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FEDOR_OWNS_MMA
06-02-2010, 10:52 AM
If Fedor were to lose once..doesn't matter who(shit happens) lets say to werdum..

would all of you that consider him MMA's best continue to think so or would you go along looking for someone new?

Pretty much what Im asking is what will it take for you to not consider him to be #1?

(apologize if this was done before but search wont work for me on here):sadsong:

SimpleJack
06-02-2010, 12:21 PM
Fedor has 1 loss, albeit a stoppage due to a cut.

On subject, it would give Dana White and all the haters ammunition to throw at him to justify themselves. To the rest of us, it would just be the inevitibility of MMA.

GSPvsSILVA2012
06-02-2010, 12:36 PM
Fedor has 1 loss, albeit a stoppage due to a cut.

On subject, it would give Dana White and all the haters ammunition to throw at him to justify themselves. To the rest of us, it would just be the inevitibility of MMA.

Agreed, Dana would go pretty nuts. But I don't think there's anyway he can possibly put it to make me change my mind about Fedor and I've heard some of the most interesting and convincing outlooks on the whole subject from Dana White and Fedor hasn't even lost yet so I can't imagine. One loss shouldn't mean him losing his #1 status. It happens in MMA...GSP, Penn, Silva all have had flukes as well, even legit losses. Who would take his place? Lesnar is #2 with a loss and he only has had five fights where Fedor has nearly 8x more. I think a loss to Werdum would be considered a fluke where a loss to overeem\Lesnar would probably be widely accepted as a defeat so it just depends.

rivethead
06-02-2010, 02:59 PM
No, he'd still be the greatest of all time in my book.

Specifically if he loses to Werdum, who is a top 10 HW and the reigning Abu Dabi OW champ. It wouldn't represent as bad of a loss as say, the unranked Serra beating the absolute shit out of Georges, or the unranked Chonan overcoming 9 inches of reach to highlight reel Anderson. Or, for that matter, lesnar not knowing enough about MMA to put away a clearly dazed [and unranked] Frank Mir and getting tapped out as a result.

It's one night in MMA, where anything can happen. Penn just lost a shitty decision to Edgar, anyone who doesn't still have Penn as the #1 LW in the world doesn't know a goddamn thing about rankings.


Fedor has 1 loss, albeit a stoppage due to a cut.
I know you know this, but I'm pointing it out for noobjack, that it was a cut from an illegal elbow. It should have been a DQ in Fedor's favor.


rh

SimpleJack
06-02-2010, 03:50 PM
Good call. I guess I should have said that as well. I was illustrating how insignificant a "loss" is in the overall body of his work; especially a fluke one.

TheKidInside
06-02-2010, 03:52 PM
in ten years of dominance you get one loss....oh noooooo....he'd still be the most dominant heavyweight and mma fighter of all time!

The Return Of......
06-02-2010, 04:40 PM
Fedor + 1 legit lose = some fighter having a very very good (and possibly lucky) damn day.

Pasha K
06-02-2010, 08:15 PM
Ten years of destruction>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>One stupid loss

dexter
06-02-2010, 08:27 PM
I agree with you all. But I am also pretty sure there would be a lot of people running around saying Fedor sucks/overhyped etc.

mma #1 fan
06-02-2010, 09:42 PM
fedor was the best . (WAS )is not now you don't have to lose to fall off the hill . you can't fight once a year and still be the best in the world . (he may have more fan's but fuck its mma after he gets beat %85 of them will jump ship. )

CRisCO
06-02-2010, 11:06 PM
1 loss won't change what hes done but it will change what he is... The only thing keeping Fedor as the top heavyweight in the world is the fact that he is basically unbeaten and has fought DECENT competition in the last 2 years. A dominating loss to Werdum would have to knock him below the winner of Carwin vs Lesnar in the rankings IMO because he will still continue to refuse to fight the best because of M-1 and their insanity.

Fedor's place in history is secured no matter what but his current 1st place rank can still be taken if he won't defend it.

pdx_boxer503
06-03-2010, 12:58 AM
Fedor + 1L = Overhype to whoever beats him. And a stream of endless shit talking from Dana.

TheKidInside
06-03-2010, 02:35 AM
yeah I think I will have to turn my Dana White filter "on"...problem is I do an MMA podcast so I don't know how I'll manage :P

rivethead
06-03-2010, 02:43 AM
1 loss won't change what hes done but it will change what he is... The only thing keeping Fedor as the top heavyweight in the world is the fact that he is basically unbeaten and has fought DECENT competition in the last 2 years. A dominating loss to Werdum would have to knock him below the winner of Carwin vs Lesnar in the rankings IMO because he will still continue to refuse to fight the best because of M-1 and their insanity.

Fedor's place in history is secured no matter what but his current 1st place rank can still be taken if he won't defend it.

Lets look at this for a minute. You're saying Fedor has beaten "decent" competition in the last two years, based on what, exactly?

Rankings? Certainly not. Tim was, at worst, ranked top 7, and was ranked as high as 5 going into the fight. Andrei was, at worst, ranked top 5, and was ranked as high as top 3 going into it. Rogers was ranked top 15 at worst and was ranked top 10 at best. So that's just decent?

Or are you looking at what the fighters did after Fedor destroyed them? After all, Tim lost horrifically to Mercer and then has contented himself kicking cans around the yard; Andrei got KTFO'd by Rogers and then lost a decision to Bigfoot [despite the return of the hair-sweater!] and Rogers just got ragdolled by AO.

Does that discount the wins Fedor has over them?

Because if it does, lets look at lesnar's record: First, he lost to an unranked Mir in fight full of rookie dumbass mistakes. No biggie, it's his first real MMA fight. Then he takes the unranked Herring to a decision after half-blinding him with the first punch. Inexplicably, this leads to a title shot, against the 45 year-old-hadn't-fought-in-15-months-and-gave-up-50lbs cageside Randy Couture. Now Randy was one of the standing Champions in the UFC at the time, so he was ranked as high as top 3 in the sites that hadn't dropped him from the rankings entirely due to inactivity. And obviously, brock TKOd him. Brock then went on to beat up on Mir, who jumped from unranked to top 5 based on a surprise win over Big Nog.

But let's look at what his opponents then did with the same critical eye turned on Fedor's opponents by the UFC-only crowd: Herring hasn't fought since then, so he's the best of the bunch and hasn't dropped anything. Randy got beat by the same fading Nog that Mir knocked out [and then who Cain knocked out] and left the division entirely. Mir got absolutely owned by the unranked Carwin. If people are talking about stock dropping for Tim and Andrei without having lesnar's opponents drop in stock as well, they're either blinded by UFC-only love or they're comfortable being hypocrites.

Carwin? I really, really like Carwin, but in the last two years, he's pounded out a couple cans, a top 20 in Gonzaga, and a very softly ranked Mir. He's got one ranked win under his belt.

So no, I'm not buying Fedor dropping out of the top spot with a loss to Werdum, who is a ranked opponent.

I can understand why people would want to try to make a case for it, but it's a very nearsighted perspective, or a look through UFC-issued rose-colored glasses.

rh

SimpleJack
06-03-2010, 05:43 AM
And that's the bottom line....cuz Rivethead said so.

Couldn't agree more.

Tyreas
06-03-2010, 07:33 AM
I think with every loss its more about how you lost and what you did in your next fight.

Given Fedor's age his next loss will be attributed to diminishing skill/speed rather then just being beaten. I would rather he win his next 4-6 fights and retire with the one controversial lost to avoid the excuses. Should he suffer defeat, he is clearly still the best heavyweight of all time but will face questions like every other legend regarding their era.

Its a shame Fedor is not 26 right now. I think the ultra athletic HW competition is finally coming in numbers.

SWIFTboy
06-03-2010, 04:23 PM
Or are you looking at what the fighters did after Fedor destroyed them? After all, Tim lost horrifically to Mercer and then has contented himself kicking cans around the yard; Andrei got KTFO'd by Rogers and then lost a decision to Bigfoot [despite the return of the hair-sweater!] and Rogers just got ragdolled by AO.


Generally speaking, do you think what fighters do after should count or not?To be honest, I'm never sure what to think.

For example, Werdum's loss to JDS doesn't seem so bad in retrospect, based on what JDS has accomplished since. So in that case what JDS did after is taken into account, in my eyes.

At the same time, I'll always consider a win over BJ at WW a very high quality win, whether or not he ever fights at that weight again, and despite having a less-than-steller overall record at that weight.

Using those two cases as examples of a larger pattern, I realize I'm looking at it on a case-by-case basis, which has the potential to invite bias.