PDA

View Full Version : Submitting a much larger opponent



rick56
07-22-2011, 10:23 PM
Hey all! so i finally found a pretty awesome submission wrestling/bjj school really close to my house. been going their for roughly 3 weeks now. So i have two tournaments this August and my coach said i should try my luck in the absolute division. any who, being about 5'3 weighing around 120-130lbs i tend to give up a lot of weight most the time during practice. not that its too big of a deal, i can use my wrestling experience to take their backs or mount but i find it hard to submit these big sobs.(i can win if we were scoring with points but i want the finish damn it!! lol) so far i've learned to forget to even try triangles or kneebars are people around 200lbs cause that just isn't going to happen. so i was just curious what would work best on someone much much bigger than you. the ones that worked best for me have been either arm bars or rnc's. pretty much all leg subs i go for never seem to work out. any ideas or suggestions on why might help me get a submission on someone who's bigger? i'm still very new to the sport and open to any suggestions you guys might have. and even if i don't do the absolute division these guys are still my practice partners so it would be awesome to submit them anyway :)

IceCold48
07-22-2011, 10:50 PM
what the fuck? are you like 14 or do you have dwarfism?

rick56
07-22-2011, 11:02 PM
what the fuck? are you like 14 or do you have dwarfism?


...i'm 21 and 5'3. so if that means i have dwarfism then sure bud, i guess i do. now that we got that out of the way do you have anything constructive to say or any advice to give? and if you live anywhere towards north west new jersey, your more than welcome to come roll with me and get chocked the f*ck out by a dwarf. or are you just a key board warrior?

rivethead
07-24-2011, 07:21 PM
what the fuck? are you like 14 or do you have dwarfism?
It's interesting that he has no control over his height and physical frame, and yet you have complete control over whether you choose to be an asshole or not.

And yet you still choose to be an asshole.

rh

IceCold48
07-24-2011, 07:43 PM
...i'm 21 and 5'3. so if that means i have dwarfism then sure bud, i guess i do. now that we got that out of the way do you have anything constructive to say or any advice to give? and if you live anywhere towards north west new jersey, your more than welcome to come roll with me and get chocked the f*ck out by a dwarf. or are you just a key board warrior?

sorry that i offended you i didnt mean to i was asking the question seriously i guess it didnt come across that way. when i said what the fuck i was referring to the fact that you are facing 200 pounders not your size.

as for advice, i dont really understand what kind of tournament makes 130 pund people go against 200 pound people but i would say go for chokes only. limb locks are very hard to do against stronger opponents even if you are in good position because its a test of strength in addition to jut superior grappling and bjj(ex. hardy/johnson fedor/big foot)


It's interesting that he has no control over his height and physical frame, and yet you have complete control over whether you choose to be an asshole or not.

And yet you still choose to be an asshole.

rh

i was being serious...but whatever he is obviously sensitive about it so im sorry. i dont get why your hating on me rivet and what are you referring to when your saying im still and asshole?

m1ckeykn0x
07-24-2011, 08:18 PM
I think Rick asked a great question for these boards. It's definitely something I, personally, am very interested in reading responses to.

Sounded kind of mean, Ice. :confusedsmilie:

Dr. MMA
07-24-2011, 08:50 PM
I'm surprised your coach suggested you should try your luck in the absolute division when 1) you have only been doing this for 3 weeks and 2) you would give up a significant size advantage.

That's just me thinking out loud but it obviously doesn't answer your question. When I grappled against guys 50+ lbs heavier, the only thing that seemed to work was RNC's. I pulled off triangles and arm triangles but the reason the former worked was because I hooked one of their legs ala Hominick/Edwards UFC 58, and the latter may cause you to lose position. Kimura's, armbars and guillotines never worked for me, as they powered out of each one. I did gi so we weren't able to do leg locks until we hit purple. Fancier submissions aren't recommended until you become more experienced, as they usually just cause you to take significant risks in losing position, which is why you rarely see them in BJJ competitions.

GL Jeff
07-24-2011, 09:36 PM
Your way to small and inexperienced to be in the absolute division, and even with more experience I would say your still giving up to much size to the BIG guys. RNC's are your best bet but honestly size does play a factor eventually,and its rare that I get submitted by someone much smaller then me, I would work on tricking them into giving something up, their is a choke you can try from full mouth. You reach behind their neck, grab the collar and then cross your arms grabbing the collar again and lean forward, forces a tap.

rick56
07-24-2011, 10:30 PM
Ice-sorry if i got a little upset about your comment i just figured you were trying to be a dick or something, but its all good though. no hard feelings :)

Also i have wrestled my whole life so i have a grappling background.(i even went to a grapplers quest and won first place in the beginner bracket) also me and friends would roll and an try submissions. so i have a decent sense of this stuff goes. but now im actually going to a place learning how to properly do things lol. However the thing is everybody i practice with is so much bigger than me and i do pretty well(i ususally get good positions and if it was on points i would win, i just can't get the finish!!), which is why an absolute division intrigues me. plus i don't think my coach would throw it out their if he felt i couldn't hold my own atleast. of course i will compete in my own weight class too, but how awesome would it be to win something like that?? i think it would be pretty sweet. plus im such a competitive person it would be a fun challenge at worse.

but i appreciate all the tips and comments you guys have since i'm really getting into grappling and a lot of you have so much experience i might as well take advantage of it :) and i've never really posted on these forums(even though i read through em all the time) so i guess i have to learn to explain myself and/or question better for you guys. thanks all!!!

dbader08
07-24-2011, 11:26 PM
you could possibly get an armbar, I armbarred this black dude at a party once who was a 3-a state qualifying wrestler who was like 35 pounds bigger than me Lol not that impressive for someone who didn't know how to defend an armbar but shit its not like i have any grappling experience so...it can be done.

if you get their back just act like your going hard for the choke, and when you hook one of their arms, use your other arm to push off their neck so you can swing into the armbar quicker. Cross your feet, with whatever feet is against their neck being the foot that is on bottom, making it harder for them to roll into it and power out of it. if you have a pretty strong core and are quick about it, you shouldn't have to worry about hooking their leg, as it seems like it kinda gives up a little bit of the power, and you would want as much power and to be able to crank on that arm as quick as you could with it being someone much bigger.

Also just work on getting a very powerful squeeze. I'm sure you could find videos on google or youtube explaining how to make it more powerful. According to eddie Bravo, sitting down and bringing your knee close to your chest and RNC'ing it will help it alot, though it kinda hurts your arm if you do it alot in a short period of time.

Either way, its going to be hard as shit to do against someone much bigger. There are weight classes for a reason.

mmawolverine
07-24-2011, 11:40 PM
unless you are a smurf version of marcelo garcia i would consider the absolute division tournament just for fun, but if you are serious i would stick to chokes and tiring out the comletition with transitions and top control and lots of stalling wristlocks, eddie bravo talks alot about working on your grip and your choke, for example an exercise where u sit with one knee bent and basically try to choke out your knee, pretend your kneecap is the head of opponent and try to cut his head off. marcelo may not be the strongest in terms of brute force but his chokes are as tight as any one pound for pound. do lots of calisthenics and try to google or youtube eddie bravo. have fun and good luck and dont take offense to ice, we joke around with each other on this forum no hard feelings.

rick56
07-25-2011, 02:49 PM
unless you are a smurf version of marcelo garcia i would consider the absolute division tournament just for fun, but if you are serious i would stick to chokes and tiring out the comletition with transitions and top control and lots of stalling wristlocks, eddie bravo talks alot about working on your grip and your choke, for example an exercise where u sit with one knee bent and basically try to choke out your knee, pretend your kneecap is the head of opponent and try to cut his head off. marcelo may not be the strongest in terms of brute force but his chokes are as tight as any one pound for pound. do lots of calisthenics and try to google or youtube eddie bravo. have fun and good luck and dont take offense to ice, we joke around with each other on this forum no hard feelings.

I wish i was a smurf version of Marcelo! and yeah im not taking any hard feelings so no worries.

I just watched that video of of Bravo showing how to choke out your knee, i'm a start doing that during down time. so far it seems chokes and positions are your best bet against someone bigger.

Masscore
07-25-2011, 03:13 PM
Chokes or ankle locks. No matter how big you are you still need blood flow to the head and ankles are fragile. I am 5'6 and walk around at 160 and roll regularly with my friend who is about 6'2 and 230. He beats me most of the time but when I do beat him its either with a RNC or an ankle lock.

LefthookStcrook
07-25-2011, 04:17 PM
what the fuck? are you like 14 or do you have dwarfism?

Lol Im 24, 5'6 and 125-130 pounds lol thanxs dude. :sadsong:

On Topic:

I've trained JJ for a few years off n on, and we're not much difference in size, so I can relate.

You dont know how many times I've been dumped on my head going for triangles, hooking the leg can be a life-saver.

But my personal fav against a bigger guy is most deffinetly the RNC or Guillotine. Us smaller guys are pretty good at scrambling, Thats where I'll land most of my stuff on bigger guys. I have naturally long arms which dont hurt either.

You said you have a good top game?, Then your styling. Trip the giant to his back, maintain position first, then stay busy. He wont like being on his back and eventually he'll make his move to get up.

Swing and take his back, or dive on the guillotine. Anyway you gotta choke these fuckers out imo lol!

Best of luck to yeah, keep us posted.


I am 5'6 and walk around at 160 and roll regularly with my friend who is about 6'2 and 230. He beats me most of the time but when I do beat him its either with a RNC or an ankle lock.

Lol its a goodtime eh

Im 5'6, 130 and roll with my buddy regularly whose like 6'2, 200 and ripped. Hes a nut and would most likley rip my head off in a street fight. But everytime I wrap my arms around his neck and lock in a choke...its a goodtime lol, I know he aint going anywheres.

Im not a big fan of anklelocks in general. Most of the time your opponent can attempt one too, and Ive broken both ankles, one of them twice lol, not my cup of tea.

Masscore
07-25-2011, 04:28 PM
Lol its a goodtime eh

Im 5'6, 130 and roll with my buddy regularly whose like 6'2, 200 and ripped. Hes a nut and would most likley rip my head off in a street fight. But everytime I wrap my arms around his neck and lock in a choke...its a goodtime lol, I know he aint going anywheres.

Im not a big fan of anklelocks in general. Most of the time your opponent can attempt one too, and Ive broken both ankles, one of them twice lol, not my cup of tea.

Yes it is when you get to tap the guy out. I like rolling with him because it takes me out of my comfort zone. When I go against a guy my size I go into wrestling mode and work off the top. With him I can not outwrestle him and work takedowns due to his size and the fact he also has a wrestling background. So I get to pull guard and look for sweeps and attempt submissions off the bottom for a change.

And your broken ankle story is why I like ankle locks. No matter how big and strong you are it still hurts like a bitch when someone twist your ankle.

rick56
07-25-2011, 08:17 PM
I never really thought about attacking the ankles to much, i'm going to try that tomorrow against the bigger guys and see how that works. seems to make sense though, other than a arm bar were they can just curl me up they cant do that too much with their ankles. thanks for that!

and yeah my takedowns are pretty good. especially some of my wrestling stuff that these guys don't know too well. and the nice thing about being.."compact" i can squirm and shrimp myself out pretty well and eventually take their backs. only bad thing is when im on top sometimes i just get plained out muscled when they do certain sweeps but i suppose thats going to happen sometimes.

I'm going to NAGA battle at the beach in wild wood New Jersey Agust 6th. idk if i'll do absolute but it just seems really intriguing and i want to give it a try. i also want to try gi but i've never practiced with one so that probably wouldn't be a good idea lol

TBEAR
07-26-2011, 04:31 PM
In Germany I rolled with some HWs (245-250) and I am 6'2 and walk at about 215-220

RNC is the best way. Control postion, pass and lock it up. Those huge guys (or anyone 30+ pounds larger than you can power out of most arm bars, triangles etc and can get you slamed on your head)

TheKidInside
07-27-2011, 04:56 PM
I know a smurf version of Marcelo, my trainer Rome. (I've trained at Marcelinho's before). and against larger dudes he most definitely recommends the guillotine or RNC (obviously after take the back) you gotta be slick and have perfect timing and technique not only against "much larger guys" but against much stronger dudes as well, such as dudes with a ton of wrestling experience. my two cents sir :)

Frasedog
07-27-2011, 05:08 PM
Chokes work well on big guys. Are you competing gi, no gi or both?

rick56
07-28-2011, 12:57 AM
So far it seems I'm a do no gi and gi. Although I've never wore a gi in my life and just borrowing one from a buddy at the gym. I'm thinking maybe a absolute division might just be out the question but who knows. I like all the advice and tips though, cause at worse I'll hopefully be able to tap out the bigger guys in practice lol :P

Leucoethiops
08-08-2011, 05:27 PM
I wish there was a BJJ school here in this city...

TheDoucheyWun
08-08-2011, 05:52 PM
I agree with most and say RNC and Guillitine is your smartest bet, their are other ones that could be effective but i'd stick to the basic's. Im bout 5 ft 10 155lbs and I cant recall the last time any of my bigger friends have gotten out of my chokes I fuckin spider monkey that shit!

Repenter
09-10-2011, 03:29 PM
armbars, especially inverted ones. if you have them in your guard and they're larger than you, and especially if you're all new to the sport, they'll be hanging their arms down waiting to get them torn off. work on inverted armbars where you can actually use your small frame to your advantage, in that you can scoot out and ride up the arm quickly.

also, althought kneebars and heelhooks are going to be off limits at your level, leglocks work well for smaller guys in scrambles. anklelocks and even achilles locks are something you should experiment with.

if you're doing gi, then the possibilites are endless. the gi takes away a lot of that size advantage with the constant threat of lapel chokes. have you tried mounted ezekials? work especially well against larger opponents who think they can just shrug you off

TheKidInside
09-15-2011, 09:34 AM
dude with the gi? X CHOKE FROM THE GUARD...it has never failed me in competition.

Repenter
09-19-2011, 12:58 AM
dude with the gi? X CHOKE FROM THE GUARD...it has never failed me in competition.

that's small guy jiu jitsu 101... and playing that cross-collar lapel game opens you up to all sorts of junk. my favorite is throwing an armbar when they overcommit to blocking the cross-collar, and not letting go of the lapel

dbader08
09-20-2011, 07:12 PM
I wish there was a BJJ school here in this city...

I know how you feel. My car is not near reliable enough to drive an hr and 15 minutes 4 or 5 days a week to make it to practice.

rick56
09-27-2011, 02:50 PM
armbars, especially inverted ones. if you have them in your guard and they're larger than you, and especially if you're all new to the sport, they'll be hanging their arms down waiting to get them torn off. work on inverted armbars where you can actually use your small frame to your advantage, in that you can scoot out and ride up the arm quickly.

also, althought kneebars and heelhooks are going to be off limits at your level, leglocks work well for smaller guys in scrambles. anklelocks and even achilles locks are something you should experiment with.

if you're doing gi, then the possibilites are endless. the gi takes away a lot of that size advantage with the constant threat of lapel chokes. have you tried mounted ezekials? work especially well against larger opponents who think they can just shrug you off

hmmm, never thought of doing an inverted arm bar. i'm going to try that tonight and see how it goes! thanks for that

and when i do go to grappling tournaments i enter both no-gi and gi-division. although at my gym we don't train with the gi i do it just for fun and just go with the flow.

oh and i remember when i started this thread a lot of people were quick to say i was too small and shouldn't do an absolute division. well i went to a UGC grappling tournament in P.A. and did the absolute division and took second!! the guy who beat me was 196lbs and i was 126lbs. right off the bat i jumped at him an sank a deep guillotine choke in but couldn't finish :/ and ended up losing 6-2. (if i knew how i would try to post some videos) but i beat three guys all much bigger, stronger and much more experienced than me. plus all of your inputs from everyone has helped me greatly!!

dbader08
10-02-2011, 07:40 AM
Rick56 is the most Epic name ever hahahaha

rick56
10-02-2011, 08:44 PM
Rick56 is the most Epic name ever hahahaha

:P hahaha

MrSpanky
10-02-2011, 09:26 PM
Hey all! so i finally found a pretty awesome submission wrestling/bjj school really close to my house. been going their for roughly 3 weeks now. So i have two tournaments this August and my coach said i should try my luck in the absolute division. any who, being about 5'3 weighing around 120-130lbs i tend to give up a lot of weight most the time during practice. not that its too big of a deal, i can use my wrestling experience to take their backs or mount but i find it hard to submit these big sobs.(i can win if we were scoring with points but i want the finish damn it!! lol) so far i've learned to forget to even try triangles or kneebars are people around 200lbs cause that just isn't going to happen. so i was just curious what would work best on someone much much bigger than you. the ones that worked best for me have been either arm bars or rnc's. pretty much all leg subs i go for never seem to work out. any ideas or suggestions on why might help me get a submission on someone who's bigger? i'm still very new to the sport and open to any suggestions you guys might have. and even if i don't do the absolute division these guys are still my practice partners so it would be awesome to submit them anyway :)

I wouldn't do absolute especially if it's a larger tournament because you'll fight guys who are a lot bigger than you. I'm a bit taller and a bit heavier and I separated my AC joint in my shoulder rolling with a guy who was 220 something, much like guys you could end up fighting if you do absolute. But if you're going to do it, watch this Marcelo Garcia video. He's a small guy but he takes bigger fighters' backs like it's nothing.

I can't figure out how to embed the video, just go to the link. The only Marcelo Garcia video that matters - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY8JlJZBgCk)

tapper
11-01-2011, 01:11 PM
if you're getting the back often try working the ninja or bow and arrow choke, people never see those coming, good luck.