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Kimbo> Rampage
08-01-2011, 12:44 PM
Who wins the rematch and why? the first was as close as you can get for a title fight.

http://i332.photobucket.com/albums/m344/luiscruz956/hendo.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m312/bodysilencer/RampageJacksonvsDanHenderson.jpg

KevoOnTheRadio
08-01-2011, 12:58 PM
The first one was pretty close, but I'd give it to Hendo. Honestly, I'm more interested in seeing Hendo/Silva II, but at 205.

Kimbo> Rampage
08-01-2011, 01:05 PM
Yes. Dan is the strikforce LHW champion, there could be a merger down the line. It would be cool if he and rampage merged the belts again. It could go either way. Jones would be a tougher fight for him.

But I would also love to see him fight Anderson again as well. To me they are clearly the 2 best MWs of all time. He was Anderson's toughest fight outside of sonnen anyways in the UFC.

Masscore
08-01-2011, 01:21 PM
I personally thought Henderson won the first fight but it was very very close. Given how the two have fought in the last four years, Henderson has gotten a lot better and Rampage has kind of taken a slide. So in a rematch I think Henderson would win in another close decision.

Also I would like to see Henderson v. Silva II but Ed Soares will never allow that fight to happen.

mmawolverine
08-01-2011, 01:26 PM
i basically think henderson deserves a title rematch in one of the two divsions that he unified the pride title, it didnt make sense that he lost both but didnt get a rematch especially the rampage fight which was very close and on the ground henderson spend so much time taking him down and trying that kimura and the striking was so even i need to see that one again it doesnt get talked about much, glad you brought up the subject, oh and i say henderson takes the rematch in either case against page or the spider.

Kimbo> Rampage
08-01-2011, 03:28 PM
It would be a great rematch. The first could have gone either way. Hendo got rampage down, but rampage also got hendo down and reversed him. It may have come down to the standup. I remember both landing huge bombs but rampage seemed to be the more accurate puncher and could have won based on that. It could go either way this time but im betting it would still be another close decision. Both have some of the best p4p power in mma but they also have some of the best chins in mma as well.

Rampage still has his boxing skill, but I do question if he would be as sharp now. He was training under Juanito back then and now his hands dont look as crisp or accurate. Still id bet that it would be another close decision.

But if Rampage cant get past Jones then Hendo will be looking at a much tougher fight to unify the belts. He could take what jones does standing, but would he be able to stop a Jones takedown? He may want to try and get Jon down before he gets him down.

The_Icon
08-01-2011, 07:26 PM
I think Hendo would take it but it would be a great fight and I'd love to see it again.

rivethead
08-01-2011, 08:07 PM
I thought Henderson outpointed him in the first one.

It was also his first fight back under UFC rules, without the benefit of the tune-up fights that most PRIDE fighters got. [not to mention that the whole concept of the unification bouts between the UFC and PRIDE was fucking stupid, because they were held under UFC rules, anyway.]

As of now, I have Dan beating rampage in a rematch 8 times out of 10, and if Anderson were to face him at 205, he beats him 7 out of 10.

rh

Kimbo> Rampage
08-02-2011, 12:20 AM
I thought Henderson outpointed him in the first one.


I could see that, it was very close, could have gone either way.



As of now, I have Dan beating rampage in a rematch 8 times out of 10, and if Anderson were to face him at 205, he beats him 7 out of 10.

rh

8/10 Times is a bit much. its got to be close to 5/10 times. Dan has improved his striking a ton over the years. He doesnt just always look for the H bomb overhand, he throws a lot of straight rights, right hooks, lefts hooks, and uppercuts. All with power, but not sure his boxing is on rampage's level. He and rampage both have great chins and huge power, but rampage would still probably be better at avoiding hendo's punches and be more accurate with his own. Hendo has a slight wrestling advantage, Rampage did hold his own in the first and is bigger and stronger.

Sure rampage is not as sharp as he was with his hands as he was in the first fight, but he could still get the better of hendo standing. It would still probably be close and would go to a decision.

saying Dan beats Anderson 7/10 Times is even more hard to belive. He always has the chance to end the fight with a huge shot, but Anderson is the best striker in mma and would likely counter Dan when he comes in aggressive and land a ton of shots. Dan could get a UD over anderson as well as anyone, even more likely than Chael if he used his wrestling and just kept taking Anderson down, but that isnt Dans style and one of the only fights that he would be foolish to not use that strategy in is vs Anderson.

initial_zen
08-02-2011, 12:26 AM
dan has been looking very motivated and in great shape as of late.. well have to see how rampage looks in his upcoming bout but id take hendo... but its close, and would be a great bout

rivethead
08-02-2011, 07:40 AM
saying Dan beats Anderson 7/10 Times is even more hard to belive. He always has the chance to end the fight with a huge shot, but Anderson is the best striker in mma and would likely counter Dan when he comes in aggressive and land a ton of shots. Dan could get a UD over anderson as well as anyone, even more likely than Chael if he used his wrestling and just kept taking Anderson down, but that isnt Dans style and one of the only fights that he would be foolish to not use that strategy in is vs Anderson.

It was the first time he'd made the cut back to MW in almost two years. By all accounts, he had a terrible weight cut and Anderson still had nothing to offer him until he gassed. When Dan ground and pounds, it actually hurts.

rh

Punk Ass
08-02-2011, 08:14 AM
It was the first time he'd made the cut back to MW in almost two years. By all accounts, he had a terrible weight cut and Anderson still had nothing to offer him until he gassed. When Dan ground and pounds, it actually hurts.

rhUnless he blamed the loss on a terrible weight cut, I'm not sure we should make excuses for him. And even if he did make that excuse, it's still an excuse.

rivethead
08-02-2011, 08:52 AM
Unless he blamed the loss on a terrible weight cut, I'm not sure we should make excuses for him. And even if he did make that excuse, it's still an excuse.

I'm not making any excuses for anyone.

I'm saying Anderson looked only looked good against him after he gassed, and if they faced each other at 205, he wouldn't be cutting.

Believe what you want...but I believe Dan beats Anderson 7 out of 10 at 205.

rh

dbader08
08-03-2011, 01:14 AM
Rampage definitely landed the more solid punches in the first fight, and definitely did better as the fight went on, but I could see Henderson edging the first couple of rounds and possibly edging the 3rd or 4th, either way it was very close, I just felt like the few good flurries Rampage landed-especially the couple that seemed to rock Dan-were more signifigant than anything Dan did.

I would take Rampage in the rematch. The main things that Rampage has had problems with in the UFC is quick takedowns mixed with striking and leg kicks, and Dan isn't that great at doing either. Hes a grecko guy but Rampage is so strong, hes just hard to bully around. They both have iron chins but I would give a slight edge in power to Rampage. Rampage has a better jab also, and hes better at blocking punches than Dan in my opinion.


I'm not making any excuses for anyone.

I'm saying Anderson looked only looked good against him after he gassed, and if they faced each other at 205, he wouldn't be cutting.

Believe what you want...but I believe Dan beats Anderson 7 out of 10 at 205.

rh

riv, saying Dan was gassed is a terrible excuse. It was only the 2nd round, and the entire 1st round was spent with Henderson in his most favorite position, on top of someone. It wasn't a very busy round at all. Plus, it was a title fight, he had months to prepare, and he had jumped from weight class to weight class in the past several times.

Also, saying Dan's GNP actually hurts-Chael's ground and pound was FAR more effective than the pitter patter hammerfist ground and pound Dan did to Anderson in the first fight, and this is something that can not at all be blamed on Hendo being gassed, by anyone, considering it was the first round.

Anderson cuts more weight than Dan to get to 185, and in my own personal opinion he beats Dan just as easily at 205.

SimpleJack
08-03-2011, 01:18 AM
If Dan came in as strong as he did against Fedor, it would be a long night for Rampage.

dbader08
08-03-2011, 01:38 AM
If Dan came in as strong as he did against Fedor, it would be a long night for Rampage.

Rampage isn't going to walk him down swining wildly, or let Dan reverse positions after knocking him down (I still don't know what the hell Fedor was thinking)

SimpleJack
08-03-2011, 01:53 AM
I agree, but my point was that Dan looked remarkably strong at that weight.

Kimbo> Rampage
08-03-2011, 02:05 AM
Rampage definitely landed the more solid punches in the first fight, and definitely did better as the fight went on, but I could see Henderson edging the first couple of rounds and possibly edging the 3rd or 4th, either way it was very close, I just felt like the few good flurries Rampage landed-especially the couple that seemed to rock Dan-were more signifigant than anything Dan did.

I would take Rampage in the rematch. The main things that Rampage has had problems with in the UFC is quick takedowns mixed with striking and leg kicks, and Dan isn't that great at doing either. Hes a grecko guy but Rampage is so strong, hes just hard to bully around. They both have iron chins but I would give a slight edge in power to Rampage. Rampage has a better jab also, and hes better at blocking punches than Dan in my opinion.



riv, saying Dan was gassed is a terrible excuse. It was only the 2nd round, and the entire 1st round was spent with Henderson in his most favorite position, on top of someone. It wasn't a very busy round at all. Plus, it was a title fight, he had months to prepare, and he had jumped from weight class to weight class in the past several times.

Also, saying Dan's GNP actually hurts-Chael's ground and pound was FAR more effective than the pitter patter hammerfist ground and pound Dan did to Anderson in the first fight, and this is something that can not at all be blamed on Hendo being gassed, by anyone, considering it was the first round.

Anderson cuts more weight than Dan to get to 185, and in my own personal opinion he beats Dan just as easily at 205.

Its hard to really say who has more power, both hit so damn hard. Dan has improved his standup a ton over the years, but is his boxing on par with rampages? Not sure about that. The wrestling is almost a wash between them. They both will ko any opponent they fight if they land a good shot, except each other. The other thing is that Dan has improved some since the first fight while rampage i question if his hands are as sharp as the first time they fought. Training with Juanito and Team Punishment to training with The Wolfs Lair is a big downgrade.

It is really hard to score those rounds, it could have gone either way but rampage got it.

As far as Anderson, Dan probably has the best shot of any MW to beat him. He won the first round, but chose to stand with Anderson too long in the 2nd. Not getting ko'd, but he clearly got hurt. Anderson has insane accuracy and was landing more than he missed. Did chael really hurt anderson once he got him to the ground? Id hate to see what Dan would do to an Injured anderson that fought chael.

Also, I have asked u a couple of times where do you keep getting these numbers to what Anderson actually cuts from? He said what he weighed a couple of times while not fighting or in camp and people run with it acting like he cuts down from that weight. Anderson cutting 30 pounds in water weight.... your insane.


I agree, but my point was that Dan looked remarkably strong at that weight.

Yes, now that it seems it wants to stay at LHW for good he seems to be in very good shape. He seems stronger and still doesnt have to cut. He has added some muscle for the permanent move.

dbader08
08-03-2011, 02:20 AM
As far as Anderson, Dan probably has the best shot of any MW to beat him. He won the first round, but chose to stand with Anderson too long in the 2nd. Not getting ko'd, but he clearly got hurt. Anderson has insane accuracy and was landing more than he missed. Did chael really hurt anderson once he got him to the ground? Id hate to see what Dan would do to an Injured anderson that fought chael.

Also, I have asked u a couple of times where do you keep getting these numbers to what Anderson actually cuts from? He said what he weighed a couple of times while not fighting or in camp and people run with it acting like he cuts down from that weight. Anderson cutting 30 pounds in water weight.... your insane.



Its not like its easy for Dan to take Anderson down, he doesn't have the drive-straight-through-you takedown ability of a Chael Sonnen, I know Anderson stuffed a couple takedowns. Also, you do know that Anderson had to go to the hospital after the post fight press conference for his fight with Chael, right? It is my firm belief that Chael has equally as good of gnp as Hendo. Hendo did virtually nothing on the ground to Rampage, Franklin, and Silva. Chael can punch at a much higher volume than Dan can without getting tired, and Silva isn't an easy guy at all to land good shots on even when he's hurt. As many hard shots as Chael landed, he also missed quite a few. Dan is more content more of the time to just chill on top of someone and make sure he holds position rather than going balls to the wall like Chael, partly because Chael is stronger imo and a more relentless wrestler, and better at getting up off of his back. Just look at what happened to Dan when Silva had him on his back, and Chael, Chael reversed him right away.

...and really, I'm insane?...


I’m used to training against bigger guys,” said Silva. A lot of people talk about moving up and down in weight,” he said. “For me, it is a little difficult to cut weight to make 185, but I walk around at 215 to 220 pounds, so for me to cut to 185, I do have to eat a little bit of a different diet, and do a little bit of a different type of cardio workout to get my weight down. For 205, I just eat differently, and I don’t have to cut as much weight. But both 185 and 205 work fine for me.” Anderson Silva Talks Weight Class Adjustments, 185 lbs vs 205 lbs | World Extreme Fighter ~ MMA Fights, Girls and Action (http://worldextremefighter.com/2009/07/29/anderson-silva-talks-weight-class-adjustments-185-lbs-vs-205-lbs/) ....ohhh, what's this? That would actually be 35 pounds, my friend. Obviously it isn't all water weight but what is your point? Henderson should have to cut less water weight than him considering he walks around at a lower weight.


and DonFrye, that is not a very good point, considering for the Fedor fight, Hendo only weighed 2 pounds over what he usually weighs at LHW anyways, and it was just water weight...just saying, man.

Kimbo> Rampage
08-03-2011, 02:33 AM
Also, you do know that Anderson had to go to the hospital after the post fight press conference for his fight with Chael, right?

It was probably mainly revolving around the rib injury. Not because Chael did serious damage with his GNP.


Anderson Silva Talks Weight Class Adjustments, 185 lbs vs 205 lbs | World Extreme Fighter ~ MMA Fights, Girls and Action (http://worldextremefighter.com/2009/07/29/anderson-silva-talks-weight-class-adjustments-185-lbs-vs-205-lbs/) ....ohhh, what's this?



He said he walks around at that weight. Just like Forrest and Rampage have been known to weight 250+ that doesnt mean that they cut the water weight from that point. All fighters dont stay in perfect shape when they are not fighting. Its not like he just goes in the sauna for the weigh ins weighing that much. Fighters lose a ton of weight during their camps. When all is said and done, he has his body fat % down from his camp, he isnt anywhere near 220 when he fights at MW. He has fought at 167 for a large part of his career, He isnt as big as many make him out to be. Watch is upcoming fight with Okami, that is a huge MW.

I love how people will find out a fighters weight at a random point and run with it.

"Rampage Cuts from 250"
"Anthony Johnson cuts from 220"

dbader08
08-03-2011, 02:38 AM
It was probably mainly revolving around the rib injury. Not because Chael did serious damage with his GNP.


He said he walks around at that weight. Just like Forrest and Rampage have been known to weight 250+ that doesnt mean that they cut the water weight from that point. All fighters dont stay in perfect shape when they are not fighting. Its not like he just goes in the sauna for the weigh ins weighing that much. Fighters lose a ton of weight during their camps. When all is said and done, he has his body fat % down from his camp, he isnt anywhere near 220 when he fights at MW. He has fought at 167 for a large part of his career, He isnt as big as many make him out to be. Watch is upcoming fight with Okami, that is a huge MW.

I know I went back and edited my post clarifying that, and said that while that is a valid point, the same point is valid for Henderson. I doubt Henderson stays in perfect shape all the time either, hes definitely had fights where he hasn't looked as good as alot of the time and has gassed, like his fight with shields. Either way you look at it, Anderson has to cut more weight.

I guess you just didn't read the part where Anderson said it was a bit difficult for him to make 185?

Also, what makes you think he wouldnt also have a strength and conditioning advantage at 205 just like Hendo does, since he is in fact the bigger fighter, and since both of his performances at 205 were flawless?

The only time Henderson has ever said making 185 was difficult, was when he fought Shields, which was in a large part due to a prescribed medication that he was taking. Either way, that wasn't the case for his fight with Silva.

Kimbo> Rampage
08-03-2011, 02:48 AM
I know I went back and edited my post clarifying that, and said that while that is a valid point, the same point is valid for Henderson. I doubt Henderson stays in perfect shape all the time either, hes definitely had fights where he hasn't looked as good as alot of the time and has gassed, like his fight with shields. Either way you look at it, Anderson has to cut more weight.


All speculation. Im not going to claim to know exactly how much anderson weighs before he starts cutting water weight or during a fight at mw, but I guess that not to be the case. Dan is a natural MW, you could also argue that Anderson is also a natural MW. but that fact is that a huge chunk of his career Anderson fought below 170. He has never been a very muscular guy. But being tall and lanky everybody says how huge he is.

Look at other guys like Kendall grove, Diabate, or Cory hill. Just because you are tall and lanky doesnt mean that your natural weight is much larger than other fighters in your division.

The term "Frame" can go many different ways, depending on how people personally see it.

For Example:Take a guy like carlos condit who is listed at 6'1 with a 76 inch reach. Just as Rampage is. That doesnt mean that they have the same frame. Bone structures, natural muscle and other factors come into the equation. Look how much broader rampage's shoulders are, look at the difference in the size of their hands, heads, hips, etc. The natural muscle that rampage has that carlos doesnt.

Guys can add a ton of muscle while others wont so it can become tricky, but you cannot just go by Height and Reach to determine somebody's "Frame".

dbader08
08-03-2011, 02:52 AM
All speculation. Im not going to claim to know exactly how much anderson weighs before he starts cutting water weight or during a fight at mw, but I guess that not to be the case. Dan is a natural MW, you could also argue that Anderson is also a natural MW. but that fact is that a huge chunk of his career Anderson fought below 170. He has never been a very muscular guy. But being tall and lanky everybody says how huge he is.

Look at other guys like Kendall grove, Diabate, or Cory hill. Just because you are tall and lanky doesnt mean that your natural weight is much larger than other fighters in your division.

The term "Frame" can go many different ways, depending on how people personally see it.

For Example:Take a guy like carlos condit who is listed at 6'1 with a 76 inch reach. Just as Rampage is. That doesnt mean that they have the same frame. Bone structures, natural muscle and other factors come into the equation. Look how much broader rampage's shoulders are, look at the difference in the size of their hands, heads, hips, etc. The natural muscle that rampage has that carlos doesnt.

Guys can add a ton of muscle while others wont so it can become tricky, but you cannot just go by Height and Reach to determine somebody's "Frame".

Yes that is all pretty obvious stuff.

Im just going with what Anderson said, which was that making 185 was a bit difficult for him, and I doubt he could make 170 now. He could probably make a catchweight of lower than 185, but so could Hendo. Maybe you should read some of what you posted because Anderson being tall and having long limbs might make him look smaller, but in general hes really not, his muscle is just spread out more across his body, as opposed to being stocky like Henderson. They both seem like pretty dense-boned individuals, just look at their chins and foreheads.

and like I said above, has Hendo ever complained about cutting to 185? Only 1 time, and that was against Shields, which was after he fought Silva, which was in a large part due to a prescribed medicine he was taking. So your right, it is all speculation, but according to Silva, he has had a bit more of a problem making 185 in his career than Dan.

Kimbo> Rampage
08-03-2011, 02:59 AM
e pretty dense-boned individuals, just look at their chins and foreheads.

and like I said above, has Hendo ever complained about cutting to 185? Only 1 time, and that was against Shields, which was after he fought Silva, which was in a large part due to a prescribed medicine he was taking

Dan doesnt want to go back to 185, who could blame him at his age and point in his career. Not sure about him going way below 185. He was a master at cutting weight. He was a big MW. Anderson has an inch on him and significantly less muscle, especially now that Dan made the permanent move up as he looked bigger in his last couple of fights. I doubt Anderson would need to cut more to get to MW than him, but we can agree to disagree.

http://www.cdn.sherdog.com/thumbnail_crop/570/_images/headers/20110730093305_Untitled5.JPG

dbader08
08-03-2011, 03:32 AM
Dan doesnt want to go back to 185, who could blame him at his age and point in his career. Not sure about him going way below 185. He was a master at cutting weight. He was a big MW. Anderson has an inch on him and significantly less muscle, especially now that Dan made the permanent move up as he looked bigger in his last couple of fights. I doubt Anderson would need to cut more to get to MW than him, but we can agree to disagree.


I definitely don't think he could go far below 185. I wouldn't say that Anderson has signifigantly less muscle, especially at 205, like in his fight with Forrest. A bit, yes. I would also say that Silva is more than an inch taller than Dan, it definitely looked that way at their stare down. Anderson not having a super stocky upper body build helps with allowing him to throw very quick straight punches and kicks, though, imo. Alot of thai based fighters have that type of build.


Your right, Dan is a wrestler and a master at weight cutting, which further proves the point I'm trying to make-that Anderson would have just as much if not more to gain in a fight at 205 pounds, that and the fact that he said making 185 was a bit difficult. I think that whole idea is just something that bitter Henderson fans like to say in an attempt to garner themselves more hope, when trying to convince themselves he is the better fighter or would do better at a higher weight, leaving blame to be placed on a weight cut. Why would people even bring up Anderson fight Dan at 205, ya know? He's the UFC MW champ, and we all know Hendo's chances of beating Jones aren't that great, if Dana even decides to let him unify the belt with Jones before fighting Mousasi-who I think would beat Dan.

Either way, I'm sure it would be a hell of a fight lol