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Kimbo> Rampage
03-16-2011, 02:43 AM
you know the rampage slam on arona, why dont more people do that when they get in a triangle. Iv rarely seen it in fights and in training but it works for me every time. I do roll and grapple from time to time but am not very good at bjj or ever taken a class iv been in boxing and muay thai for years. also slamming out of armbars.

what are the pros and cons to doing that.

Otomosix
03-16-2011, 04:26 AM
Well, the typical counter is for the bottom guy to hook under the knee of an opponent trying to stand/slam a triangle attempt. When that happens, the guy trying to stand will fall to the side (being off balance) and that is way worse because now the opponent has nowhere near the chance to maneuver out of the triangle (and often sets himself up for an additional armbar, too).

I think when Rampage used to do it back in the days of Pride, his strength and speed was relatively unknown to grapplers so it came as a bit of a surprise. You don't see him doing it as often nowadays (though one can also argue that Rampage's takedown defense has gotten better, too).

KevoOnTheRadio
03-16-2011, 04:32 AM
And the headbutt to Arona's chin didn't hurt either :grinsmile1:

Kimbo> Rampage
03-16-2011, 10:51 AM
Well, the typical counter is for the bottom guy to hook under the knee of an opponent trying to stand/slam a triangle attempt. When that happens, the guy trying to stand will fall to the side (being off balance) and that is way worse because now the opponent has nowhere near the chance to maneuver out of the triangle (and often sets himself up for an additional armbar, too).

I think when Rampage used to do it back in the days of Pride, his strength and speed was relatively unknown to grapplers so it came as a bit of a surprise. You don't see him doing it as often nowadays (though one can also argue that Rampage's takedown defense has gotten better, too).

ya when the try and grab the at the knee and are still able to power through it and stand up, what can they do then or what have they done wrong.

Sakara=Excitement
03-16-2011, 10:54 AM
The headbutt KO'd him, not the slam.

Otomosix
03-16-2011, 03:40 PM
ya when the try and grab the at the knee and are still able to power through it and stand up, what can they do then or what have they done wrong.

They picked a fight with a much bigger guy? LOL

As long as the guy on bottom hooks the crook of his elbow (not simply grabbing with only the hand) into the back of the standing guy's knee, he is safe from a power bomb. It helps to crank the opponent's knee toward your body while doing this to turn the leg inward (giving you more leverage to buckle it and the standing opponent back to the ground).

Failing to grab the back of the knee altogether, however...well, you're pretty much in for a ride. You can *try* to release your triangle in mid-air but that's way easier said than done in the moment.

Frasedog
03-16-2011, 04:44 PM
Just last weekend a guy tried to slam his way out of an armbar and hurt himself. Not sure exactly what teh injury turned out to be but the fight was over. Also a lot of guys slam to get out of the triangle and it just sinks them in deeper. The Rampage slam was just so viscious and Arona landed just right to get ko'd. It's far from common. Slam should be a last resort. You can stand and step over a guy from a triangle and escape that way, much higher success rate.

Hawkeye
03-16-2011, 04:47 PM
I've been on both ends of those slams and they are definitely not a pleasant way to start your day.

Kimbo> Rampage
03-16-2011, 04:47 PM
They picked a fight with a much bigger guy? LOL

As long as the guy on bottom hooks the crook of his elbow (not simply grabbing with only the hand) into the back of the standing guy's knee, he is safe from a power bomb. It helps to crank the opponent's knee toward your body while doing this to turn the leg inward (giving you more leverage to buckle it and the standing opponent back to the ground).

Failing to grab the back of the knee altogether, however...well, you're pretty much in for a ride. You can *try* to release your triangle in mid-air but that's way easier said than done in the moment.

ya thanks for the tips. i try to use them when im the one actually landing the triangle. the problem might be trying to grab the knee while im already posed up because his 1 arm isnt getting my leg down.

How long have you been doing bjj and how good are you. belt?



Just last weekend a guy tried to slam his way out of an armbar and hurt himself. Not sure exactly what teh injury turned out to be but the fight was over.

yes iv seen that numerous times. the triangle sometimes they dont slam down hard enough, they just kind of drop them and get it sunk in deeper. but the armbar is very tricky. iv seen it executed very well and i have seen guys get injured from trying to do that. what are you soposed to do to insure that you dont hurt your arm when you slam out of an armbar.

Frasedog
03-16-2011, 04:59 PM
yes iv seen that numerous times. the triangle sometimes they dont slam down hard enough, they just kind of drop them and get it sunk in deeper. but the armbar is very tricky. iv seen it executed very well and i have seen guys get injured from trying to do that. what are you soposed to do to insure that you dont hurt your arm when you slam out of an armbar.



I dont slam out of arm bars and triangles usually, but if I were to, I wouldnt do it if the arm was fully extended. Also curl my arm around the outside of the guys thigh before the lift. Believe me there are better ways of escape. Rich Franklin rolls out af armbars well. I can't remember who he was fighting, but he was on his back and you roll over to your belly and around into side control. Drill that, you'll like it better. It's all about timing.

Masscore
03-16-2011, 05:58 PM
Basically Rampage is a freak of nature when it comes to this power and very very few people can pull off what he did.

As my BJJ instructor once said "The best way to counter a triangle choke is... to stay out of the triangle choke."

b0sH
03-16-2011, 06:18 PM
Basically Rampage is a freak of nature when it comes to this power and very very few people can pull off what he did.

As my BJJ instructor once said "The best way to counter a triangle choke is... to stay out of the triangle choke."

Ha love it.

"Be water, my friend..........and if that doesn't work, pick the fucker up and slam him on his head."

dgil
04-05-2011, 11:31 PM
You'd underhook the leg like someone else said. Also, if they did slam someone in a triangle, if the slam didn't break the triangle, the person being choked just went from a normal triangle, to an even tighter one.

RobbieA
04-06-2011, 05:10 PM
Whenever I'm caught in a triangle, I lean forward, sit down and get my hooks in on his stomach then pull my head and arm out, I'd never risk slamming my way out of anything, as it could deepen the triangle/armbar. I do however roll out of armbars, when you are flat on your back and he has hooked one of your arms but you still are holding your hands clasped, push the leg thats closest to your face, above your head and roll into his guard, and bam, that works a lot for me. But that's only my own personal preferred escape, if you feel slamming your way out is effective, by all means continue doing it your way :)

Repenter
04-07-2011, 04:02 AM
several reasons. first, anyone attacking from the bottom of the guard worth his jockstrap knows to hook the leg the moment the trianglee starts to stack. second, not a lot of people possess the strength or explosive power to do a deadlift like that with someone of equal weight to you flailing from your neck. and third, you would never, ever train that for fear of euthanizing your partners, and it's illegal in grappling tournis. i saw a kid to it in the '08 pan-am nogi championships in NYC, and the guy was fucking ostracized for the rest of the tournament.

also, getting proper grips when your arm is properly across your face (as it should be) is pretty damn hard.

Kimbo> Rampage
04-07-2011, 07:07 AM
several reasons. first, anyone attacking from the bottom of the guard worth his jockstrap knows to hook the leg the moment the trianglee starts to stack. second, not a lot of people possess the strength or explosive power to do a deadlift like that with someone of equal weight to you flailing from your neck. and third, you would never, ever train that for fear of euthanizing your partners, and it's illegal in grappling tournis. i saw a kid to it in the '08 pan-am nogi championships in NYC, and the guy was fucking ostracized for the rest of the tournament.

also, getting proper grips when your arm is properly across your face (as it should be) is pretty damn hard.

thx good advice, i would definitely not use it in a tournament or rolling, but in a fight I would go for it before tapping. A lot of times I am able to get get back to my feet even when they hook the knee. Doesnt seem like a foolproof defense.

Repenter
04-07-2011, 05:15 PM
not foolproof, but when you're shaking off a triangle, the slightest thing going wrong can end you. in a real/mma fight, i would probably do it as well... but so much can go wrong, you can't count on it

Bas1
04-12-2011, 01:11 AM
You have to be very strong to be able to do that

TheKidInside
04-26-2011, 07:11 PM
by far the WORST defense is the slam as it MOST LIKELY will land you in a waaaay deeper triangle choke

prime example is my boy Byron ...

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p.s. slamming your opponent is illegal from the guard as well