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The_Icon
12-04-2011, 06:07 PM
both in there prime at 205, who wins it? Chuck vs Hendo

FCK
12-04-2011, 07:05 PM
BOth in there primes: I think it'd Liddel would take it no problem. His takedown defence, and ability to stand up after being taken down was the only area he'd be in trouble with fighting Hendo, and in his prime he was amazing at both.

Standup would be very easy, as Hendo's aggressive style mixed with Liddels counter striking and superior range would have Hendo soley focused on the takedown.

Lesnar_FTW
12-04-2011, 07:23 PM
Hendo. Don't get me wrong Liddell was a great and entertaining fighter but I think he had trouble dealing with fighters that had serious KO power in their hands as well. His biggest wins were against Tito and Randy who didn't have big KO power. When he went against Rampage even in his prime he got finished.

dbader08
12-04-2011, 07:36 PM
Chuck used to be able to take a hell of a shot in his prime, I watched his fight vs Pele and he got hit with a sick head kick and recovered. Its tough to say who would win...

m1ckeykn0x
12-05-2011, 11:16 PM
You spelled Liddell wrong. :laser:

*Liddell goggles*

Liddell wins, period.

Iceman forever, ftw!

Punk Ass
12-06-2011, 12:21 AM
Whoever picked Liddell is crazy. During his reign, he didnt fight any really good strikers except for Overeem, and he wasnt shit at the time. Hendo would have killed him just like rampage did.

dbader08
12-06-2011, 04:26 AM
I guess you've never heard of Pele...and I guess you've never seen chuck take a punch pre-Rampage...and Overeem was definitely good when he fought him. Overeem's main weakness was his cardio and takedown D...Chuck fucked him up early. I guess you have also never heard of Guy Mezger...then there's that Wanderlei Silva guy...

Lesnar_FTW
12-06-2011, 07:37 AM
I agree completely with Harlem. Rampage finished him in 03 and 07. No one has ever been able to finish Hendo via strikes and Liddell has been finished by strikes numerous times. Not to mention Hendo has faced more dangerous strikers throughout his career. For Overeem, I'm not sure if I'm still sold on him even as a HW. He beat Wandy and I'm not saying he couldn't defeat great strikers, but his resume certainly suggests that it was his weakness and had lower success against them than Hendo did.

CtGreat
12-06-2011, 07:56 AM
I guess you've never heard of Pele...and I guess you've never seen chuck take a punch pre-Rampage...and Overeem was definitely good when he fought him. Overeem's main weakness was his cardio and takedown D...Chuck fucked him up early. I guess you have also never heard of Guy Mezger...then there's that Wanderlei Silva guy...

He didnt fight Wandy in his prime though, and Overeem was good then but not great.

Punk Ass
12-06-2011, 01:33 PM
I guess you've never heard of Pele...and I guess you've never seen chuck take a punch pre-Rampage...and Overeem was definitely good when he fought him. Overeem's main weakness was his cardio and takedown D...Chuck fucked him up early. I guess you have also never heard of Guy Mezger...then there's that Wanderlei Silva guy...Dude, a 41 year old Hendo nearly knocked a prime Shogun's head clean off, Killed a Prime Wandy, destroyed Fedor, and has Beaten Big Nog before in Nog's prime. Chuck was great, but objectively, I think you know hendo has a much better resume and is alot more accomplished.

Pele, Mezger, and a pre HW Overeem? C'mon son! These dudes were all just gate keepers at best. Not to mention MMA wasnt anywhere near as evolved as it is now when Chuck fought the guys you named.

rivethead
12-06-2011, 04:01 PM
If they're both healthy and in their primes, I'd go with Henderson. Much of the supposition will be based on MMA math, but that's the way it goes with dream fights that span several time periods.

Henderson's most inconsistent fights where at MW, where he was cutting weight and it was effecting his cardio. He wouldn't have the concern at 205.

Chuck, for all his KO-power-from-all-four-limbs was still vulnerable at his peak, as illustrated in the first rampage fight [before Chuck's obvious decline]. Using rampage as the common opponent, you can get some idea that sways an arguement. It's MMA math, so it doesn't prove anything, but I think it brings perspective.

Very simply, I do not have rampage anywhere close to Henderson's level. At jackson's absolute best, rampage won a controversial decision over Dan, and had several factors in his favor with the fight: It was Henderson's first fight back under full unified rules and UFC pacing, as well as in the cage, rather than the ring; while rampage had a tune up fight and the [second] win against Liddell to acclimatize himself to UFC standards. Henderson's wife was nearly 10 months pregnant when the fight occurred, and was home on another contintent. Mentally, that's going to take a toll. Finally, he was having the same issues with his back that have plagued him for much of his career.

That's the MMA math side of things: rampage at his peak handily beat Chuck at his peak, but couldn't do much more with a clearly-less-than peak Henderson than eke out a controversial decision.

In terms of skill, I think they're pretty similar. A natural LHW, Chuck is much bigger, with a huge reach advantage, and gets the nod there. I have Chuck's overall striking rated superior to Dan in it's variety, but not necessarily in power. I have Dan's chin rated better than Chucks, throughout their careers. I have Dan's grappling superior to Chucks; in both groundgame and clinch, but give the edge to Liddell in submission defense, although I'm pretty confident that any action going on at the mat would be GnP rather submission grappling.

It would have been a great fight, but I just feel Dan has more edges where it counts, and would have ended up landing that big ohr that would have heralded the decline of Chuck much earlier than it would have occurred naturally.

rh

KevoOnTheRadio
12-06-2011, 04:05 PM
Whoever picked Liddell is crazy. During his reign, he didnt fight any really good strikers except for Overeem, and he wasnt shit at the time. Hendo would have killed him just like rampage did.

I wouldn't consider Hendo an elite striker. He's got power for days in both hands, but he's not as technical as Liddell.

MIZjitsZOU
12-06-2011, 04:12 PM
BOth in there primes: I think it'd Liddel would take it no problem. His takedown defence, and ability to stand up after being taken down was the only area he'd be in trouble with fighting Hendo, and in his prime he was amazing at both.

Standup would be very easy, as Hendo's aggressive style mixed with Liddels counter striking and superior range would have Hendo soley focused on the takedown.

No problem?????????????????????????? The Iceman could whip my ass no problem. Hendo, now that would be a different story. No problem. :laughing4:

FCK
12-06-2011, 04:58 PM
Well we ARE talking about a hypothetical situation here, so don't count yourself out so easiy? Chin up! lol

Punk Ass
12-06-2011, 05:41 PM
I wouldn't consider Hendo an elite striker. He's got power for days in both hands, but he's not as technical as Liddell.Well no. He's not as technical as Liddell, but he's an elite striker though. Some of the best boxers in the world were not very technical. George Forman, Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano to name a few. They are sluggers, but what gets them over is(like Hendo) they move their head just enough to avoid big shots for the most part, and are masters of their one dimensional style. With Hendo, you know that right hand is coming, but very few people can stop it regardless. Shogun is a much more diverse striker, but Hendo has better headmovement and accuracy with that right hand. That's what makes him elite IMO. Liddell, has more diverse striking, more technical,(if you can call it that, because he even said he couldnt be a boxer due to his unconventional style) good footwork, but I think I have better head movement than he does.

KevoOnTheRadio
12-06-2011, 05:49 PM
Well no. He's not as technical as Liddell, but he's an elite striker though. Some of the best boxers in the world were not very technical. George Forman, Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano to name a few. They are sluggers, but what gets them over is(like Hendo) they move their head just enough to avoid big shots for the most part, and are masters of their one dimensional style. With Hendo, you know that right hand is coming, but very few people can stop it regardless. Shogun is a much more diverse striker, but Hendo has better headmovement and accuracy with that right hand. That's what makes him elite IMO. Liddell, has more diverse striking, more technical,(if you can call it that, because he even said he couldnt be a boxer due to his unconventional style) good footwork, but I think I have better head movement than he does.

Fair enough. I don't know who I would have in that fight. Another factor, is even in his prime I can see Hendo putting Chuck to sleep, but can't imagine the opposite happening.

rivethead
12-06-2011, 06:40 PM
Fair enough. I don't know who I would have in that fight. Another factor, is even in his prime I can see Hendo putting Chuck to sleep, but can't imagine the opposite happening.

That's a simpler way of saying what I think I said.

I also wouldn't say Chuck was incredibly technical as well. His kenpo stance was great for counters, but they weren't textbook. Part of what made them work is that they were so unorthodox.

rh

Sakara=Excitement
12-06-2011, 06:45 PM
Chuck's chin in his prime was much better than Dan's. Dan has been dropped him damn near every fight he's been in. People just want an excuse to shit on Chuck and not give him any credit.

And Riv, you give Hendo the excuse of being in a cage versus a ring but Chuck doesn't get that excuse when fighting Rampage?

KevoOnTheRadio
12-06-2011, 06:51 PM
That's a simpler way of saying what I think I said.

I also wouldn't say Chuck was incredibly technical as well. His kenpo stance was great for counters, but they weren't textbook. Part of what made them work is that they were so unorthodox.

rh

Well, simple is what I do best haha

And I wouldn't call Chuck technical either, but perhaps more technical then Hendo. Admittedly, I'm sure you guys have more knowledge about striking technique then myself.

goodtimes
12-06-2011, 11:59 PM
Chuck's chin in his prime was much better than Dan's. Dan has been dropped him damn near every fight he's been in. People just want an excuse to shit on Chuck and not give him any credit.

And Riv, you give Hendo the excuse of being in a cage versus a ring but Chuck doesn't get that excuse when fighting Rampage?

Chuck never fought the guys with the same kind of power Hendo fought, so I think Hendo's chin has proven stronger. Hendo has eaten big punches from Rampage, Fedor, Shogun, Wanderlei, Anderon Silva, pretty much all of the best KO artists of the sport and he's never been put away by strikes or come close to being KO'ed. The same can't be said for Chuck, and in Chuck's prime he was a grappler killer.

Y2JUBAE
08-16-2012, 08:50 PM
Chuck was only great because he didn't fight people like Hendo. that and his eye poke maneuver.

Hendo would have wrecked him then, now, anytime.