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View Full Version : Overreem Vs Cain or JDS



joeodd2
10-25-2010, 10:09 AM
If Dana White woke up with a brain tumor and the Owners got hooked on crack, they decided to buy Strikeforce, keeping Scott Coker (mainly because the owners think he might have some awesome rocks...Coker..Coke..Crack). Who do you think would win in a Match to unify the titles?

end it with a left
10-25-2010, 10:17 AM
well if cain was smart he would have overeem on his back till the fight is stopped. JDS would be interesting but i think Overeem outstrikes him.

initial_zen
10-25-2010, 12:14 PM
overeem vs cain would be very interesting, overeem's wrestling hasn't really been tested lately, so i think it could either way. I'm going to lean slightly toward overeem, he had incredible stand up and even if he does get taken down he has very good jits but i think it's a toss up. As far as JDS i think his strengths play to well into overeems, so i would go with overeem.

rivethead
10-25-2010, 06:08 PM
Either Cain or JDS beat Overeem pretty handily, in my opinion.

rh

rob_bills
10-25-2010, 06:15 PM
Overeem would smash JDS, not so sure about Cain but i would say its in ubereems favor

stpierrecanada
10-25-2010, 08:08 PM
Cain or JDS would beat Overeem most likely, but Overeem is so damn big and strong you can't count him out.

Trojan Fight Club
10-25-2010, 08:41 PM
I say Cain out wrestles Overeem and pounds him out on the ground, but JDS tries to stand with Overeem and goes down swinging.

JPeezy
10-25-2010, 09:21 PM
Either Cain or JDS beat Overeem pretty handily, in my opinion.

rh

+1. I don't see anybody beating Velasquez unless he gets caught with 1 big punch by a guy like Carwin. JDS I think beats Ovreem as well.

pantomime horse
10-26-2010, 05:51 AM
Either Cain or JDS beat Overeem pretty handily, in my opinion.

rh

Agreed. I'd still like to see it happen, though.

If he was in the UFC he'd have to fight much more than once every 3 years.

Hell, I'd take Shogun (again) in a rematch.

IceCold48
10-26-2010, 10:55 AM
he would lose to both of them. cain will take him down and neutralize the striking and AO has been knocked out quite a few times and i dont see why jds wouldnt do the same.

deadstealth
10-26-2010, 11:43 AM
overeem would ko cain. The height difference would play a factor and also possibly a guillotine. Cains only chance is to shoot every chance he gets. Cain could also use the cage. Its a good fight, but I think overeems striking, clinch and guillotine all play into cains weaknesses.

JDS loses the standup vs overeem. The question would be JDS BJJ. JDS might be stronger but overeem has many more tools standing and would be throwing/landing 3 for every 1 JDS threw/landed. Overeem by ko.

kickbox
11-10-2010, 09:54 PM
he would lose to both of them. cain will take him down and neutralize the striking and AO has been knocked out quite a few times and i dont see why jds wouldnt do the same.

Wrong:sadsong:...............Dos Santos is an elite k1 striker, which he proved by being able to compete in k1......so Alistaire Overeem would own both Cain and Dos Santos in standup and he has enough takedown defense and strength and submission skills to end the fight with a victory.

CHAEL fan
11-10-2010, 10:04 PM
Wrong:sadsong:...............Dos Santos is an elite k1 striker, which he proved by being able to compete in k1......so Alistaire Overeem would own both Cain and Dos Santos in standup and he has enough takedown defense and strength and submission skills to end the fight with a victory.

Wrong :sadsong:

Cain would pound Uber into dirt and JDS would knock his head off.

kickbox
11-10-2010, 10:12 PM
Wrong :sadsong:

Cain would pound Uber into dirt and JDS would knock his head off.

Wrong:sadsong: Overeem is a top k1 elite fighter, Dos Santos isnt so Im right. Look it up...... Overeem is k1 caliber, dont fool yourself.

CHAEL fan
11-10-2010, 10:15 PM
Wrong:sadsong: Overeem is a top k1 elite fighter, Dos Santos isnt so Im right. Look it up...... Overeem is k1 caliber, dont fool yourself.

I don't give two shits about K-1 junior.....this is MMA...look it up.

kickbox
11-10-2010, 10:18 PM
I don't give two shits about K-1 junior.....this is MMA...look it up.

You just said Dos Santos would ko Overeem! But forget to mention Overeem is a better striker than Dos Santos becuase Overeem is K1 level. In standup Overeem would win, he is a k1 fighter................being mma has nothing to do with it, striking is striking. The only way Dos Santos wins is by somehow submitting Overeem or doing gnp.

rivethead
11-10-2010, 10:41 PM
You just said Dos Santos would ko Overeem! But forget to mention Overeem is a better striker than Dos Santos becuase Overeem is K1 level. In standup Overeem would win, he is a k1 fighter................being mma has nothing to do with it, striking is striking. The only way Dos Santos wins is by somehow submitting Overeem or doing gnp.

No. Striking in K1 is very different than striking in MMA. MMA has feints to set up shots, has none of the rigid rules of MMA...there is a much more versatile approach to striking in MMA.

You're also falling victim to the "fighter x has competed in xx discipline, and fighter y hasn't, so he must be better." How many people simply assumed that lesnar was a better wrestler than Carwin or Cain because he was a DI NCAA champion and neither of them were? How many of those same people were surprised when lesnar got worked outwrestled by both of them?

Yes, AO is a legitimate elite K1 striker. That doesn't automatically mean that Dos Santos couldn't possibly also compete at that level, nor does it mean an automatic pass for the standup.

rh

kickbox
11-10-2010, 10:53 PM
No. Striking in K1 is very different than striking in MMA. MMA has feints to set up shots, has none of the rigid rules of MMA...there is a much more versatile approach to striking in MMA.

You're also falling victim to the "fighter x has competed in xx discipline, and fighter y hasn't, so he must be better." How many people simply assumed that lesnar was a better wrestler than Carwin or Cain because he was a DI NCAA champion and neither of them were? How many of those same people were surprised when lesnar got worked outwrestled by both of them?

Yes, AO is a legitimate elite K1 striker. That doesn't automatically mean that Dos Santos couldn't possibly also compete at that level, nor does it mean an automatic pass for the standup.

rh

Becuase Overeem also strikes in mma as well as in k1.Dos Santos isnt capable of striking with Overeem becuase of the skill difference. Dos Santos isnt a wrestler who could just faint a shot, also overeem is no stranger to grappling so He could beat Dos santos in standup. When it comes to striking Overeem wins hands down becuase he competes in k1 level competition. Also Dos Santos was never trained to become a k1 level fighter, Overeem did.......... Dos Santos striking is mma good not k1 good. Both have a good understanding of grappling and submissions, but Overeem is a k1 level striker so he would win the stand up. That much is obvious, your talking as if Dos Santos is some grappler with good standup.Not to mention striking in k1 would make a difference in mma, becuase (striking is striking). Dos Santos wont be able to feint and punch becuase it wouldnt work on Overeem since Overeem has a good grappling knowledge and superior standup.

rivethead
11-11-2010, 06:19 PM
Becuase Overeem also strikes in mma as well as in k1.Dos Santos isnt capable of striking with Overeem becuase of the skill difference. Dos Santos isnt a wrestler who could just faint a shot, also overeem is no stranger to grappling so He could beat Dos santos in standup. When it comes to striking Overeem wins hands down becuase he competes in k1 level competition. Also Dos Santos was never trained to become a k1 level fighter, Overeem did.......... Dos Santos striking is mma good not k1 good. Both have a good understanding of grappling and submissions, but Overeem is a k1 level striker so he would win the stand up. That much is obvious, your talking as if Dos Santos is some grappler with good standup.Not to mention striking in k1 would make a difference in mma, becuase (striking is striking). Dos Santos wont be able to feint and punch becuase it wouldnt work on Overeem since Overeem has a good grappling knowledge and superior standup.

Way to completely miss the point and just restate your erroneous assumptions.

Thank you for playing, but I'm pretty sure there's a nice comfy bridge somewhere with your name under it.



Written in crayon.



With the "b" backwards, just like mom taught you.

rh

Rise
11-11-2010, 07:39 PM
Cain vs Overeem - Cain outworks him and uses his wrestling to get the upper hand. Overeem has a punchers chance though

JDS vs Overeem: Really a toss up hard to say without seeing JDS ground game. Overeem wins on the striking end but it's close.

JDS vs Cain: JDS wins if his takedown defense is as good as I think it is

So in reality they all end up trading wins. I'd like to see a couple more fights against quality opponents before I'd say for sure though.

kickbox
11-13-2010, 03:36 AM
Way to completely miss the point and just restate your erroneous assumptions.

Thank you for playing, but I'm pretty sure there's a nice comfy bridge somewhere with your name under it.



Written in crayon.



With the "b" backwards, just like mom taught you.

rh

You are talking as if Im a charlatan. You impecunious fool, You think someone like Dos Santos can stand up with a pure elite class k1 striker? I know what you are trying to say, that sometimes mma striking can become different, since you might fear the takedown and get punched to the ground, but Dos santos isnt the takedown artist, so what you are implicating is that Dos Santos can strike with Overeem also becuase of the external factors of mma. Also Dos Santos isnt capable of beating a standup artist like Overeem or competing in k1, his mma striking should stay where it is.

joeyP
11-14-2010, 02:03 AM
I truly think that Overeem beats JDS because of height, reach, and versatility of strikes. JDS so far has only shown boxing to me, not any sign of mixing it up. Plus, I don't see JDS taking down Overeen

Cain is well rounded enough to definitely beat Overeem, but he's gotta set up his takedowns well or he could eat a knee on the way in.

rivethead
11-14-2010, 09:01 AM
You are talking as if Im a charlatan. You impecunious fool, Yay...someone discovered Thesaurus.com. Kudos! Hopefully tomorrow, you discover spell check!



You think someone like Dos Santos can stand up with a pure elite class k1 striker? I know what you are trying to say, that sometimes mma striking can become different, since you might fear the takedown and get punched to the ground, but Dos santos isnt the takedown artist, so what you are implicating is that Dos Santos can strike with Overeem also becuase of the external factors of mma. Also Dos Santos isnt capable of beating a standup artist like Overeem or competing in k1, his mma striking should stay where it is.

Again, you are basing all of your statements on assumptions. To break it down for you once again, people assumed lesnar was a better wrestler than Carwin and Cain because he was a DI NCAA champ and they weren't. Newsflash...he's not a better wrestler than either of them.

I'm not saying Dos Santos is a better striker. I'm saying we can't tell, because we haven't seen him tested in a pure striking match. He could very well be competitive in K1, I haven't seen anything that would preclude him from being successful.

I'm also saying that he beats AO in any MMA match 8 out of 10 times, because AO is entirely pedestrian on the ground. This is not an assumption, it's a glaring hole in his game that he's illustrated repeatedly. Yes, he's an elite striker. No, he doesn't transition well between disciplines. And no, his ground game is marginal at best.

rh

Pasha K
11-14-2010, 10:39 AM
Well I think Overeem beats JDS, JDS has very good boxing but IMO Overeem is better striker. About the ground game, Overeem has an OK ground game and we have not seen JDS´s ground game yet. But from I have seen I have Overeem winning the match

Cain vs Overeem would be very interesting, Cain was able to takedown Brock so I think he is capable of taking down Overeem too. I cant say any real predicition, Cain would have a lot of trouble in the feet but if he manages to takedown Overeem the match would probably end there.

m1ckeykn0x
11-14-2010, 08:42 PM
Wrong... :sadsong:

We'll never know anytime soon.

:angry4:

earle
11-14-2010, 09:25 PM
I think Overeem beats JDS. I don't have a good reason, just gut instinct. JDS has bullied everyone in the standup, but what will happen when he meets someone he can't bully around?

I would have to give Cain the advantage against Overeem but I wouldn't be that surprised if Allistair pulled it off. He won't run and cower in the stand up the way Brock did, and he could end it with one punch. Overeem has finished most of his HW opponents pretty quickly so I think endurance could come into play. Although Allistair doesn't seen to gas it's different when someone is on top of you throwing punches and you're constantly trying to get back to your feet. Yet Overeem could slap on that guillotine (he's got a pretty good one) and with his strength and arm size he could maybe tap Cain out. But unless it happens right at the beginning of the fight, I doubt it.

Cain via TKO round 3

Interesting that Bas Rutten ranks Overeem #1, he's positive Allistair could take out both guys and Brock too. Dutch bias?

kickbox
11-24-2010, 10:18 PM
Yay...someone discovered Thesaurus.com. Kudos! Hopefully tomorrow, you discover spell check!




Again, you are basing all of your statements on assumptions. To break it down for you once again, people assumed lesnar was a better wrestler than Carwin and Cain because he was a DI NCAA champ and they weren't. Newsflash...he's not a better wrestler than either of them.

I'm not saying Dos Santos is a better striker. I'm saying we can't tell, because we haven't seen him tested in a pure striking match. He could very well be competitive in K1, I haven't seen anything that would preclude him from being successful.

I'm also saying that he beats AO in any MMA match 8 out of 10 times, because AO is entirely pedestrian on the ground. This is not an assumption, it's a glaring hole in his game that he's illustrated repeatedly. Yes, he's an elite striker. No, he doesn't transition well between disciplines. And no, his ground game is marginal at best.

rh

Actually Im of higher acumen than most people, so I wouldnt be saying otherwise. Alistaire Overeem is good on the ground, he also has very devastating submissions, something JDS doesnt have. For the record JDS hasnt been training his whole life the art of striking, Overeem has, and Overeem trains like a k1 elite striker, also has the skills of a k1 elite striker. JDS doesnt have that ability since he hasnt focused on striking aspect his whole life. Now let me repeat myself, JDS doesnt train or doesnt have the ability or skills to become a k1 elite fighter. What you are saying is congruent to contemplating that the klitchko brothers are entering MMA, and thus since we dont know what JDS is capable of, he might outpunch them?!! Thats pretty much what you are getting at:laughing4:
JDS isnt on the level that AO is at, unless somehow the supposed ufc striker is going become a WORLD CLASS SUBMISSION EXPERT AGAINST AO!Dont forget to take in to account ability and or genetics, JDS simply doesnt have that. AO is a world class striker, training and being able to train as a world class striker,thus Dos santos is on a smaller pedestal than AO.:valh2::rtrp:

kickbox
11-24-2010, 10:30 PM
Nonetheless Rivethead you seem to have a clear intuition on fighting yourself, instead of flaming me like they do in Sherdog lol, you answer kindly like an educated person would and I thank you! But facts stand, We know AO has been training his whole life on how to strike, we know he is a very impressive striker, we also know he is world class. JDS is at best an MMA striker, who most likely would fail at competing with higher level strikers simply becuase he doesnt train like a world class striker. We can assume JDS isnt capable of fighting any higher level strikers becuase of that reputation he has as a good mma striker. But like you said, its (possible) that if he ever goes in to pro boxing or compete in k1 or anyother striking art/company that he could surprise us.

Masscore
11-24-2010, 10:40 PM
Personally I think Overeem is the new Barnett, a competely overrated fighter who is on a nice win streak but beaten no one of name value.

Overeem has a history of having a horrible gas tank and not being able to hold up any kind of pace after 5 mins. How do we think that would fair with the cardio monster that is Cain? If Overeem could not finish of Cain in the first 3 minutes he would be in a whole lot of trouble. And who says he would even get the chance to finish off Cain? The way Cain buzzsaws through people there is a good chance Overeem would be done in the first three minutes and never have a chance to get any offense off.

I think the same with JDS. Overeem would have his moments in the first 3 mins and then tire out and just be a sitting duck for JDS.

To be totally honest I think a lot of guys would beat Overeem pretty badly. Fedor, Werdum, Lesnar, Mir... pretty much anyone that can either get him to the ground or just handle the assault for three minutes.

kickbox
11-24-2010, 10:47 PM
Personally I think Overeem is the new Barnett, a competely overrated fighter who is on a nice win streak but beaten no one of name value.

Overeem has a history of having a horrible gas tank and not being able to hold up any kind of pace after 5 mins. How do we think that would fair with the cardio monster that is Cain? If Overeem could not finish of Cain in the first 3 minutes he would be in a whole lot of trouble. And who says he would even get the chance to finish off Cain? The way Cain buzzsaws through people there is a good chance Overeem would be done in the first three minutes and never have a chance to get any offense off.

I think the same with JDS. Overeem would have his moments in the first 3 mins and then tire out and just be a sitting duck for JDS.

To be totally honest I think a lot of guys would beat Overeem pretty badly. Fedor, Werdum, Lesnar, Mir... pretty much anyone that can either get him to the ground or just handle the assault for three minutes.

Its about skill, AO is indeed a superior striker and has a ground game. cardio wise he is great, he was in k1 for godsake. So he can compete and defeat the best the ufc has to offer...........the best the ufc has to offer lmao. Cain isn the face of the ufc at this point.

Masscore
11-25-2010, 06:19 AM
Its about skill, AO is indeed a superior striker and has a ground game. cardio wise he is great, he was in k1 for godsake. So he can compete and defeat the best the ufc has to offer...........the best the ufc has to offer lmao. Cain isn the face of the ufc at this point.

LOL at Overeem having great cardio... dude have you ever actually seen Overeem fight? You are assuming a lot based on 3 mins in K1 kickboxing matches. Overeem has well known cardio problems throughout his career. He comes out like a spit fire for about 3-5 mins and then dies.

Also, this is MMA not K1 kickboxing. Its a lot easier to be a great striker when you are not worried about a guy picking you up and slamming you down. Cain would take Overeem down and beat him until the ref pulled him off. If Cain can take Lesnar down there is no doubt he can take Overeem down.

kickbox
11-26-2010, 01:12 AM
LOL at Overeem having great cardio... dude have you ever actually seen Overeem fight? You are assuming a lot based on 3 mins in K1 kickboxing matches. Overeem has well known cardio problems throughout his career. He comes out like a spit fire for about 3-5 mins and then dies.

Also, this is MMA not K1 kickboxing. Its a lot easier to be a great striker when you are not worried about a guy picking you up and slamming you down. Cain would take Overeem down and beat him until the ref pulled him off. If Cain can take Lesnar down there is no doubt he can take Overeem down.

I did, and you are using hyperbole on me, his cardio isnt as bad as you make it out to be lol. And for the record, Overeem is agile and thus his takedown defense would work against Cain who is also agile. Cain took down Lesnar becuase Lesnar isnt exactly the most agile fighter in the UFC roster.

CHAEL fan
11-26-2010, 02:40 AM
I did, and you are using hyperbole on me, his cardio isnt as bad as you make it out to be lol. And for the record, Overeem is agile and thus his takedown defense would work against Cain who is also agile. Cain took down Lesnar becuase Lesnar isnt exactly the most agile fighter in the UFC roster.

Cain would demolish Uber.

kickbox
11-26-2010, 06:12 AM
Cain would demolish Uber.

Demolish is a little rough don't you think?

Masscore
11-26-2010, 07:45 PM
I did, and you are using hyperbole on me, his cardio isnt as bad as you make it out to be lol. And for the record, Overeem is agile and thus his takedown defense would work against Cain who is also agile. Cain took down Lesnar becuase Lesnar isnt exactly the most agile fighter in the UFC roster.

Cain has takendown everyone he has chosen to takedown. So Overeem would be no different. Overeem does not have any kind of wrestling background or shown any history in the past that he has any kind of takedown defense, nonetheless the level of wrestling it would take to stop Cain.

Here is how the fight goes: Bell rings, they circle, Overeem tries to rush in, Cain takes him down and Cain beats him until the ref pulls him off. Estimated time of fight... 3 mins.

Tyrone Horiuchi
11-27-2010, 05:09 PM
I guess I will go for Cain. He has beaten up Brock Lesnar who is a tough fighter to beat, Most of Lesnars loss came from his small mistakes especially on just playing offensively and not doing any defense like guarding, in short overconfident. So i go for Cain...

ERIK Bruhn
12-21-2010, 11:27 PM
Fedor Emelianenko is STILL greatest P4P fighter to ever walk the earth.

ERIK Bruhn
12-23-2010, 11:27 PM
Fedor is the King of MMA........... his standup, grappling, agility, defense and submission skills are on another level of combat...