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singinkangaroooo
08-29-2010, 03:55 PM
Ok.. so now that we see wrestling is becoming the key to victory in a lot of cases but how people utilize it makes it boring or exciting.. we have the 2 top contenders in WW and LW considered to be really boring fighters who just Lay N' Pray.. they both almost work in the exact same way except Maynards stand up is significantly better.. God forbid they put both LW and WW belts on the same night... which fighter do you like to see the least?

on a side not since i am a wrestler and i cant really stand just negative attention on the sport since there are fighters who use(d) wrestling really well to make fights more exciting ex) Chuck, Randy, Hendo just to name a few

but i hope this does not become a trend.. i guess well have to rely on our champions to not let these 1 dimensional fighters take the belt.. GSP does have mad wrestling skills but he also uses them to pass and uses his BJJ to try and submit ppl.. combined with good standup (that we havent seen in forever) wrestling is something that should be combined with things if you want to be entertaining for the fans and not just go out there to win.. which i guess there is nothing wrong with that if that is the fighters goal... but to be great you have to use the wrestling to make your ground game exciting not boring...

rick56
08-30-2010, 04:47 AM
waaahhhh waaahhhh, dont watch them then. plus this is mixed martial arts. not just one art form. until people learn and incorporate wrestling in there training seriously wrestling will rein supreme

CtGreat
08-30-2010, 05:15 AM
waaahhhh waaahhhh, dont watch them then. plus this is mixed martial arts. not just one art form. until people learn and incorporate wrestling in there training seriously wrestling will rein supreme

yep, pretty much exactly how i feel about this topic in general, but then again im a wrestler so personally appreciate beautiful technique.

willpunisher
08-30-2010, 03:40 PM
yep, pretty much exactly how i feel about this topic in general, but then again im a wrestler so personally appreciate beautiful technique.

beautiful? what's beautiful about having a guy bump n grind you for 15mins?
beautiful is watching them trying to fight standing and looking like shit doing it.

rick56
08-30-2010, 04:56 PM
beautiful? what's beautiful about having a guy bump n grind you for 15mins?
beautiful is watching them trying to fight standing and looking like shit doing it.

lmao! any two joe's can walk into a cage an stand up, most likely looking like shit. i want to see just any joe walk in and take somebody down and keep them down. with no wrestling background your probably not going to be able too. Yeah when they dont try to finish i guess to you its boring but why doesnt the guy on bottom just get up....oh probably cause hes being dominated by the wrestler..

rivethead
08-30-2010, 06:12 PM
The premise of the poll is fighter bashing, be respectful to fighters in your reply.

It's really easy to judge a fighter's methods from the safety and comfort of your living room, and behind the anonymity of the internet.

What haters don't realize is that both Gray and Fitch are under tremendous pressure to win, at any and all costs. The UFC has already shown a cutthroat mentality towards most fighters, and a willingness to cut them after a single loss. Factor in that both fighters are in contention for a title, and dana has been capricious about awarding titleshots, even after he's promised them.

So they can't afford to deviate from their bread and butter. If they lose, they face getting cut, regardless of how many win's they've had. If they don't get cut, minimally, they'll drop entirely out of the title picture.

Honestly, I don't find their styles any more boring than Bisping or Frankie Edgar's. You've got fighters who are naturally conservative, and don't take any degree of risk when they fight...the only difference is that you have wrestlers who do it on the ground instead of dancing in and out of range. Machida was criticized for the same thing before he started planting more and looking for knock outs...and look where that got him.

I also think it's funny that Sonnen isn't on the list...he's as much of a "blanket" on the ground as either of the guys in the poll, but there are two major differences: one, he talks a tremendous amount of shit, and some people find that entertaining, even if his fight style isn't; and two, he had the Silva fight to redefine him for many fans--but again, he didn't need to be cautious in the title match as Fitch and Gray do. Sonnen could afford to throw caution to the wind because he literally had nothing to lose: if he lost the fight conservatively, he wasn't going to get back into title contention, so he might as well go for broke.

rh

CtGreat
08-30-2010, 07:52 PM
beautiful? what's beautiful about having a guy bump n grind you for 15mins?
beautiful is watching them trying to fight standing and looking like shit doing it.

I laughed at this post.
By the way, is that picture in your sig legit? or photoshopped?

CHAEL fan
08-30-2010, 07:57 PM
Both fighters (Fitch & Gray) are great, really glad to see Maynard get his title shot, props to him for being a good sport and patiently waiting his turn.

Are they exciting? No. Are they tremendous wrestlers who excel at there strengths? Hell yes.

Whether you like it or not, Wrestling is the greatest foundation in MMA, and IMO is the greatest aspect of MMA.

willpunisher
08-30-2010, 09:28 PM
there is a difference between maynard/fitch and sonnen/frankie.
sonnen and frankie actually do work, punch, elbow and all they can after wrestling their opponent to the ground.
maynard and fitch dry hump their opponent for 15mins and want to be called great fighters. fuck that. you not a great fighter if you cant finish fights.

rivethead
08-30-2010, 10:33 PM
there is a difference between maynard/fitch and sonnen/frankie.
sonnen and frankie actually do work, punch, elbow and all they can after wrestling their opponent to the ground.
maynard and fitch dry hump their opponent for 15mins and want to be called great fighters. fuck that. you not a great fighter if you cant finish fights.

How many fights have Frankie and Sonnen finshed again?

I know you hate wrestlers. I know you think it's very very clever to call it bump and grind. I also know that they're all winning fights. If their opponent can't counter what they do, they're going to win, simple as that.

But for someone to discredit it--particularly when they're not even stepping in the cage against them--it amounts to whiners posting bullshit behind the anonymity of the internet.

I'd rather watch someone who does what they do with skill than someone who simply "stands in the pocket and bangs." I'd rather watch Frankie or Fitch not finish a fight than watch Leben or Cabbage all day long.

rh

singinkangaroooo
08-30-2010, 10:38 PM
there is a difference between maynard/fitch and sonnen/frankie.
sonnen and frankie actually do work, punch, elbow and all they can after wrestling their opponent to the ground.
maynard and fitch dry hump their opponent for 15mins and want to be called great fighters. fuck that. you not a great fighter if you cant finish fights.

thats what i was trying to get at (not fighter bashing or putting down wrestling)... i mean i gave examples of positive styles of this fighting but it remains true that Maynard and Fitch dont try nearly as hard to use their wrestling as a base and other skills to finish fights...

i agree wrestling is the best base to start MMA with but then you have wrestlers that dont quite evolve past basic skills of other areas... but to be a champion (Edgar, GSP, Couture, Lidell etc etc etc) you need to develop skills that complement to your wrestling to make you a complete wrecking machine...

i agree with the places that say that being able to dictate the where the fight goes is the best asset a MMArtist can have... if they get a great stand-up game they use wrestling not to be taken down, or they can go the Edgar approach and use really clean stand up to set up the TD much more effectivly.. or atleast develop a sub-game like GSP does (he atleast tries) if you want to stay on the ground... at bare minimum use BJJ to pass guard

Maynard is much closer to being a complete fighter than Fitch but neither really use alternate skills to finish and there is the the main problem: winning vs making the fans happy.. and these guys just go in it to win.. no shame there its just not what makes us happy

Rumble
08-30-2010, 10:40 PM
Oh God, just close this thread. No good can come from this topic

CHAEL fan
08-30-2010, 10:50 PM
How many fights have Frankie and Sonnen finshed again?

I know you hate wrestlers. I know you think it's very very clever to call it bump and grind. I also know that they're all winning fights. If their opponent can't counter what they do, they're going to win, simple as that.

But for someone to discredit it--particularly when they're not even stepping in the cage against them--it amounts to whiners posting bullshit behind the anonymity of the internet.

I'd rather watch someone who does what they do with skill than someone who simply "stands in the pocket and bangs." I'd rather watch Frankie or Fitch not finish a fight than watch Leben or Cabbage all day long.

rh

Good points....Myself, I would rather watch Gray & Fitch decision there opponents than watch The Korean Zombie and Bad Boy Garcia throw sloppy punches and what not.

Sniggles
08-31-2010, 01:17 PM
beautiful? what's beautiful about having a guy bump n grind you for 15mins?
beautiful is watching them trying to fight standing and looking like shit doing it.

Like Demian Maia right?

m1ckeykn0x
08-31-2010, 03:58 PM
They don't fucking care what the fans think, or want.

They want the win, no matter if they have to sniff flowers to get it.

Plain and fucking simple.

Oh well.

Hopefully one day we get to see somebody knock their asses the fuck out.

That's all you can do, is watch.

P.S. RARRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!! Okay, I'm good.

Dr. MMA
08-31-2010, 04:18 PM
I like Gray and Fitch. To tell you the truth, I don't see a comparison between them aside from using their wrestling base and their inability to finish, but there's a lot of fighters who fit into one of those categories or both.

In Gray's last few fights (aside from the one with Kenny), he chose to stand with Nate, Huerta and Miller. His gameplan against Frankie was the same too but he wasn't winning on the feet, so he went back to his wrestling.

Fitch, on the other hand, uses his wrestling to take down opponents in almost every fight. It's not like he does pitter patter punches while he's on the ground, he pressures his opponent to tire them out and beats their spirit out of them. That's what grinding is. It's what Couture does too, except he does it against the cage.