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View Full Version : Jon Jones v. Chuck Liddell (2006)



Masscore
04-27-2012, 09:25 AM
With Liddell coming out saying he would only come back to fight for the title it got me thinking... who would win between these two if they fought when Liddell was in his prime.

Personally I think Liddell is the worse possible match-up for a guy like Jones. An extremely heavy handed striker, with insane takedown defense and a great chin.

In the end I think Jones would win 6 out of 10 times. He would be able to use his reach and size to keep Liddell on the outside and score points to win a decision. But those 4 times Liddell would win it would be in violent fashion.

(Mods, feel free to add a poll lol)

CRisCO
04-27-2012, 09:42 AM
I agree with you completely.

If Jones beat chuck it would be by decision chuck would have put him to sleep when he won.

CtGreat
04-27-2012, 09:53 AM
Picked appart all day by Jones and possibly even submitted. Jones has taken everybody down at some point in his fights, chuck would be no different.

Kimbo> Rampage
04-27-2012, 10:02 AM
completely disagree.

Chuck's TDD was very much like BJ Penn's imo. Very very good, but not facing enough elite wrestlers.

I would make a case that Machida, Rampage, and Evans... atleast when Jones faced them have = if not better TDD than Chuck.

Stopping Couture, Tito, Horn, and Bablu from taking you down was good at the time. But Chuck was taken down by rampage in thier first fight and would have a very hard time stopping a takedown from someone like Evans, Bader, Davis, etc... let alone Jones.

Wasnt Liddell's striking also Exposed? He beat up on guys that were ground fighters that had very poor standup with no real power or speed. Minus vitor at the time, who he approached differently and is now a MW.

Look at Jones's last 4 opponents. Rampage beat him twice, Rashad and Shogun Ko'd liddell. We can say that Rampage destroyed Chuck's chin and he was never the same, but what's to say that if Rashad or Shogun fought him instead, they wouldnt have done the same. Hendo could have also beaten Chuck at the time.

I am also still very pissed that the UFC never made Liddell vs. Machida when Liddell was Champ. He would have lost that as well.

Liddell had good standup with good power... but so did Machida, Rampage, and Shogun. Liddell had great TDD, but Jones' wrestling is GSP like. He will get you down no matter how good your TDD is.

I love how people constantly criticize Rampage's standup, but praise Liddell's. When Rampage outstruck Chuck in both fights... Are you telling me that Rampage wouldnt have Ko'd Tito, Horn, and Couture as well?

Masscore
04-27-2012, 10:10 AM
Picked appart all day by Jones and possibly even submitted. Jones has taken everybody down at some point in his fights, chuck would be no different.

You are ignoring a few things here.

1. Liddell's takedown defense was the stuff of legends. Jones had a hard time taking down Rampage and I believe Liddell's takedown defense in his Prime was better than Rampage's current takedown defense.

2. Liddell also had the ability to get right back to his feet when he was takendown. I believe he still holds the record in the UFC for least amount of time spent on his back. Which is pretty crazy when you consider the grapplers he fought; Randleman, Ortiz, Sobral, Couture and Evans to name a few.

I think Jones would win most of the time. But Liddell is just a terrible match-up for him.

Kimbo> Rampage
04-27-2012, 10:18 AM
You are ignoring a few things here.

1. Liddell's takedown defense was the stuff of legends. Jones had a hard time taking down Rampage and I believe Liddell's takedown defense in his Prime was better than Rampage's current takedown defense.

2. Liddell also had the ability to get right back to his feet when he was takendown. I believe he still holds the record in the UFC for least amount of time spent on his back. Which is pretty crazy when you consider the grapplers he fought; Randleman, Ortiz, Sobral, Couture and Evans to name a few.

I think Jones would win most of the time. But Liddell is just a terrible match-up for him.

Yes, liddells tdd was great, but he didnt fight the better wrestlers of today in mma, you of all people should know that. You just listed his opponents... Rampage took chuck down in their first fight. You dont think he could stop tito, randleman(he did), or bablu's takedowns?

He had a knee injury against Bader, and Bader is a very high level wrestler to begin with.

Couture did get chuck down in their first fight and got shutdown when trying to come in with sloppy hand work in the next fights.

Evans didnt even go for the takedown and put Liddell on his back with an overhand. He didnt have the shot, follow through, and set up in his wrestling back then either. Look at his fight with Davis.

back in the day guys like matt hughes and BJ Penn, we didnt expect to see those guys spend a lot of time on there back. In came the ultra talented GSP. Jones would be able to take liddell down, or outstrike him standing.

dbader08
04-27-2012, 01:26 PM
Chuck does not have a great chin anymore, and imo he has slowed down a bit. Chuck in his prime would have a good shot, but not the Chuck of now.

OHH I Just saw the 2006 part. I'd say chuck would have a pretty decent chance, but you have to remember Jones is just the type of fighter who likes to turn around and start sprinting the other way when he gets hurt- in what is a very large octagon. Perhaps if it were in a smaller ring where you couldn't just start running away from your opponent I would pick Chuck.

Sakara=Excitement
04-27-2012, 01:50 PM
Chuck and very easily.

His TDD is stuff of legend and he had an iron chin and just stupid KO power in both hands. I don't even think it would be close honestly.

I think the sad thing is more and more people want to somehow look over or discredit Chuck as a fighter. Sad really.

dbader08
04-27-2012, 02:02 PM
Chuck and very easily.

His TDD is stuff of legend and he had an iron chin and just stupid KO power in both hands. I don't even think it would be close honestly.

I think the sad thing is more and more people want to somehow look over or discredit Chuck as a fighter. Sad really.

Sorry man but I don't see how you can say any LHW In the history of mma would beat Jones "very easily"...and Chuck's takedown d wasn't looking so legendary when Rampage was easily taking him down when they fought. You really think Jones wouldn't be able to do that when Couture and Rampage were able to? Plus theres that whole 85 inch reach thing with a huge octagon that he could circle around in all day long, throwing different types of kicks, plus jabs to keep chuck at bay...and it's not like Chuck's footwork is that quick which is something you really need to have when going against someone with such a long reach.

m1ckeykn0x
04-27-2012, 02:31 PM
I was thinking of this yesterday.

Chuck is his prime VS Jones would be incredible. Chuck is the type of fighter that could give Jones trouble. He had excellent timing, KO power in both fists, great wrestling and superb takedown defense. His chin was steel and he fought only with a desire to kill or be killed. I think he had the aggression that it would take to cut Jon off in the cage. I can't call the fight though. Bones is a freak.

Ramma
04-27-2012, 03:00 PM
Picked appart all day by Jones and possibly even submitted. Jones has taken everybody down at some point in his fights, chuck would be no different.

Chuck had some of the best TDD and ability to get right back up that we've ever seen. Jones would do no such thing.

Kimbo> Rampage
04-27-2012, 06:48 PM
Im not even a Jones fan, but this hard to imagine.

Liddell would stop JJ takedowns because he stopped tito's, horn, etc takedowns. Like there is any coloration to what Jones has to offer.

And Liddell is a better striker than Jones because KO lesser guys. Liddell may have had more power and aggression, but you cant expect Jones to KO guys like Shogun, Rampage, Evans, and Machida. Imagine what they would have done to chuck. Those guys have no comparison to the guys Chuck has fought.

Look at how Jones performed against Shogun, Rampage, and Evans... and compare that to how liddell performed against them.

Chuck was definitely at his best for the 2nd rampage fight. He was on his winning streak, facing someone who had already beat him. Its not the fact his chin degraded. Look at the shots Shogun, Rashad, and Rampage landed on him. All big power punches, with the intention to get the Ko. It was a technical error, not just his chin.

People have liddell on such a high level in their minds, but comparing him to the fighters of now, let alone Jones is silly. I would bet good money that prime liddell would lose to all of Jones' past 4 opponents.

Im not trying to bag on Liddell but you have to be realistic. I did the same thing when people were saying how prime liddell was a better striker than Anderson and that he would beat him...

Im also a huge wand fan, but realize how he would perform against the best now, even in his prime.

This kind of reminds me of how people were acting like a prime royce gracie would submit top guys left and right if he was in the UFC at that time... when he was fighting hughes...

The Return Of......
04-27-2012, 06:53 PM
Im not even a Jones fan, but this hard to imagine.

Liddell would stop JJ takedowns because he stopped tito's, horn, etc takedowns. Like there is any coloration to what Jones has to offer.

And Liddell is a better striker than Jones because KO lesser guys. Liddell may have had more power and aggression, but you cant expect Jones to KO guys like Shogun, Rampage, Evans, and Machida. Imagine what they would have done to chuck. Those guys have no comparison to the guys Chuck has fought.

Look at how Jones performed against Shogun, Rampage, and Evans... and compare that to how liddell performed against them.

Chuck was definitely at his best for the 2nd rampage fight. He was on his winning streak, facing someone who had already beat him. Its not the fact his chin degraded. Look at the shots Shogun, Rashad, and Rampage landed on him. All big power punches, with the intention to get the Ko. It was a technical error, not just his chin.

People have liddell on such a high level in their minds, but comparing him to the fighters of now, let alone Jones is silly. I would bet good money that prime liddell would lose to all of Jones' past 4 opponents.

Im not trying to bag on Liddell but you have to be realistic. I did the same thing when people were saying how prime liddell was a better striker than Anderson and that he would beat him...

Im also a huge wand fan, but realize how he would perform against the best now, even in his prime.

This kind of reminds me of how people were acting like a prime royce gracie would submit top guys left and right if he was in the UFC at that time... when he was fighting hughes...

the first rampage fight was a closer fight than people remember. chuck gassed out. the second fight, chucks chin was already gone, the evans and shogun fights chuck was just a shell of his former self

roaddawg
04-27-2012, 06:56 PM
completely disagree.

Chuck's TDD was very much like BJ Penn's imo. Very very good, but not facing enough elite wrestlers.

I would make a case that Machida, Rampage, and Evans... atleast when Jones faced them have = if not better TDD than Chuck.

Stopping Couture, Tito, Horn, and Bablu from taking you down was good at the time. But Chuck was taken down by rampage in thier first fight and would have a very hard time stopping a takedown from someone like Evans, Bader, Davis, etc... let alone Jones.

Wasnt Liddell's striking also Exposed? He beat up on guys that were ground fighters that had very poor standup with no real power or speed. Minus vitor at the time, who he approached differently and is now a MW.

Look at Jones's last 4 opponents. Rampage beat him twice, Rashad and Shogun Ko'd liddell. We can say that Rampage destroyed Chuck's chin and he was never the same, but what's to say that if Rashad or Shogun fought him instead, they wouldnt have done the same. Hendo could have also beaten Chuck at the time.

I am also still very pissed that the UFC never made Liddell vs. Machida when Liddell was Champ. He would have lost that as well.

Liddell had good standup with good power... but so did Machida, Rampage, and Shogun. Liddell had great TDD, but Jones' wrestling is GSP like. He will get you down no matter how good your TDD is.

I love how people constantly criticize Rampage's standup, but praise Liddell's. When Rampage outstruck Chuck in both fights... Are you telling me that Rampage wouldnt have Ko'd Tito, Horn, and Couture as well?

Agreed on all accounts except Tito. Is head is too big.

Kimbo> Rampage
04-27-2012, 06:59 PM
the first rampage fight was a closer fight than people remember. chuck gassed out. the second fight, chucks chin was already gone, the evans and shogun fights chuck was just a shell of his former self

Chuck's chin was already gone? He was on his long win streak. Most people believe the rampage fight broke his chin....

Like I said, it was the punch they landed. They didnt end him with some baby hook or a quick right hand. They were huge shots, meant to get the ko. Not sure if you insert them against chuck with a better chin that it makes a difference.

I always wanted to see prime wand vs. prime chuck... but prime shogun vs. prime chuck is a lot easier to predict. Shogun is just simply a superior striker. Jones was able to deal with him...

Not using it as MMA math, but guys like Shogun and Rampage really put chuck on the defensive in their fights.

TBEAR
04-30-2012, 04:15 PM
Chuck all day

rivethead
05-01-2012, 03:18 PM
Chuck all day

Step One: Chuck pokes Jones's eye
Step Two: Chuck knocks him out
Step Three: Chuck's victory interview needs subtitles

rh

lwbrewer
05-01-2012, 03:36 PM
Chuck in his prime wins every time Jones would of been what 12yr old than. I couldn't resist. Truthfully I'd have to give it to Jones mainly baseing it from the first Rampage fight were chuck lost at pride.

TBEAR
05-01-2012, 04:06 PM
Step One: Chuck pokes Jones's eye
Step Two: Chuck knocks him out
Step Three: Chuck's victory interview needs subtitles

rh

I mean with the fans we have now days.....a win is a win, so I would take it LOLZ

Really, I am waiting on the dude that comes on here and something to the effect of..."what do mean, pride had good fights?"..."Pride never did anything for cage fighting"...

Most are getting dumber as the casual fan keeps getting the marketing directed at them.

The_Icon
05-01-2012, 05:40 PM
I hate Jon Jones, I love Chuck Liddell...that being said I think Chuck MIGHT win 2 out of 10 and that would be by pure luck of landing a heavy overhand right when Jones throws a spinning (pick whatever you choose here). I think Jones reach would be to much for the Iceman to handle. Sadly we will never see this fight and have to settle on the next best thing with Hendo vs Jones. I really want Dan to pull it off but I honestly give him the same chances I just gave Liddell.

Sakara=Excitement
05-01-2012, 06:36 PM
Im not even a Jones fan, but this hard to imagine.

Liddell would stop JJ takedowns because he stopped tito's, horn, etc takedowns. Like there is any coloration to what Jones has to offer.

And Liddell is a better striker than Jones because KO lesser guys. Liddell may have had more power and aggression, but you cant expect Jones to KO guys like Shogun, Rampage, Evans, and Machida. Imagine what they would have done to chuck. Those guys have no comparison to the guys Chuck has fought.

Look at how Jones performed against Shogun, Rampage, and Evans... and compare that to how liddell performed against them.

Chuck was definitely at his best for the 2nd rampage fight. He was on his winning streak, facing someone who had already beat him. Its not the fact his chin degraded. Look at the shots Shogun, Rashad, and Rampage landed on him. All big power punches, with the intention to get the Ko. It was a technical error, not just his chin.

People have liddell on such a high level in their minds, but comparing him to the fighters of now, let alone Jones is silly. I would bet good money that prime liddell would lose to all of Jones' past 4 opponents.

Im not trying to bag on Liddell but you have to be realistic. I did the same thing when people were saying how prime liddell was a better striker than Anderson and that he would beat him...

Im also a huge wand fan, but realize how he would perform against the best now, even in his prime.

This kind of reminds me of how people were acting like a prime royce gracie would submit top guys left and right if he was in the UFC at that time... when he was fighting hughes...

And all you do time in and time out is try and shit on Chuck every chance you get.

Esox Express
05-01-2012, 10:55 PM
Chuck was a great champion, no doubt about that. But throughout his whole career people always billed him as such a deadly striker - but I can't think of a single fight where he truly knocked someone out cold with one punch. He got a flash KO against Babalu with a headkick, but other than that I'm pretty sure all of his "KO" wins were via several consecutive punches rather than a single blow. Not to say he wasn't a good striker - obviously he was a great striker - I just think his true power was a little oversold.

In this match I think Jones takes it. He wouldn't need to take it to the ground - He could stay outside working his jab, odd angles, and unorthodox kicks and Chuck would never be able to find him. Chuck did best against guys who got in close and tried to rough him around. His ability to counter so effectively is what made him such a tough opponent for anyone, and I don't think Jones would ever be in Chuck's range long enough for him to develop any effective counter attack.

Kimbo> Rampage
05-02-2012, 12:13 PM
And all you do time in and time out is try and shit on Chuck every chance you get.

No just being realistic. Chuck was a great fighter, but he would lose to all of the top guys now. Same with wand.

Masscore
05-02-2012, 12:23 PM
No just being realistic. Chuck was a great fighter, but he would lose to all of the top guys now. Same with wand.

How can you say that? A prime Liddell would be a handful for any of the top fighters. I bet you the Liddell from 2005/2006 would beat Bader, Evans, Davis, Thiago Silva, Lil'Nog and Griffin of today. Plus he would be a handful for Machida, Shogun, Jones, Goose and Hendo.

Wand is a completely different story and to be honest the Wandy that went on that 18-0-1 run would a terror for any LHW of today. If you missed out on his Pride days you missed out on a guy that was the definition of pure aggression and violence. I did not say Prime Wandy v. Jones because a Prime Wandy hangs Jones on the side of the cage.

Kimbo> Rampage
05-02-2012, 12:37 PM
How can you say that? A prime Liddell would be a handful for any of the top fighters. I bet you the Liddell from 2005/2006 would beat Bader, Evans, Davis, Thiago Silva, Lil'Nog and Griffin of today. Plus he would be a handful for Machida, Shogun, Jones, Goose and Hendo.

Wand is a completely different story and to be honest the Wandy that went on that 18-0-1 run would a terror for any LHW of today. If you missed out on his Pride days you missed out on a guy that was the definition of pure aggression and violence. I did not say Prime Wandy v. Jones because a Prime Wandy hangs Jones on the side of the cage.

yes i must have missed that...:dry:
huge wand fan. got me into mma.

Even with liddell's great TDD, guys like Bader, Davis, and Mo are phenomenal wrestlers...

I say lil nog outboxes liddell, but it could be a toss up either way. Id take liddell over T. Silva and Griffen. Id probably take him over Goose as well, but the book is still open on Alex, he is still young, so we dont know.

Hendo is a horrible matchup for liddell, he is a much better version of Randay. Faster, Better standup, Better chin, huge power. Id take Hendo over Liddell then, now, and before. He would always have liddells number.

Shogun is a better striker all around than Chuck, and chuck would try and stand with him.

Machida would pick Chuck apart, now or even when Chuck was back in his prime.(Machida was still a beast then. I was hoping they would fight, but Rampage took him out first.)

Id definetly take Evans now over Liddell. Rashad is very chinny at times, so yes liddell could knock him out. But Rashad could win standing by outpointing him, getting the ko, or taking him down.

Not a huge Jones fan, but the guy is special. He beats liddell however he wants. Sure he might not Ko liddell, but he has shown the ability to hang with better strikers than Liddell was. Also I have no doubts that he could get liddell down. Back then could we have imagined guys like Bj and Hughes to be put on their back time after time.... GSP was able to, Jones would do that to liddell if he wanted to.

Y2JUBAE
07-09-2012, 02:44 PM
Chuck would be destroyed. His legendary takedown defense was against people that werent legendary wrestlers. Rampage and Coture took him right down.

Chuck also wasn't the most elite striker as Rampage showed us.

Chuck didn't fight the best in the world when he was in his prime, he fought some greats but nothing like what the UFC has now.

He also seemed to eye poke a good bit. Seems like he would poke someone in the eye and then when he saw them holding it, he would unleash that wild fury.

Chuck was great but not the greatest by far, not even the greatest of his time.

The Donosaur
07-09-2012, 02:47 PM
Make it happen Joe!...and doc brown!

_DCdoctr_
07-09-2012, 02:53 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sZywE0AT1qY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:grinsmile1:



BP

Y2JUBAE
08-16-2012, 02:40 PM
Depends on if Chuck could land that "pre-finishing" eye poke.

Cat--Smasher
08-16-2012, 02:41 PM
http://www.titocouture.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/A0Y_4Z6CEAA85io.jpg-large-500x666.jpg
Current picture of Chuck and a fan.