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Metalhead
12-07-2006, 07:59 PM
I know this could go in the suppliments thread but it's a bit different. What is the overall consensus, if there is one, on what protein powder is the best? There's so many bloody choices that I dont' know which are good and which are useless. I'm talking like straight protein powder. I've read the higher the price the better, but that could just be a higher price due to brand name.

Help.

Clint
12-07-2006, 08:13 PM
Nah higher price doesn't neccisarily mean better but the cheapest stuff isn't a good choice either.

For post workout, you want Whey Protein and a fast acting carb. A good choice is Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey mixed with Dextrose or gatorade or Waxy Maize Starch for 2:1 carbs to Protein. If you just want to buy something prepared Biotest Surge is good and I've heard good things about Accelerade. Lastly you could have a custom mix made with these proportions at www.trueprotein.com (just click build custom mix)

For Meal replacement/Before Bed/ Anytime not periworkout you want a Casein/Whey blend. Muscle Milk is a good choice here but high calorie (although they have MM lite now too). Also you can buy Milk Protein Isolate from True Protein or possibly Optimum Nutrition (I'm not sure but I think they carry it).

Hypergit
12-07-2006, 09:50 PM
the cheapest stuff isn't a good choice either.

I disagree with this to an extent. If you find a trustworthy source of bulk whey powder it is less than half the cost of branded products, and has an identical or close amino acid profile (if the profile is identical, then the powder was supplied from the same dairy).

Unflavoured is also healthier due to the absence of sweeteners and flavourings (you can add these yourself such as sucralose/fructose, fruit juice, cocoa, but imo it tastes just fine anyway)

git.

Beatts35
12-07-2006, 09:54 PM
i've liked the results from taking MUSCLEMILK, i mix it with soy milk and put on around 10lbs of solid muscle

AudieMurphy1
12-07-2006, 10:09 PM
i've liked the results from taking MUSCLEMILK, i mix it with soy milk and put on around 10lbs of solid muscle


is that all you take?

Clint
12-07-2006, 11:43 PM
I disagree with this to an extent. If you find a trustworthy source of bulk whey powder it is less than half the cost of branded products, and has an identical or close amino acid profile (if the profile is identical, then the powder was supplied from the same dairy).

Unflavoured is also healthier due to the absence of sweeteners and flavourings (you can add these yourself such as sucralose/fructose, fruit juice, cocoa, but imo it tastes just fine anyway)

git.

True, I meant the cheapest stuff not in bulk. Like the weider protein powder (It's damn near all soy) and the Walmart shit. Although walmarts creatine isn't too bad, it's actually made by the same people that manufacture Muscle Tech but thats a different topic entirely



i've liked the results from taking MUSCLEMILK, i mix it with soy milk and put on around 10lbs of solid muscle

Just so that you know eating alot of soy can be bad. It has phytoestrogens in it which your body converts to estrogen. Many people are against any soy but in all honesty a bit of soy milk won't kill you. Just avoid intaking too much soy on a regular basic (like supplementing with it or something)

Alwaysbelieve1
12-18-2006, 07:51 PM
Whey protein, which is in most protein supplements, is derived from milk. During the pasteurization process the milk is filtered and a foamy substance is left over. That foamy substance is whey. For years farmers and scientists simply used to throw the whey away or feed it to the animals until they found that it is a superior form of protein.

In fact whey protein is the highest BV(biological value) of any protein.

Remember one thing: What does quality protein mean and how is it measured? Protein quality is measured by the number of essential or indispensable amino acids provided and by the digestibility of the protein. Protein quality is measured by the Biological Value(BV). BV is a value that measures how well the body can absorb and utilize a protein. The higher the Biological Value of the protein you use, the more nitrogen your body can absorb, use, and retain. As a result, proteins with the highest BV promote the most lean muscle gains. Whey protein has the highest BV value, rating at 104. Egg protein is only second to whey rating as a 100 with milk proteins being a close third rating as 91. Beef rates as an 80 with soy proteins(tofu included) a distant 74. Bean proteins, due to the fact that are plant-based proteins, only rate a 49.

I am only trying to show you the BEST way. There are other ways, but there is only one BEST way

I take about 5 protein shakes a day as well as eating 1-2 food meals and have done so for about 5-6 years. I eat 1-2 food meals and then have about 4-5 shakes a day. I almost always eat 6 meals a day. 5 used to be my average, but I try to keep it to 6. I have a before bedtime MM shake.

I use Pure Advantage and Cytosport products. Other brands are good such as Optimum Nutrition, Beverly Nutrition, BSN, and others.

Taking protein within 30 minutes after working out is best to return your body from catabolic(muscle breakdown) to anabolic(muscle recovery).

I will take the following info directly from my Smart Nutrition Book which is part of the A.B.1 Training Systems Program. :)

1. Protein Sources

i. The most important choice here is quality.
ii. Taste should not be a factor. Think about what it is doing to your body.
iii. Muscle Milk(RTDs), Nectar, Optimum Nutrition, and Pure Advantage are all great whey protein brands.
iv. GNC’s Protein 95 is a great (Supro Soy) soy protein source. Spiru-Tein is also a good brand choice for soy as well.
v. The other option is a protein bar. Balance, Zone, Nitrotech or Detour brands are some of the best bars to choose.

Metalhead
12-19-2006, 01:06 AM
What brands of protein should you stay away from?

Clint
12-19-2006, 01:36 AM
What brands of protein should you stay away from?

As a male you should stay away form any soy based proteins. Otherwise I would personally stay away from Muscletech and Xyience just because they are typically way overpriced for what they are.


Alwaysbelieve1, Welcome aboard. Sounds like you really know you stuff. It's always nice to have an additional opinion around. Though, I have 2 questions:

What is your opinion on store bought Protein Bars? I find them packed full of sugars and such.

How do you feel with 4 shakes and 2 meals in a day? I don't think I could handle that many shales in place of meals.

Hypergit
12-19-2006, 02:09 AM
I am only trying to show you the BEST way. There are other ways, but there is only one BEST way

Welcome, and nice detailed post - I look forward to reading more from you.

However, I strongly disagree with this statement and it'd be good if you could elaborate for me.

I've always been led to believe (through reading and experience) that there is no 'best way' as everone's body is different. Is is possible that you have discovered the best way for you rather than the best way for everyone?

git.

AudieMurphy1
12-19-2006, 02:14 AM
Welcome, and nice detailed post - I look forward to reading more from you.

However, I strongly disagree with this statement and it'd be good if you could elaborate for me.

I've always been led to believe (through reading and experience) that there is no 'best way' as everone's body is different. Is is possible that you have discovered the best way for you rather than the best way for everyone?

git.


nice catch...i have to agree, most eating regiments wont work for me because of my high metabolism, i've learned to double up

Hypergit
12-19-2006, 02:55 AM
most eating regiments wont work for me because of my high metabolism, i've learned to double up

Yeah there's that, and there's also a few other things that I would contest being even good, let alone 'best for all', in that plan. One example is that 1-2 meals a day, irrespective of the potential nutrition and digestion issues, would just make me fucking depressed (which in several round about ways would hinder my workout regimen and general health).

I will give it this: it is an easy way. Easy ways though, imo and also by definition, bear easy results.

With all that said, it must have worked for AB1 so I have no problem with it being touted here as a valid plan, just not as 'the best' plan.

git.

Alwaysbelieve1
12-19-2006, 05:56 AM
Welcome, and nice detailed post - I look forward to reading more from you.

However, I strongly disagree with this statement and it'd be good if you could elaborate for me.

I've always been led to believe (through reading and experience) that there is no 'best way' as everone's body is different. Is is possible that you have discovered the best way for you rather than the best way for everyone?

git.

Thank you very much for the warm welcomes. :)

"everone's body is different"- precisely my point. For me there is a best way as there is also one for you. Once you find it- stick with it until a better one for you comes around. :)

This is usually how I eat most of the time only changing from time to time:

Meal 1:
- Option A- Protein shake with peanut butter, coconut oil, flax see oil, apple cider vinegar, and psyllium seed husk fiber added to it.
- You can put ½ cup of oats into the shake and blend it well so they are virtually undetectable.
- Option B - a 3-5 eggs with (1/3 – ½ cup of Old Fashion oats or 2 slices of whole wheat berry toast).

Meal 2: Protein Shake (w/o all the added fun stuff) or Bar (with about 30g of protein in it)

Meal 3: Good Lunch-
Limit any PB & J!!!(this is because of sugars)
NO DELI/LUNCH MEATS- they contain high sodium and fat regardless if it claims to be lean the fillers it contains have fat)
balanced with protein first(so you don’t lose muscle),
good carbs(low- intermediate glycemic index- chart in another thread),
and good fats(olive oil, flax oil, peanuts, etc. no trans).

Meal 4: Protein Shake (w/o all the added fun stuff) or Bar (with about 30g of protein in it)

Meal 5: Good Dinner- (same as lunch breakdown)

Optional Meal 6: Protein Shake Only (before bedtime)
-Mix some Psyllium Seed Husk Fiber into this shake.


When losing weight stay away from juices, soda, high sugary fruits (good for you in vitamins, but because of the sugar bad when you are dieting to lose weight), any other kind of sugary treat, and keep track of all sodium intake.
Eat a lot of good fat. The more good fat you eat the less you will have on your body- as long as you keep your carbohydrates where you should- at all times.

Make sure that you drink half your body weight in ounces of water every single day! This is very important.

Hypergit
12-20-2006, 02:30 AM
Thank you very much for the warm welcomes. :)

You're welcome :) I looked at your website and it seems your advice is valuable. I sure appreciate you dishing it out for free here with no benefit to yourself.


"everone's body is different"- precisely my point.

Ok, it seemed like you meant the opposite when you said, "I am only trying to show you the BEST way. There are other ways, but there is only one BEST way." Glad you agree with me.


"Meal 1:
- Option A- Protein shake with peanut butter, coconut oil, flax see oil, apple cider vinegar, and psyllium seed husk fiber added to it.
- You can put ½ cup of oats into the shake and blend it well so they are virtually undetectable.
- Option B - a 3-5 eggs with (1/3 – ½ cup of Old Fashion oats or 2 slices of whole wheat berry toast).

Meal 2: Protein Shake (w/o all the added fun stuff) or Bar (with about 30g of protein in it)

Meal 3: Good Lunch-
Limit any PB & J!!!(this is because of sugars)
NO DELI/LUNCH MEATS- they contain high sodium and fat regardless if it claims to be lean the fillers it contains have fat)
balanced with protein first(so you don’t lose muscle),
good carbs(low- intermediate glycemic index- chart in another thread),
and good fats(olive oil, flax oil, peanuts, etc. no trans).

Meal 4: Protein Shake (w/o all the added fun stuff) or Bar (with about 30g of protein in it)

Meal 5: Good Dinner- (same as lunch breakdown)

Optional Meal 6: Protein Shake Only (before bedtime)
-Mix some Psyllium Seed Husk Fiber into this shake.

You said previously that you take 1-2 meals + 4-5 shakes. You are now saying 2-3 meals + 3-4 shakes (which imo is far more reasonable). Perhaps you should edit one of your posts for continuity/clarification?

Personally, if time permits I will have only my morning shake, bed time shake, and if required a PWO shake - the rest will be real food because I agree with your recipe thread assertion that one should "Try to eat as close to nature as possible. If you do that you will see amazing results and feel even better."

One more thing is that I will always have whey in my breakfast whether in a shake or to supplement a meal (you have it as 'optional') - it is the fastest way to get some protein into your system and snap out of the catabolic state.

Anyways, thanks for clearing up the 'best way' misunderstanding.

git.

Alwaysbelieve1
12-20-2006, 07:10 AM
You're welcome :) I looked at your website and it seems your advice is valuable. I sure appreciate you dishing it out for free here with no benefit to yourself.



Ok, it seemed like you meant the opposite when you said, "I am only trying to show you the BEST way. There are other ways, but there is only one BEST way." Glad you agree with me.



You said previously that you take 1-2 meals + 4-5 shakes. You are now saying 2-3 meals + 3-4 shakes (which imo is far more reasonable). Perhaps you should edit one of your posts for continuity/clarification?

Personally, if time permits I will have only my morning shake, bed time shake, and if required a PWO shake - the rest will be real food because I agree with your recipe thread assertion that one should "Try to eat as close to nature as possible. If you do that you will see amazing results and feel even better."

One more thing is that I will always have whey in my breakfast whether in a shake or to supplement a meal (you have it as 'optional') - it is the fastest way to get some protein into your system and snap out of the catabolic state.

Anyways, thanks for clearing up the 'best way' misunderstanding.

git.

Regarding when and how many shakes to take can be as variable as your schedule is.
For example- today I had 2 food meals and 4 shakes. This is very typical for me since when I train my clients I go back to back for 6 hours and cannot sit down and eat a food meal. Shakes come in very, very handy for my schedule. :)

Clint
12-20-2006, 05:26 PM
Regarding when and how many shakes to take can be as variable as your schedule is.
For example- today I had 2 food meals and 4 shakes. This is very typical for me since when I train my clients I go back to back for 6 hours and cannot sit down and eat a food meal. Shakes come in very, very handy for my schedule. :)

With having to have shakes for that many meals per day, you might want to throw in some fiber and either some veggies (spinach in a shake isnt bad at all) or a greens supplement like greens+ (if you can't blend anything) to help inmprove the macro/micro nutritient profile of the shakes and make it a bit easier on your digestive system.

Alwaysbelieve1
12-20-2006, 07:02 PM
With having to have shakes for that many meals per day, you might want to throw in some fiber and either some veggies (spinach in a shake isnt bad at all) or a greens supplement like greens+ (if you can't blend anything) to help inmprove the macro/micro nutritient profile of the shakes and make it a bit easier on your digestive system.

Indeed I do take fiber. I take psyllium seed husk in my morning shake as well as 1-2 inulin fiber tablets 3x per day. I have been doing this for years.

I am well educated on diet, nutrition and supplements not only because of my professional fitness trainer cert., but also due to my 3 years with GNC as an area supervisor.

I always try to provide the best for my body disregarding cost since one really can't put a price tag on one's health. :)

BIG FLO
01-02-2007, 04:28 AM
I have heard that milk acts to prevent the protein from helping to heal your muscles after a workout, therefore to stay away from drinking milk right after you have worked out and then consumed protein. Is this true? It seems that based on what you are all saying, milk is good to mix with protein after a workout...

Clint
01-02-2007, 04:34 AM
I have heard that milk acts to prevent the protein from helping to heal your muscles after a workout, therefore to stay away from drinking milk right after you have worked out and then consumed protein. Is this true? It seems that based on what you are all saying, milk is good to mix with protein after a workout...

Milk is okay to mix with protein PWO but water would be better in this case since Milk is largely casein which has a slower digestion rate and thereby will somewhat slow down the absoption of the whey.

BIG FLO
01-02-2007, 04:42 AM
Thanks for the info, Clint.

Alwaysbelieve1
01-02-2007, 07:24 AM
It does not slow the absorption of whey as whey absorbs at its own rate, but instead proceeds to be digested at a rate of about 6-8 hours as casein is indeed the slowest digesting protein.

It is okay to drink milk as you can get the best of both worlds- slow and fast absorbing protein. :)

Metalhead
01-15-2007, 06:42 PM
When would you use a meal replacement and when would you use a protein shake? For a guy who's not really working out at the moment, would a proten shake be useless? Can you have protein shakes instead of meal replacements? So confused...

Alwaysbelieve1
01-15-2007, 06:51 PM
When would you use a meal replacement and when would you use a protein shake? For a guy who's not really working out at the moment, would a proten shake be useless? Can you have protein shakes instead of meal replacements? So confused...

You can use as "meal replacement" protein shake any time you want. It is a balance in protein, carbs, fats and packed with a lot of vitamins to give you what you are missing in a standard meal- thus the name. When you think of a meal replacement product think of Muscle Milk, Eas Myoplex, MetRX, and the list goes on and on into hundreds of brands and types.

When you think of a strictly protein powder shake(non-meal replacement) think of Optimum Nutrition's 100% Whey Powder, Cytosport's Evopro, GNC's 100% Whey, and the list goes on as well.

A meal replacement is a protein shake, however not all protein shakes are meal replacements. Make sense? :) Taking shakes is NEVER "useless". Use them if you need to or want to- don't if you don't.

I hope that helps.

Clint
01-15-2007, 07:03 PM
When would you use a meal replacement and when would you use a protein shake? For a guy who's not really working out at the moment, would a proten shake be useless? Can you have protein shakes instead of meal replacements? So confused...

Look at it this way, there are 2 kinds of protein shakes:
* Meal Replacement:
- This generally has Casein (and possibly Whey as well), some good fats, and some lower GI carbs.
- A good example would be muscle milk or a combination of some casein (or milk protein isolate) with some oats and maybe some fish oils and greens+.
- You would take one of these in place of a meal, for example when time constraints prevent you from eating a meal but you still need food (since you should be eating every 3 hours). Also this is a good choice before bed, although most people try to choose one with fewer carbs before bed.

* Peri-workout Shakes:
- This is generally 100% Whey Protein and some High GI carbs (usually Dextrose and Maltodextrin). This is also a good place for your creatine.
- A good example of this would be Biotest Surge or a 2:1 combination of Dextrose to Whey Protein
- You would take this around your workout period. Some people say take it post workout, some say pre workout, other say take half before and half after. The half and half method is probably the best choice but any will work.

Metalhead
01-16-2007, 01:03 AM
So theyr'e basically interchangable? Like, after a workout a protein shake is better, but a meal replacement would be ok?

I'm looking to get into the 5-6 meals a day thing, so I'm trying to figure out what to have when I'm not eating "food".

Clint
01-16-2007, 01:15 AM
So theyr'e basically interchangable? Like, after a workout a protein shake is better, but a meal replacement would be ok?

I'm looking to get into the 5-6 meals a day thing, so I'm trying to figure out what to have when I'm not eating "food".

After a workout you should have the whey and dextrose (gatorade works well) and any other time have a meal replacement. If you only have meal replacement shakes they would work but not as well.

Alwaysbelieve1
01-16-2007, 05:35 AM
After a workout you should have the whey and dextrose (gatorade works well) and any other time have a meal replacement. If you only have meal replacement shakes they would work but not as well.

Unless you're bodybuilding I wouldn't go with the gatorade(carb) mix AFTER a workout due to the metabolism spike post exercise. This will only diminish the amount of calories as well as fat you burn throughout the day.

If you are simply trying to become or stay lean a 100% whey OR low carb meal replacement(such as muscle milk) would definitely prove optimal post workouts.

It all depends on your goals in order to consider a particular product as well as mixture of products/ingredients to achieve your aspirations.

Clint
01-16-2007, 04:27 PM
Unless you're bodybuilding I wouldn't go with the gatorade(carb) mix AFTER a workout due to the metabolism spike post exercise. This will only diminish the amount of calories as well as fat you burn throughout the day.

If you are simply trying to become or stay lean a 100% whey OR low carb meal replacement(such as muscle milk) would definitely prove optimal post workouts.

It all depends on your goals in order to consider a particular product as well as mixture of products/ingredients to achieve your aspirations.

According to all fo the studies I've read you need to insulin spike PWO with your whey in order to help shuttle the amino acids to your muscle/replenish your glycogen supplies. You simply need to account for these carbs in your planned caloric intake for the day.

Here are my sources:
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/puzzle_1.htm
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/puzzle_2.htm

Metalhead
01-16-2007, 06:56 PM
My goals/lifestyle is as follows:

I try to be an active person, a natural athlete in that I can play any sport and do it well, but not really in the greatest all around shape. I'm not fat or anything. I go for long ass jogs on the weekends as I love doing that. This month I'm not doing it, but I've taken up Ju Jitsu 2-3x a week. I want dearly to get back to lifting weights, as I said in another thread I've been basically injured and unable to lift since early October. I hope to play box lacrosse come april thru august as a goalie so I need great flexibility. I have been working on flexibility since I can't do much else. I am getting my own place next month so I want to start eating properly (at a cheap price).

My goal, once I'm able to again, is to become stronger. I've always struggled at pushups, can't do a true pull up. I don't necessarly want to be big and bulky, but I want to be strong and ripped which I never have been. LIke I said, when I was working out I did see results and could actually do 50 push ups non stop. Now I can barely do ten. I'd like to have a "beach body" by the summer which I feel is realistic if my injuries let me.

Until healed up, I'm thinking meal replacements make more sense than protein powders. ANd once I do start lifting again, both may be good. Is that a good idea?

Alwaysbelieve1
01-16-2007, 06:58 PM
According to all fo the studies I've read you need to insulin spike PWO with your whey in order to help shuttle the amino acids to your muscle/replenish your glycogen supplies. You simply need to account for these carbs in your planned caloric intake for the day.

Here are my sources:
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/puzzle_1.htm
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/puzzle_2.htm

I absolutely agree with you and have known about this for many years. Essentially what he was saying is that your body becomes catabolic during and post exercise and to return it to an anabolic(muscle buiding) state one needs to take in a certain amount/type of carbs, protein, and other phytonutrients. This is where my agreement with you seems to end.

I like to think logically. Logically speaking I see a protein shake drink that is low carb and it is curious to me why these companies spend a lot of money on them to produce a superior product without the need of carbs for added absorption. They develop them because they work- because they absorb exclusively on their own.

In fact whey protein is very soluble in acid and since the stomach has a whole lot of it- it digests and absorbs very quickly. In fact the amino acids in why digest and absorb at a rate of approximately 1-1.5 hours at most. This is the fastest of any protein. That is why whey is regarded as the best muscle building protein. Ok- well you say- But you need the carbs to aid the absorption. Not true. If your body & amino receptors need those aminos(and they will) then they will absorb them. If they don't need them then they will not. Carbs will not assist this process any faster. The only thing carbs will do is what you already mentioned- spike insulin(which is the most anabolic hormone in the human body) in order to return the body to an anabolic state- and fast.

That is plainly put into Layman's terms for all to completely comprehend. If anyone has any further questions please feel free to let us know. :)

Metalhead
01-19-2007, 08:38 PM
This might be tough to answer but what's a good price for a large container of protein powder? I've seen anywhere from $25-50+. I read somewhere that usually the more expensive it is the better. Any truth to that?

Clint
01-19-2007, 08:45 PM
This might be tough to answer but what's a good price for a large container of protein powder? I've seen anywhere from $25-50+. I read somewhere that usually the more expensive it is the better. Any truth to that?

It depends on what kind you are getting and more expensive isnt always better.

Here is what I like
Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey - This is a good pure protein supplement:
http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_on501.htm

Muscle Milk - This is a great Meal Replacement shake (just watch your calories with it they can add up quickly)
http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_ct024.htm

DPS generally has one of the lowest prices around, for refence. Also there are other flavors on that site I just linked the ones I like.

Metalhead
01-19-2007, 09:09 PM
Do you order everything off the internet or do you buy from a store?

Clint
01-19-2007, 09:39 PM
Do you order everything off the internet or do you buy from a store?
I order everything off of the Internet. It's cheaper and easier than aiting until it goes on sale at GNC.

Alwaysbelieve1
01-20-2007, 08:19 AM
It depends on what kind you are getting and more expensive isnt always better.

Here is what I like
Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey - This is a good pure protein supplement:
http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_on501.htm

Muscle Milk - This is a great Meal Replacement shake (just watch your calories with it they can add up quickly)
http://www.dpsnutrition.net/get_item_ct024.htm

DPS generally has one of the lowest prices around, for refence. Also there are other flavors on that site I just linked the ones I like.

Very nice find! I usually go with www.fitrx.com, but DPS looks like it's just a tad but cheaper for MM. :)