corps, so i didn't have much to do and i ate 6 times a day and was at the gym for no less than 3 hours a day, so i got the max results i could get from it. Nortestan was illegal for a while, they considered it a steriod and you had to order it thru Canada but then it finally got legalized here. So all those combined made for a hell of a steriod and did it so it was legal. The bad thing was, i drank a ton of fluids especially water but in the middle of the night a lot of time i got an extremely sharp pain in my stomach or somewhere around there and it killed for about 5 minutes (or felt like 5). I have no idea what caused it but it couldn't be good whatever was happening. Now i know they took a lot of shit off the shelves and redid the ingredients and they sell for a lot cheaper now which makes me think all the shit that made me big has been removed for health reasons. Now my question is, what can i buy as far as supplements, creatine drink (like cell tech), and protein drink to get results that are quick and great, not some imposter shit? As far as physically looking, i was bulked up and shredded back then and it didn't take me long to get the results, i'm looking for the same thing to happen now. Any help would be greatly appreciated. But PLEASE do not tell me something if you haven't tried yourself and seen results or know someone that has, i also don't care if they're your sponsors, i just want results from real good shit! lol

Also, Clint will have a lot of info on these forums because if i'm not mistaken he has taken classes about nutrition and stuff like that in college so he's the go to guy and will probably answer most questions.

Hypergit
12-02-2006, 02:57 PM
Just unflavoured whey powder (much better value than any brand), and creatine EE with calcium casinate before bed. Waxy maise starch is the best for a post-workout drink (you'd be lucky to find that in a branded product). Combined with good diet, I can put muscle on as fast as I like with just basics like this but it depends on body type I suppose.

I've always considered branded products to be overpriced and unnecessary. There is no 'one size fits all' formula (contrary to what supplement industry spin dictates) so much better to start off with bulk supplies of the basics and build up your own formula one step at a time imo.

Oh, I get nice results from ZMA also - worth a trial.

Edit - Luis, you're over 30 right? In that case you probably won't get results as fast as when you were younger due to hormonal changes. You should try to inhibit oestrogenics and boost testosterones and HGH.

Vitamin 'S' would be the typical mma solution, but I use red grape seed extract (anti-oestrogenic + reduces DOMS), Cissus Quadrangularis (contains ketosterone & catabolism inhibitors), and for HGH: velvet bean powder (good shit - test boost also), esterised Arginine and ornithine aminos (must be taken on a completely empty stomach before bed), and Gaba (slightly naughty but effective).

Clint
12-02-2006, 05:18 PM
The main supps I like are:
* Fish Oil Capsules - These are good for you in a ton of different ways
* Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey
* Dextrose or Powdered Gatorade
* I just use CNC brand pure creatine
* A Casein Based Protein or Milk Protein Isolate (Muscle Milk is good but a bit pricey)
* A ZMA supplement (most people are defient in zinc which is neccisary for test production)

For Doses:
* Take 3-9 grams of fish oil per day
* Mix the Whey with the gatorade in a ratio of 2:1 for carbs to protein and add the creatine in. Drink this post workout
* Casein Drink before bed and the ZMA about 30-45 minutes before the casein (otherwise the calcuim in the protein will compete with the zinc & magnesium)

Otherwise make sure your diet and training are solid. They are 90% of your success.

Luis Cruz
12-02-2006, 05:32 PM
Damn, see i knew i'd have a problem being out of the loop for so long, i've never heard of half that shit. So the muscle milk actually is a protein drink that works? How's it taste? The training and dieting are where i excel, that's where i know what i'm doing for max results. I was just lost with these supplements because i hadn't messed with them for so long and i know technology changes so fast. Also where can i find on this stuff at the cheapest price?

Hypergit- No i'm only 29, but i think it'll work better now because back in the day my metabolism was extremely high. It burned the shit i ate at a crazy fast pace, i had a very hard time putting on weight. Before i got into working out i use to eat a double quarter pounder, 6 piece nuggets, a mcchicken sandwich, fries and a drink at mcd's at one shot on a regular basis and still looked trimmed. People use to shit when they seen me eat and look the way i did. So i had a hard time gaining but now it's slowed down some, it's still high but not nearly what it was so i'm expecting really good results.

Clint
12-02-2006, 05:41 PM
Damn, see i knew i'd have a problem being out of the loop for so long, i've never heard of half that shit. So the muscle milk actually is a protein drink that works? How's it taste? The training and dieting are where i excel, that's where i know what i'm doing for max results. I was just lost with these supplements because i hadn't messed with them for so long and i know technology changes so fast. Also where can i find on this stuff at the cheapest price?


Muscle Milk is probably the best tasting protein drink I have tried. For the best prices I like http://www.dpsnutrition.com and http://www.bulknutrition.com

Clint
12-02-2006, 05:48 PM
From DPS Nutrition:
http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_ud002.htm
http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_on403.htm
http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_dz014.htm
http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_no248.htm
http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_ct024.htm

I just grabbed flavors there are obviously more choices. Although I would go Vanilla with the whey if you are going to mix it in gatorade. For muscle milk I have tried Vanilla, Chocolater Milk, Bannana, and Pineapple Bannana and they were all good.

Hypergit
12-02-2006, 06:13 PM
Ah, sorry Luis yeah it says on your profile you're 29 I missed it. Well, you can still significantly boost your gains with the supplements I mentioned - they are highly anabolic (basically the best you can get without taking the risks inherrant in steroids, and won't fuck up your system)

Clint's basic suggestions closely match mine with a few minor differences (and some good dosing advice - always important. If you aren't taking a given supplement at the right dose, with the right shuttles or lack thereof, and at the optimal time you're probably best off not bothering with it). I'll quickly explain the differences:


The main supps I like are:
* Fish Oil Capsules - These are good for you in a ton of different ways
* Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey
* Dextrose or Powdered Gatorade
* I just use CNC brand pure creatine
* A Casein Based Protein or Milk Protein Isolate (Muscle Milk is good but a bit pricey)
* A ZMA supplement (most people are defient in zinc which is neccisary for test production)

Fish oil is good stuff for general health and joints. I also use ground flax seeds which imo are also important - both is best.

I don't like gatorade type drinks - there are way too many chemicals in them imo. Waxy maize starch is the best carb for a rapid insulin response, and is optimal for immediately post-workout (although it is much more expensive than dextrose, which will also do a good job). Dose is 50-100g post-workout, then 30-40g whey 20 minutes after. Sometimes I just have it all in one shake but it is better to have the maize first so its osmotic behaviour isn't altered by the whey.

Creatine Monohydrate is tried and tested - you may wish to try the EE version I am currently on and see which works best for you. I've certainly found the side effects to be less detrimental with EE.

Kimuras"R"Us
12-02-2006, 06:26 PM
I've been taking Gamma-O for the past two months... It's a natural testosterone booster that some fighters take, but that's not why I got into it. I was just reading about certain supplements looking for something new I could take to get into better shape (I needed some sort of athletic goal as my football career has come to an end) and stumbled across it. It tastes like plaster, unfortunately, but it honestly has made a difference in the two months since I've started taken it. I've noticed a real difference in recovery time as I can pump out a ton of reps, then take a short break, and be back to 100%.... Hope it helps, enjoy the weekend.

Clint
12-02-2006, 06:46 PM
I've been taking Gamma-O for the past two months... It's a natural testosterone booster that some fighters take, but that's not why I got into it. I was just reading about certain supplements looking for something new I could take to get into better shape (I needed some sort of athletic goal as my football career has come to an end) and stumbled across it. It tastes like plaster, unfortunately, but it honestly has made a difference in the two months since I've started taken it. I've noticed a real difference in recovery time as I can pump out a ton of reps, then take a short break, and be back to 100%.... Hope it helps, enjoy the weekend.

Meh, there are better products to spend $100 per bottle on in my opinion. The studies on it have been conflicting. Not to say to doesn't work or didn't work for you but there are better products available for the price, atleast to me.

Although if you are interested here is the main ingredient for much cheaper:
http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDetails.aspx?c=Herbs&pid=SNS-00684

Luis Cruz
12-02-2006, 07:12 PM
Thanks for the help fellas, i'll be getting stuff now but i'm not going back to the gym until Jan or Feb at the latest. Then it's full out for me until my body is back to how it use to look if not better.

Oh i wanted to ask, anyone know if that site netrition is any good? I might've spelled it wrong.

Clint
12-02-2006, 07:24 PM
I've ordered stuff off of them before. They have one hell of a selection and the prices are decent.

Luis Cruz
12-02-2006, 08:56 PM
I've ordered stuff off of them before. They have one hell of a selection and the prices are decent.


So what's better, that one or the one you gave me?

Clint
12-03-2006, 12:17 AM
Generally DPS nutrition has the better prices.

Luis Cruz
12-03-2006, 01:28 AM
Generally DPS nutrition has the better prices.

Cool i'll do some shopping soon then.

Hypergit
12-03-2006, 12:42 PM
Just remembered a supplement that gets rave reviews from many users:

Glutamine.

I didn't notice any benefit from it myself so I stopped using it, but a lot of people find it great for reducing recovery time (therefore speeding up gains too).

Probebly best to wait a couple of months until you get used to the workout regimen, then factor this one in and see if you notice a benefit.

AudieMurphy1
12-04-2006, 08:34 PM
MUSCLE MILK ROCKS! it has my full endorsement

Luis Cruz
12-04-2006, 08:51 PM
Is this the brand/company that everyones talking about, i didn't know if there was more than one?

http://www.cytosport.com/ProductGroup.aspx?ProductGroupID=1

Metalhead
12-04-2006, 09:42 PM
Seeing how we've been bombarded with the commercials, has anybody tried anything by xyience?

Clint
12-04-2006, 11:10 PM
Is this the brand/company that everyones talking about, i didn't know if there was more than one?

http://www.cytosport.com/ProductGroup.aspx?ProductGroupID=1

Yeah that's the company and if you want the oatmeal, make it yourself. Just throw a handful of plain old oatmeal in a bowl with a scoop of powder and mix iit with boiling water.


Seeing how we've been bombarded with the commercials, has anybody tried anything by xyience?

The general consensus is that they are waaay overpriced for what they do. So most people stay away.

AudieMurphy1
12-05-2006, 05:31 PM
Is this the brand/company that everyones talking about, i didn't know if there was more than one?

http://www.cytosport.com/ProductGroup.aspx?ProductGroupID=1


yep, thats the stuff i use, taste great too

AudieMurphy1
12-05-2006, 05:33 PM
Yeah that's the company and if you want the oatmeal, make it yourself. Just throw a handful of plain old oatmeal in a bowl with a scoop of powder and mix iit with boiling water.





hhhmmm.....never try'd the oatmeal, i'll have to do that, boiling the mix doesn't degrade its effects at all?

Clint
12-05-2006, 06:18 PM
hhhmmm.....never try'd the oatmeal, i'll have to do that, boiling the mix doesn't degrade its effects at all?

It shouldn't. I doubt the boiling water is hot enough to denature the protein and even if it is, it just gets denatured in the digestion process anyways.

AudieMurphy1
12-07-2006, 05:39 PM
any ideas on a good suppliment to take with my muscle milk to help me bulk up? i've try'd creatine but with minimal success, I have naturally lean muscle, makes it real hard for me to put on weight.

Clint
12-07-2006, 06:17 PM
I would say have a serving of Muscle Milk before bed and just eat like a mad man (clean though, you don't want fat gain). Check out the weight gain links in the FAQ, they should help alot.

In terms of supplements, I would just stick to the basics: Fish Oils, Creatine if you want, a PWO protein drink, Muscle Milk (or other similar protein), and a multivitamin/greens supplement.

AudieMurphy1
12-07-2006, 06:58 PM
thanks for the feedback clint

Metalhead
12-07-2006, 11:52 PM
I would say have a serving of Muscle Milk before bed and just eat like a mad man (clean though, you don't want fat gain). Check out the weight gain links in the FAQ, they should help alot.

In terms of supplements, I would just stick to the basics: Fish Oils, Creatine if you want, a PWO protein drink, Muscle Milk (or other similar protein), and a multivitamin/greens supplement.

I thought you weren't supposed to eat two hours before you go to bed?

Hypergit
12-08-2006, 12:17 AM
I thought you weren't supposed to eat two hours before you go to bed?

Overnight is when growth hormones are released and your body repairs, grows, and improves. It needs protein in order to do this, so it is best to take a slow protein mixture right before bed.

Secondarily, after a period of time elapses without consuming protein (4-5 hours approx) the body enters a catabolic state where it takes aminos from the muscles in order to feed the immune system and continue repair work. Obviously this is undesirable, so it is best to take the protein close to bed time so the body spends as little time as possible in this state before breakfast.

Btw, it is not worth interrupting sleep in order to take more protein. Although this will prevent the body going catabolic, the damage from interrupting the sleep cycle is far greater than the benefits.

git.

Clint
12-08-2006, 12:52 AM
Like Hypergit said, if you are looing to gain muscle, going 10 hours without food just isn't good. Casein takes around 6 hours to diest so that will keep you with amino acids throughout the night.

Fear My Hammer Fist
07-25-2009, 02:48 PM
Seems like these guys have you straightened out pretty good.

I've been a supplement junkie for the past 10 years or so and have seen things come and go.

My personal favorites based on hundreds of trials and errors are:

Time Released Protein (think Casein): Gaspari Myofusion or Syntrax Matrix

Quick Release Protein (think Isolate): Allmax Isoflex hands down best

Creatine: Any reputable brand's Creatine Monohydrate will do, just mix it with dextrose or something like Gatorade instead of buying the flavored stuff, it's WAY cheaper

Vitamins: they are not created equal, check the labels. I like Jamieson Mega Vim

Natural Test Booster: Syntrax Fuzu was best but not made anymore, Gaspari Novedex is quite good (test boosters should be cycled)

These are just the basics of course.

On the topic of taking protien before bed, JUST DO IT. Or, if you prefer, set your alarm clock to wake you up half way through the night and get your ass up and have a protein shake then go back to bed. Like previously mentioned, your body repairs (ie: rebuilds muscle) when at rest (ie: sleep), so make sure it has the nutrients it needs to do the job (ie: protein). I take a double serving of a time release protein (casein) right before bed. You don't need any carbs at this time, just protein.

The only other thing I'd mention is to try taking a Magnesium and Zinc pill an hour or so before bed.

MuscleGeeks
07-25-2009, 05:11 PM
I'm going to jump in here, and give you a real quick suggestion. I'll leave the science out of it.

The main 4 staples in all of my athletes regimen are:
1) protein - high quality blend that tastes good (no matter how high the quality, if it tastes like crap, they won't drink it)
2) Micronized Creatine - nothing fancy, plain older creatine monohydrate is still king (look for a brand that has Creapure in it)
3) Beta Alanine - Same thing, nothing fancy.
4) Fish Oil - This is the only one that I suggest spending a little extra on, and getting the highest quality available.

If you pay attention to pre, peri, and postworkout nutrition, you will be fine. Those three meals/shakes are the most important.

That stack right there shouldn't cost more than $80 tops.