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dmc_tim
08-30-2011, 12:50 AM
2 beyond spectactular and devastating Muay-Thai fighters. who takes this and how do they win? i got Shogun by TKO because like sonnen, he would not be afraid to go after anderson and like sonnen , shogun has a rock solid chin that took everything jon jones could throw at him and he wouldnt just stand there while anderson had his arms down like okami did and get TKO'ed. i wanna see this fight so bad, but i think anderson will retire before that fight would happen.

The_Icon
08-30-2011, 01:01 AM
I'd take Anderson hands down. Shogun sure did take everything Jones had for him, and he paid for it. I don't see this fight going much different

dmc_tim
08-30-2011, 01:05 AM
anderson wont have the same reach advantage that jones did, so shogun wont have the trouble of getting to anderson like he did with bones, although the result in the fight may be the same. i just remember a lot of people saying that shogun could not beat machida and look what happened. he beat him twice and the 2nd time in devastating fashion. lets agree that Shogun has the best chance of beating anderson than anyone in the UFC at 185 or 205 besides bones jones.

0mega1
08-30-2011, 01:20 AM
anderson wont have the same reach advantage that jones did, so shogun wont have the trouble of getting to anderson like he did with bones, although the result in the fight may be the same. i just remember a lot of people saying that shogun could not beat machida and look what happened. he beat him twice and the 2nd time in devastating fashion. lets agree that Shogun has the best chance of beating anderson than anyone in the UFC at 185 or 205 besides bones jones.

I would put rashad evans in that line up as well, he has great wrestling and is super fast. I see him giving the Spider some problems as well.

Kimbo> Rampage
08-30-2011, 08:10 AM
Shogun and Anderson have the best Muay Thai in the game. Shogun has the best Muay thai in mma, besides... Anderson.

It wouldnt be an easy fight for Anderson. He wouldnt be able to drop his hands down and clown him like he has with other fighters, but he does win. He either gets the stoppage after landing enough in the 3-4th or gets the decision by outpointing him.

The best all around strikers in the UFC are.

Anderson
Shogun
Lyoto

in that order. Guys like Anderson, Penn, Rampage, and JDS have the best boxing in the UFC, but I was talking about all around striking.

Its scary to think that Anderson has the best Muay thai, and Arguably the best Boxing in mma as well.

roaddawg
08-31-2011, 09:30 AM
Shogun and Anderson have the best Muay Thai in the game. Shogun has the best Muay thai in mma, besides... Anderson.

It wouldnt be an easy fight for Anderson. He wouldnt be able to drop his hands down and clown him like he has with other fighters, but he does win. He either gets the stoppage after landing enough in the 3-4th or gets the decision by outpointing him.

The best all around strikers in the UFC are.

Anderson
Shogun
Lyoto

in that order. Guys like Anderson, Penn, Rampage, and JDS have the best boxing in the UFC, but I was talking about all around striking.

Its scary to think that Anderson has the best Muay thai, and Arguably the best Boxing in mma as well.

Silva's movement, accuracy and speed is simply better than Shogun's. Like most of Silva's fights in the UFC I doubt this one would make it to the 3rd.

initial_zen
08-31-2011, 09:51 AM
would be an amazing fight.. i have no idea who would win. I think shoguns leg kicks and aggression could give anderson some fits

YukonJordan
08-31-2011, 10:04 AM
Shogun takes this all day.

dbader08
08-31-2011, 10:14 AM
Shogun definitely has the better and more powerful kicks imo I think he could definitely win this fight. He would fight this one much like his first fight with Machida, he wouldn't just come out super aggressive like he did against Bones. He fares much better when he picks and chooses his shots like we saw against Chuck, Machida, and Forrest.

TheKidInside
08-31-2011, 03:17 PM
I still think that Shogun has amazing accuracy as well. And he really only needs one punch as has been proven over and over again. Silva messes around too much and I feel that if he did that little feeling out process then it wouldn't be a good night for Silva...but I may be biased as I'd go gay for Shogun and ONLY Shogun lol

TBEAR
08-31-2011, 03:22 PM
Anderson by KO

Kimbo> Rampage
08-31-2011, 09:54 PM
Shogun definitely has the better and more powerful kicks imo I think he could definitely win this fight. He would fight this one much like his first fight with Machida, he wouldn't just come out super aggressive like he did against Bones. He fares much better when he picks and chooses his shots like we saw against Chuck, Machida, and Forrest.

This would make for a great fight. Shogun has the best muay thai in mma, besides anderson. It should be consensus. Anderson has been known to have some excellent kicks of his own, we just havent seen too much of them in the UFC. Probably because he doesnt want to get taken down or doesnt need them to finish the fight.

Shogun has great standup, but this is anderson were talking about... He wouldnt be able to clown him, but as skilled and talented as shogun is, anderson is better in both. His hands are also superior.

Anderson wouldnt drop his hands down like he did against forrest or okami, and he couldnt get away with what he did to maia on shogun. but he comes out and gives his best and leaves no openings its going to be hard for shogun to get this one.

dmc_tim
09-01-2011, 12:20 AM
does anyone think that if Shogun was at 185 that he would be as dominant as Anderson? does anyone think that shogun and anderson will eventually fight?

CtGreat
09-01-2011, 12:33 AM
does anyone think that if Shogun was at 185 that he would be as dominant as Anderson? does anyone think that shogun and anderson will eventually fight?

No not at all, and hopefully they do fight.

Anderson is so dominant because he is so damn fast, accurate, and elusive. Shogun has (imo) always had way too sloppy punching. Even versus forrest, his punches seemed too wild. Anderson would pick his ass appart; Shogun is too slow and plodding, Silva would Matrix his attacks like Franklin & Forrest, his legkics wouldn't be very useful either i dont think. It would certainly be a fun fight though.

roaddawg
09-01-2011, 08:11 AM
anderson wont have the same reach advantage that jones did, so shogun wont have the trouble of getting to anderson like he did with bones, although the result in the fight may be the same. i just remember a lot of people saying that shogun could not beat machida and look what happened. he beat him twice and the 2nd time in devastating fashion. lets agree that Shogun has the best chance of beating anderson than anyone in the UFC at 185 or 205 besides bones jones.

Silva is way more evasive than Jon Jones not to mention his striking accuracy is on another level. This is yet another fight that wouldnt leave the 2nd round.

Kimbo> Rampage
09-01-2011, 08:54 AM
Silva is way more evasive than Jon Jones not to mention his striking accuracy is on another level. This is yet another fight that wouldnt leave the 2nd round.

I agree that with everything you said in this thread, except where Anderson puts shogun away early. Anderson would make shogun pay for every mistake but when was shogun ever really in trouble standing? Shogun has legit muay thai himself. I see this as very one sided decision or more likely a doctors stoppage in the later rounds from the accumulated damage.

Anderson knows who he can and cant clown. You would never see him drop his hands against guys like vitor, rampage, shogun, machida, hendo, etc. Okami and Forrest cannot compare to those guys... as they would get KTFO themselves by them.

dbader08
09-03-2011, 08:22 PM
No not at all, and hopefully they do fight.

Anderson is so dominant because he is so damn fast, accurate, and elusive. Shogun has (imo) always had way too sloppy punching. Even versus forrest, his punches seemed too wild. Anderson would pick his ass appart; Shogun is too slow and plodding, Silva would Matrix his attacks like Franklin & Forrest, his legkics wouldn't be very useful either i dont think. It would certainly be a fun fight though.

because he knows Forrest can't take a punch.

Look at how technical he was in the first Machida fight. I think he would utilize alot of kicks and fight really patiently and go for the takedowns/gnp versus Anderson. He would keep trading hands to a minimum. Look at all of Anderson's fights, he barely trades hands with anyone ever unless he is countering. A shogun in great shape can beat anderson imo.

Even if Silva would win, no way in hell he would drop his hands or matrix Shogun. Please don't compare Shogun's stand up to people who have no power at all in their hands or kicks, and who aren't as un-predictable or as versatile.

Kimbo> Rampage
09-04-2011, 01:13 AM
because he knows Forrest can't take a punch.

Look at how technical he was in the first Machida fight. I think he would utilize alot of kicks and fight really patiently and go for the takedowns/gnp versus Anderson. He would keep trading hands to a minimum. Look at all of Anderson's fights, he barely trades hands with anyone ever unless he is countering. A shogun in great shape can beat anderson imo.

Even if Silva would win, no way in hell he would drop his hands or matrix Shogun. Please don't compare Shogun's stand up to people who have no power at all in their hands or kicks, and who aren't as un-predictable or as versatile.

I do agree that Anderson wouldnt be able to clown him. But if it turned into a technical muay thai fight, nobody beats Anderson 205down in mma.

As good of a striker as machida is, anderson is better. Id put machida at 3rd, shogun at 2nd, and anderson at 1st for the best strikers in the UFC. Anderson is not easy to kick, we dont even see too many fighters try that on him now, but watch some of his earlier fights. Shogun having good takedowns? not sure about that, he has a very bad takedown % and not the best TDD himself. Still he does have vicious gnp when it does go there though.

I said that Anderson wins for sure, but standup wise this would be the toughest fight 205down.

Poindexter
09-04-2011, 03:38 AM
I got Silva by speed, game planning, and mental toughness.

dbader08
09-06-2011, 04:48 AM
I do agree that Anderson wouldnt be able to clown him. But if it turned into a technical muay thai fight, nobody beats Anderson 205down in mma.

As good of a striker as machida is, anderson is better. Id put machida at 3rd, shogun at 2nd, and anderson at 1st for the best strikers in the UFC. Anderson is not easy to kick, we dont even see too many fighters try that on him now, but watch some of his earlier fights. Shogun having good takedowns? not sure about that, he has a very bad takedown % and not the best TDD himself. Still he does have vicious gnp when it does go there though.

I said that Anderson wins for sure, but standup wise this would be the toughest fight 205down.

Shogun doesn't have the best takedowns but he is definitely better at taking people down than defending the takedown. Plus, he is good at pulling off that standing leg lock, though he failed at using it versus Jones, though he got him to his back once but Jones quickly reversed. Plus, Anderson would be fighting at 205, its different than defending a takedown at 185, I'd imagine, though Shogun is not a very big 205er. Shogun was able to take down Nog, Overeem, and Forrest a few times who is a better wrestler than Silva imo. Shogun also would not be afraid to fight Anderson like alot of people who fight him are.

Even if Shogun's takedown % is not that great, sometimes he is relentless with his attempts and when he gets on top he has a very good ground game and ground and pound. Do you have a statistic on his takedown %? Anderson defended the td easily against Okami but Okami looked horrible and didn't set it up at all. He never even tried to go for a single or a trip from what I remember, just stayed clinched with Anderson.

Kimbo> Rampage
09-06-2011, 06:28 AM
Anderson has never been known for having elite tdd, but Lil nog and Overeem(back in the pride days anyways) didnt have good tdd at all. Neither did forrest. He almost drags his opponents down, rather than landing a double leg, throw or sweep. He typically doesnt go for the takedown either. He will go for it when there is a struggle for position in the clinch or the scramble, but is typically not successful.

Iv been following shoguns career since the start. He is one of my all time favorites but his takedowns and wrestling is clearly the weakest part of his game, not even close.

He also has a good muay thai clinch of his own, but anderson would get the better of him there and thats not the best place to try and get anderson down.

dbader08
09-06-2011, 06:40 AM
IDK man Overeem always had decent takedown D, who took him down other than Rua in pride, Arona? Possibly Lil nog after he gassed? Even in his first fight with Werdum, Werdum never took him down he took Werdum down and got kimura'd from guard. Forrest also had decent takedown D, not great but I don't think you can say it's no good at all.

I know that Shogun's wrestling is the weakest part of his game but that is also the weakest part of Silva's game. If you can get Anderson to exchange there are openings for body locks and chances for the takedown as Hendo and Chael proved. They are much better wrestlers than Shogun yes, but still if Shogun gets both underhooks or a body lock he has a decent chance at the takedown or using his leglock to bring the fight down or take the back. I don't think you can say Anderson has better TDD than Forrest. Anderson would be harder to get ahold of, though. I think if Shogun used alot of kicks from a distance and forced Anderson to get aggressive with his hands, he could do good. I think Shoguns kicks are better and alot harder. Shogun has a very good chin, too. Alot of the people Silva fights get either impatient or lock up and don't know what to do. Shogun would be one of the most mentally strong people Anderson has faced, along with Dan Henderson.

The reach of Anderson and the quickness of his hands and his overall elusiveness could very well win him the fight though, obviously. It would be interesting to see if Anderson fighting at 205 against an actual challenging opponent would make a difference.

Kimbo> Rampage
09-06-2011, 06:55 AM
I do think anderson has better tdd than forrest. Overeem has improved his tdd a lot, but I would have to disagree about him having good tdd in pride. Anderson is faster, more allusive, and more dangerous than the guys who shogun got down. Shogun does have good kicks and muay thai to set up shots or get inside like you said, but Anderson has had the best Muay Thai in mma as far back as his pride days. Anderson knows how to deal with kicks and make you pay for them.

Too bad this fight will never happen along with Anderson vs. Machida.

dbader08
09-06-2011, 07:20 AM
I agree Anderson has sick muay thai and is a very smart fighter and his takedown D is very good but he does get taken down in most fights he's in (Lutter, Rich 2, Maruardt, Henderson, Leites, Maia, Sonnen), even though some of those TDs are very brief lol I just think Shogun is well rounded and dangerous enough and has the right mindset to possibly pull it out. Anderson's straight punches and front kicks could prove to be very detrimental to Shogun if this fight were to happen, which would not surprise me, I just think Shogun would be expecting that and fight patiently, and at least put up a good fight.

I guess there is a chance this fight could happen, but I'd guess Anderson would rather fight a non-brazilian if he were to go to 205, even though Shogun did KO Machida. Anderson-Machida would be the most exciting very slow-paced counter fight of all time. It would be like feint-feint-feint-feint-feint-feint-feint-low kick-feint-feint-feint-jab-feint-striaght kick to the knee-feint-feint...

Rise
09-06-2011, 02:31 PM
It be interesting to see Anderson fight someone who will actually throw kicks at him at least. If Shogun can get some damage in with the low kicks he could make it an interesting fight and have a shot at it.

I think Jones or Rashad are the better bets at 205 to take Silva down though.

Masscore
09-06-2011, 03:12 PM
Everyone sees this as a striking fight but I think the difference is Shogun's ground game. If he can get the fight to the ground (easier said then done) then the fight shifts dramatically in favor of Shogun.

If Shogun can not take Silva down, I think eventually Silva would KO him or outpoint him. But Shogun is not stupid and probably would realize he just on another level then Silva when it comes to BJJ. So I think after a few rounds standing Shogun puts Silva on his back and taps him with some kind of leg lock.

Kimbo> Rampage
09-07-2011, 03:33 AM
But Shogun is not stupid and probably would realize he just on another level then Silva when it comes to BJJ

I dont know about that. He is good on top and has great GNP. But saying shogun is on another level than Anderson in BJJ is speculation. I havent seen anything to prove that.

Oh wait shogun subbed Randallman...

Masscore
09-07-2011, 03:51 AM
I dont know about that. He is good on top and has great GNP. But saying shogun is on another level than Anderson in BJJ is speculation. I havent seen anything to prove that.

Oh wait shogun subbed Randallman...

Shogun is Brazilian National Champion in BJJ, so I think he would on paper have the advantage over Silva on the ground.

Kimbo> Rampage
09-07-2011, 06:47 AM
Shogun is better at reversals, getting up, top control, and in the scrambles. That is saying a lot, but would he sub Anderson? Would he even be able to get him down, or even attempt it?

If it was a pure Bjj match, you could argue for shogun. But Anderson is very aggressive off his back at times and has proven to be a threat on the ground.