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jay-c
05-30-2010, 07:06 PM
Will he finally get a little respect?

beardown98
05-30-2010, 07:41 PM
how could you not already respect him he's one of the top guys in one of the most stacked divisions in all of MMA
I've always had respect for him not only for being a very good fighter but also because he referenced red fox when he beat chuck.

I watched the fights last night at the bar an thought my GF who is a big Rashad fan and because of all the Rampage fans she was constanlty hearing shit talking towards rashad hell i got to arguing with a guy who called Rashad a bitch for wanting to wrestle which he though was boring. i mean really this guy fights for a living and he's a bitch i asked him what he did and he said he worked in mortgages so i said oh so your a bigger bitch than Rashad because you can't even wrestle he stopped talking to me after that comment.Also it was funny how there were a lot more Shad fans after the decision was in and suddenly there were more than two people cheering for him

dexter
05-30-2010, 07:45 PM
If Rashad beats Shogun it will be by wrestling a decision. He won't get respect for that, like he didn't for this fight.

notBJpenn
05-30-2010, 07:56 PM
If Rashad beats Shogun it will be by wrestling a decision. He won't get respect for that, like he didn't for this fight.

Now this is an ignorant post. He out struck Ramppage 61-27. He out wrestled him nailing 25% of his takedowns. He had him rocked twice. He won the Thiago fight by out wrestling him, he one this fight be doing everything better then Rampage.

This was a good fight it was back and forth for a little bit, you got to see a litlle bit of everything, striking, clinch work, ground game, the only thing it was missing was a highlight reel finish.

Oh and the title should be "When Rasahd finishes Shogun."

jay-c
05-30-2010, 08:29 PM
how could you not already respect him he's one of the top guys in one of the most stacked divisions in all of MMA
I've always had respect for him not only for being a very good fighter but also because he referenced red fox when he beat chuck...."

"...Also it was funny how there were a lot more Shad fans after the decision was in and suddenly there were more than two people cheering for him

I'm meaning from the observer who, no matter what Rashad does criticizes him.

Yes, we had the same experience last night. Prefight, boos, and f--k Rashad. Post-fight, you would have sworn it was Rashad's family reunion.

joeyP
05-30-2010, 08:47 PM
yes

m1ckeykn0x
05-30-2010, 09:25 PM
Ha....I hate Rashad no matter what, so hate me for it.

He will NOT finish Shogun. In fact, the only person worth mentioning that he "FINISHED" was Chuck and Forrest. Chuck who's old and got KO'd many times, and Forrest who is highly overrated and slow as fuck.

Shogun will fucking kill him, where Rampage could have but failed to take the opportunity.

rivethead
05-31-2010, 12:52 AM
If people don't respect him already, they won't respect him in the future.


Now this is an ignorant post. He out struck Ramppage 61-27. He out wrestled him nailing 25% of his takedowns. He had him rocked twice. He won the Thiago fight by out wrestling him, he one this fight be doing everything better then Rampage.

Shogun is a much, much better striker than rampage. Comparing the two would be MMA math. Evans is much more likely to look to grapple against Rua, as Shogun doesn't have great takedown defense.

rh

roaddawg
05-31-2010, 02:24 AM
If people don't respect him already, they won't respect him in the future.



Shogun is a much, much better striker than rampage. Comparing the two would be MMA math. Evans is much more likely to look to grapple against Rua, as Shogun doesn't have great takedown defense.

rh


Shogun doesn't need great TDD given his bjj. If Rashad goes for the takedown I got him getting sub'd if not reversed and pounded into submission.

rivethead
05-31-2010, 04:14 AM
I'm not saying he'd win. I'm saying it's his best chance to win.

rh

dmc_tim
05-31-2010, 04:21 AM
If Rashad beats Shogun it will be by wrestling a decision. He won't get respect for that, like he didn't for this fight.

now why is it that rashad doesnt get respect for it, but randy couture and GSP who have identical fighting styles and there some of MMAs most popular fighters. one could say couture and GSP are both extremely boring and deserve no respect. rashad would KO both of them ( im a rashad fan btw lol, but its true) i knew mostly everyone here would immediately jump on the shogun bandwagon. prepare to be dissapointed guys. rashad is turning out to be a younger, stronger,faster randy couture. he is becoming a master tactician and will have an awesome gameplan set up to defeat shogun. like i said before and many people have: its MMA anything can happen. dont underestimate evans.

Leucoethiops
05-31-2010, 04:49 AM
He out wrestled him nailing 25% of his takedowns.

Did you mean to make a 25% takedown success rate sound like a good thing?

pantomime horse
05-31-2010, 04:57 AM
Shogun is dangerous in just about every aspect of the game. If he gets taken down he'll get back up. If he's having trouble getting clear he'll look for a submission.

Look back over Shogun's career and you'll find that hurting him is near impossible. He can take a licking and Rashad isn't one to stand in the pocket. He knows better. Wherever this fight goes I believe Shogun has the advantage. When Rashad gets too close he's in very real danger of being stopped.

Oh, and I respect Rashad. He's very athletic and fairly well disciplined. Just because he beat a lackadaisical Rampage does not mean he'll 'finish' a fighter with the skills Rua has. Bottom line: He earned a shot. More power to him.

GSPvsSILVA2012
05-31-2010, 05:00 AM
Shogun is better technically than Rampage standing up and even has comparable power. Shogun doesn't have very good TDD though but seemed really good at getting off his back. It may have been more Lyoto's top control rather than Shoguns sweeps, who knows. I don't think Shogun will get the chance to finish Rashad until the 4th or 5th. Shogun will probably get some sweeps, sub attempts and knees in the clinch and really make Rashad worn out. It's nice to finally cheer for Rashad now that he's not fighting Rampage anymore

QOTSA420
05-31-2010, 05:17 AM
Shogun doesn't need great TDD given his bjj. If Rashad goes for the takedown I got him getting sub'd if not reversed and pounded into submission.

Miguel Torres has sick a ground game and standup but he has no TDD, so in turn he got mauled by a 135 lb midget. TDD is very important, so what Shogun is far superior in the striking and wrestling department, Rashad has the great equalizer which is wrestling. He will be able to outpoint Rua and control the pace of the fight.

I knew the fight last night would play out just like that but I hate fuckin "Suga" so much I picked against him. He could easily best Rua on the cards, but he will not finish him because he simply can't.

If he stays on the feet he gets KTFO'ed. Shogun will walk his punches down like he always does and will land a clean shot. And unlike Page and Silva Rua will not leave him off the hook.

If it goes to the ground he will be swept and put on his back. Rua swept Machida who is a much better grappler than Evans. Rashad barely threatens on top and that simply will not work on this level.

His only bet is to lean on him and get TDs near the end of the round, and if he does that I will gouge my eyes out. I swear to God I hate almost every Greg Jackson fighter. They have awesome game plans and are all incredible fighters that play to their strengths, but they turn in some of the dullest godamn fights. While I do appreciate the strategy, most the time I'm in a bar watching and my testosterone is so jacked up I want to throw a chair through the TV.

The8thPlague
05-31-2010, 05:31 AM
I've been on the Rashad bandwagon since the beginning.
Once I saw how good he was with his stand-up when he started off as just a wrestler, I was hooked.

People don't like him because he comes off cocky.
But if he beats Shogun(which He WONT) I do think that people will start to respect him a bit more.

jay-c
05-31-2010, 06:54 AM
Let me on record as thread starter, I am a big Rashad fan. My post history speaks for itself.

TheKidInside
05-31-2010, 07:40 AM
If Rashad finishes Shogun...he'll wake up and realize it was a DREAM...

notBJpenn
05-31-2010, 11:45 AM
Shogun is a much, much better striker than rampage. Comparing the two would be MMA math. Evans is much more likely to look to grapple against Rua, as Shogun doesn't have great takedown defense.

rh

I agree, but I feel Rashad has more ways to win this fight then Shogun does.


Shogun doesn't need great TDD given his bjj. If Rashad goes for the takedown I got him getting sub'd if not reversed and pounded into submission.

Rashad is no stranger to the ground, he is a black belt too (albeit not of the same caliber) but he is not a fish out of water.


Did you mean to make a 25% takedown success rate sound like a good thing?

It was good enough against another powerful wrestler to win the fight, so what is gonna do when he goes against someone with poor TDD?, see Thiago Silva.

rivethead
05-31-2010, 03:05 PM
now why is it that rashad doesnt get respect for it, but randy couture and GSP who have identical fighting styles and there some of MMAs most popular fighters. one could say couture and GSP are both extremely boring and deserve no respect.

Rashad doesn't get disrespected because of his skills. He gets disrespected because he talks shit and then doesn't deliver. He gets disrespected for disrespecting opponents in the cage. Neither of which Randy or GSP do.

I'd also say that both of them are better strikers than Rashad; Randy because his work from the clinch is so effective, and GSP because he has such fluid transitions from striking/feinting to grappling and back.


rashad would KO both of them ( im a rashad fan btw lol, but its true)

Please tim. Please. Do not fuck up the board with this nonsense. Rashad is not a KO artist. Catching Chuck with the exact same sequence he fucked up against Rampage does not make you a great striker. He's solid, and learning, but he's far from a KO artist.


i knew mostly everyone here would immediately jump on the shogun bandwagon. prepare to be dissapointed guys.

I'm not on a bandwagon. I was the one schooling idiots who couldn't tell the difference between recovering from surgery and being on steroids. But for someone to suddenly become Rashad's-bestest-friend and then bring up bandwagons: people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.


rashad is turning out to be a younger, stronger,faster randy couture. he is becoming a master tactician and will have an awesome gameplan set up to defeat shogun. like i said before and many people have: its MMA anything can happen. dont underestimate evans.
Sure, he can defeat Shogun. It's MMA. That doesn't make him the next Couture.

And you're overestimating Rashad's game plans. Those come from Greg Jackson as much as from Rashad.


I agree, but I feel Rashad has more ways to win this fight then Shogun does.

Wow. Really? I'm glad this thread is in noobjack already, because it's chock-full of crazy talk. No. Just...no. He does not.


Rashad is no stranger to the ground, he is a black belt too (albeit not of the same caliber) but he is not a fish out of water.

Rashad doesn't even have a great finishing top game, never mind a strong bottom game. As you stated, their black belts are not comparable.

Jackson's fighters look to win however possible, not to finish fights. Consequently, the majority of them look to simply maintain control once they've scored a takedown, and not to finish. Certainly, that's possible for Rashad, but it won't be easy. Shogun is more active from his back--and more dangerous--than anyone he's faced in his entire career.


It was good enough against another powerful wrestler to win the fight, so what is gonna do when he goes against someone with poor TDD?, see Thiago Silva.
Please, do not confuse rampage with a powerful wrestler. Page hasn't grappled since he left PRIDE.

And do not confuse Thiago with Silva. Not only does MMA math not work, Thiago is a poor-man's Shogun. But even if it did, the Thiago decision would serve to prove my point over yours: Evans would not look to stand with a superior striker, he's going to look to implement a takedownathon where he can't do anything to control or finish his opponent on the ground.

rh

dexter
05-31-2010, 05:52 PM
I personally don't like that he has the prefix 'suga' or 'sugar' - if you look at the boxers that have had the same, he doesn't deserve it, and doesn't live up to the expectations it brings- his hands are just ok...

Also, I don't think he'll be able to keep Shogun down - and I seriously hope Shogun sorts his cardio out, because I want him to win.

TheKidInside
05-31-2010, 06:17 PM
I personally don't like that he has the prefix 'suga' or 'sugar' - if you look at the boxers that have had the same, he doesn't deserve it, and doesn't live up to the expectations it brings- his hands are just ok...

Also, I don't think he'll be able to keep Shogun down - and I seriously hope Shogun sorts his cardio out, because I want him to win.

dude, no more of that cardio talk, that was when he came off TWO knee surgeries and back in Pride and in the Machida fight he had no problem fighting for a long time...

Watch the videos of him training with Wandy and co, he's a BEAST. absolute beast!

I also do NOT think Rashad deserves that nickname it's a disgrace to boxers methinks :(

Dr. MMA
05-31-2010, 06:26 PM
Shogun is a much, much better striker than rampage. Comparing the two would be MMA math. Evans is much more likely to look to grapple against Rua, as Shogun doesn't have great takedown defense.

I would even say he has one of the worst TDD in the LHW division. That dpesn't bode well against a guy with explosive takedowns.


Shogun doesn't need great TDD given his bjj. If Rashad goes for the takedown I got him getting sub'd if not reversed and pounded into submission.

I don't agree with your point that just because he has great BJJ means he can get away with not having good TDD. Rashad has shown a tendency to hit takedowns, works a little bit of GnP on the ground, then work a little GnP standing up in the guy's guard and then allowing his opponent to stand up. He then does this all over again.

We also got to remember that Shogun doesn't use his BJJ for subs as much as he does for sweeps. It sounds like I'm picking Rashad to win but I really am not. I am picking Shogun because I believe he has all the tools to finish Rashad but this is a far worse matchup for Shogun than Rampage given the way Rashad employs his wrestling. I personally think that Shogun should use his takedowns (which he is very successful with) and mix it in with his muay thai to throw Rashad off. Sure people will say but Rashad has great wrestling but it's very likely that Rashad won't expect Shogun to shoot in either.


I agree, but I feel Rashad has more ways to win this fight then Shogun does.

I had to edit my post and reply to this nonsense. Are you kidding me? In Shogun's 19 wins, he has finished 17 of them, whereas Rashad has finished 7 of his 15 wins. Your next point might be that finishing doesn't mean that he has more way to win. Well let's break it down. In the standup, Shogun wins in every department ranging from his kicks, his clinch strikes and even his ability to finish in the standup. Currently, I would say that their hands are on the same level as Shogun has drastically improved them. On the ground, Shogun has a great top game, and has pounded many guys out whereas Rashad is looking for the control more than GnP. On the bottom, Shogun is one of the best to transition and sweep. The guy on top usually is defending himself. We haven't seen Rashad much on the bottom, but when he has been, he doesn't look all too comfortable. Rashad's main strength is his wrestling. It's a great way for him to win (and he could control the pace using it) but let's not fool ourselves, that pretty much one of his only ways to win.

BBG
05-31-2010, 08:35 PM
After reading the whole thread, I found myself saying this ---v
So why bother posting when reposting works.





Originally Posted by dmc_tim View Post
now why is it that rashad doesnt get respect for it, but randy couture and GSP who have identical fighting styles and there some of MMAs most popular fighters. one could say couture and GSP are both extremely boring and deserve no respect.

Rashad doesn't get disrespected because of his skills. He gets disrespected because he talks shit and then doesn't deliver. He gets disrespected for disrespecting opponents in the cage. Neither of which Randy or GSP do.

I'd also say that both of them are better strikers than Rashad; Randy because his work from the clinch is so effective, and GSP because he has such fluid transitions from striking/feinting to grappling and back.



rashad would KO both of them ( im a rashad fan btw lol, but its true)


Please tim. Please. Do not fuck up the board with this nonsense. Rashad is not a KO artist. Catching Chuck with the exact same sequence he fucked up against Rampage does not make you a great striker. He's solid, and learning, but he's far from a KO artist.



i knew mostly everyone here would immediately jump on the shogun bandwagon. prepare to be dissapointed guys.


I'm not on a bandwagon. I was the one schooling idiots who couldn't tell the difference between recovering from surgery and being on steroids. But for someone to suddenly become Rashad's-bestest-friend and then bring up bandwagons: people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.



rashad is turning out to be a younger, stronger,faster randy couture. he is becoming a master tactician and will have an awesome gameplan set up to defeat shogun. like i said before and many people have: its MMA anything can happen. dont underestimate evans.


Sure, he can defeat Shogun. It's MMA. That doesn't make him the next Couture.

And you're overestimating Rashad's game plans. Those come from Greg Jackson as much as from Rashad.



Originally Posted by notBJpenn View Post
I agree, but I feel Rashad has more ways to win this fight then Shogun does.


Wow. Really? I'm glad this thread is in noobjack already, because it's chock-full of crazy talk. No. Just...no. He does not.



Rashad is no stranger to the ground, he is a black belt too (albeit not of the same caliber) but he is not a fish out of water.


Rashad doesn't even have a great finishing top game, never mind a strong bottom game. As you stated, their black belts are not comparable.

Jackson's fighters look to win however possible, not to finish fights. Consequently, the majority of them look to simply maintain control once they've scored a takedown, and not to finish. Certainly, that's possible for Rashad, but it won't be easy. Shogun is more active from his back--and more dangerous--than anyone he's faced in his entire career.



It was good enough against another powerful wrestler to win the fight, so what is gonna do when he goes against someone with poor TDD?, see Thiago Silva.


Please, do not confuse rampage with a powerful wrestler. Page hasn't grappled since he left PRIDE.

And do not confuse Thiago with Silva. Not only does MMA math not work, Thiago is a poor-man's Shogun. But even if it did, the Thiago decision would serve to prove my point over yours: Evans would not look to stand with a superior striker, he's going to look to implement a takedownathon where he can't do anything to control or finish his opponent on the ground.

rh

Great Post

notBJpenn
05-31-2010, 10:49 PM
Wow. Really? I'm glad this thread is in noobjack already, because it's chock-full of crazy talk. No. Just...no. He does not.

He can, K.O him, He can GnP him, he can LnP, so perhaps more ways was inaccurate, but he has at least as many.



Please, do not confuse rampage with a powerful wrestler. Page hasn't grappled since he left PRIDE.

Rampage is powerful, Rampage is a wrestler. Rampage is a powerful wrestler.


Evans would not look to stand with a superior striker, he's going to look to implement a takedownathon where he can't do anything to control or finish his opponent on the ground.rh

He pounded out Griffin, and his control is always improving.

I guess my point here is their is no reason that Rashad can't hang with Shogun, people shouldn't be writing either one of them off, it won't be a landslide victory for anyone IMO.

lwbrewer
05-31-2010, 11:17 PM
Not BJPenn :Griffins not a great striker so Evans beating him doesn't make him a great striker. Rashad is getting better, but after the Machida beating he'll rely more on his wrestling for safety sake. Using fights from more than 2 years ago really aren't revilent, like saying Shogun has cardio issues.

Melvin Manhoef
06-01-2010, 08:22 PM
Will he finally get a little respect?

Yes..but...kinda depends on how he wins as well.

I really hope Shogun destroys Evans! :cool2: