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View Full Version : Questions to Clint, Adonis, or whoever can answer



Rufio
05-12-2007, 07:40 PM
I asked this at the bodybuilding forum that IDeuceMacmanus linked on here before, but got no replies.



I know that a caloric decifit is needed to burn fat and a surplus is needed to build muscle. What I've been doing recently is alternating cardio days with lifting days for efficiency. I know that protein synthesis takes 36 hours, reaching its peak after 24.


if I do cardio the day after lifting, will the caloric deficit mess with my gains from the previous day, even if I ate a ton of calories, protein, and carbs on that day?



I've never heard any research about this. I know all about the evils of doing cardio RIGHT after lifting, but what I haven't heard about is cardio the day AFTER lifts. Is a certain degree of protein synthesis from all the foods your body processed over the night "locked in" or can doing cardio roughly 24 hours later just throw off your gains?

Clint
05-12-2007, 08:54 PM
I've nerver seen actual research on this before but I would say that you should be fine based on the fact that the majority of athletes train in that way anyways.

The 3 possible results I see from this are:
-You retain your current muscle mass because of the lifting (and gain strength) while leaning out and losing bodyfat.

- You gain muscle mass while not gaining any bodyfat

- You lose some bodyfat while gaining some muscle

None of those possibilities look bad to me.

Rufio
05-12-2007, 09:17 PM
Alright, thanks for the input.


I mainly ask because right now I'm training for big decifits and fast results. It's pretty much working as far as definition goes. A few months ago I looked about like Gabe Reudiger. A few weeks ago I finally started seeing a full six pack and now it's getting more defined. I used to have some sausage tits and lack of lower chest defintion, but now I've got the lower chest creases and all. I'm just concerned with losing muscle.


To get fast fat loss results and SOME muscle gains, I've been eating like 3000 calories, 400-500 carbs, and 250-300 grams of protein on lifting days, while on cardio days it's more like 2000 calories, 130-150 carbs, and 180-200 grams of protein.


I just want to make absolutely sure that this does equate to SOME gains to balance out whatever I lose on the cardio days. So far I seem to be gaining, but it's hard to tell how much is muscle gain and how much is just added definition. Strength-wise, my bench is static, but my shoulder, chest, and lat excercises are improving.

I just want to be very cautious about this so I don't come out looking like an Ethiopian.

Clint
05-12-2007, 09:34 PM
On your cardio days look into doing circuits and HIIT. Both of these (especially HIIT) are known for promoting fat loss with less potential for muscle loss.

Also it sounds like you should add some squats and deadlifts to your workout routine. These exercises are great for building all over muscle gains.

Rufio
05-13-2007, 03:15 AM
I do squats. Deadlifts are really painful for my palms and cause calluses, so I don't do them as much.


Anyway, I tend to do 45 minutes of HIIT then an additional 45 of steady rate cardio for fat loss specifically. The fact that I tend to do an hour and thirty minutes of cardio at a time is part of the reason I'm so concerned about this. I'll have to look up "circuit" cardio.

SimpleJack
05-13-2007, 06:15 PM
What do you weigh?

Also, I would cut the carbs in half unless you feel pooped. That will promote lean muscle gains and rip you up. However, if you are unable to perform at your normal level, leave them alone.

EDIT: I meant on the lifting days. The cardio days look pretty good.

Rufio
05-13-2007, 06:33 PM
I weigh about 175 right now, and I'm 6'1. A month or so ago I was 185, and I seem to float between 173 and 180 depending on water weight (I swear, I was 173 before I went to bed one night and woke up weighing 180.)


Actually, my bench performance sucks right now, not so much due to strength as energy. The bar doesn't feel any heavier than it did 6 months ago, but I can't do as many reps. I've been using thermogenic fat loss supplements which I've heard can burn you out, so that may be part of it.


As for cutting the carbs, I was under the impression that you needed about 2 carbs for each gram of protein for real gains.

SimpleJack
05-13-2007, 06:58 PM
I have always used 1.5/lb of body weight. That would be around half of what you take in currently. That's why I said it that way. You can do what works best for you. I like the KISS diet. (Keep it Simple Stupid) That usually means 3 days on diet, 1 day off, and no complex carbs after the 3rd meal of the day.

Clint
05-13-2007, 10:18 PM
I do squats. Deadlifts are really painful for my palms and cause calluses, so I don't do them as much.


Anyway, I tend to do 45 minutes of HIIT then an additional 45 of steady rate cardio for fat loss specifically. The fact that I tend to do an hour and thirty minutes of cardio at a time is part of the reason I'm so concerned about this. I'll have to look up "circuit" cardio.
Honestly I think you might not be going full intensity on the HIIT, unless you have really solid cardio/recovery because after 45 minutes of HIIT you should be exhausted. For it you should be running like you just got caught fucking the police chiefs daughter or running like your chasing the guy that stole your car stereo.


I weigh about 175 right now, and I'm 6'1. A month or so ago I was 185, and I seem to float between 173 and 180 depending on water weight (I swear, I was 173 before I went to bed one night and woke up weighing 180.)


Actually, my bench performance sucks right now, not so much due to strength as energy. The bar doesn't feel any heavier than it did 6 months ago, but I can't do as many reps. I've been using thermogenic fat loss supplements which I've heard can burn you out, so that may be part of it.


As for cutting the carbs, I was under the impression that you needed about 2 carbs for each gram of protein for real gains.
The 2:1 is only for your post workout carbs. The rest of the time your carbs are best suited to come from Veggies, Fruits, Whole grains in that order or preference.

Clint
05-13-2007, 10:27 PM
Also by circuits I mean something like this:


Perform 5 circuits of the following:

* 5 Dumbbell Snatches Per Arm
* 5 Dumbbell Swings Per Arm
* 10 Burpees
* Rest 60 seconds and repeat




No Excuses Workout

First Round

* Burpees x 60 seconds
* Pull-ups x 60 seconds
* Squats x 60 seconds
* Pushups x 60 seconds

Second Round

* Burpees x 45 seconds
* Pull-ups x 45 seconds
* Squats x 45 seconds
* Pushups x 45 seconds

Third Round

* Burpees x 30 seconds
* Pull-ups x 30 seconds
* Squats x 30 seconds
* Pushups x 30 seconds

Fourth Round

* Burpees x 15 seconds
* Pull-ups x 15 seconds
* Squats x 15 seconds
* Pushups x 15 seconds

Rufio
05-15-2007, 01:28 AM
Eh, I was doing intervals of fast jogging and slow jogging or fast walking basically. I don't like outright running because I has asthma when I was younger and I get a certain pain in my lungs from running. I can do it, but I just prefer not to. The closest I do to running is fast incline jogging (there's this big ass hill near my house).


Really, I'm getting pretty good results right now as far as fat loss and stamina go. I just wanted to make sure I don't need to wait an extra day in between lifting and cardio to prevent muscle loss or something like that.

Clint
05-15-2007, 01:32 AM
That's reasonable. What I would do in that case is very slowly increase the speed that you jog at over time.

Otherwise things look good. No need to wait an extra day between things.

Bullock
05-16-2007, 02:57 AM
Who is this Adonis guy?

I have never seen him.

adonis
05-16-2007, 03:02 PM
Eh, I was doing intervals of fast jogging and slow jogging or fast walking basically. I don't like outright running because I has asthma when I was younger and I get a certain pain in my lungs from running. I can do it, but I just prefer not to. The closest I do to running is fast incline jogging (there's this big ass hill near my house).


Really, I'm getting pretty good results right now as far as fat loss and stamina go. I just wanted to make sure I don't need to wait an extra day in between lifting and cardio to prevent muscle loss or something like that.

A couple things;

HIIT workouts are much shorter than 45 minutes. Generally we keep them below 15-20 minutes to allow for higher work intensities. For example, I alternate my clients through a few different variations of HIIT workouts.

1: I like to alternate 60 second run / 60 second total recovery / 5-10 sets
With this option, you will need to leave the treadmill running, and just jump off to the side bars. I also use an incline with this protocol equivalent to my clients level.

If I have a high performance athlete, I may give them up to a 15% incline, as such the speed may be a slower. Where as Grandma, get a 1.0-1.5% incline.

We progress by decreasing the rest period to 30's (5second intervals) over a couple weeks, then we increase the speed 0.2-0.5mph

2: The other hiit workout I use a lot is to alternate a 40 second sprint with a 20 sec jog. I find this version much easier as the speeds a lower. Again use the incline to bring the intensity up.


If mass gain is your goal, I would try and include 1 (maybe 2) short HIIT type workouts and 1 longer "steady state" workout of up to 35 minutes at a jogging pace, or fast walk on a high incline.

The steady state workout is less taxing on recovery ability, and may in fact promote an accelerated recovery by increasing blood flow to the extremities.


Training split

d1- upper body weights, flexibility, and could include a HIIT workout a couple hours later.
d2- off of Hiit workout if you didn't do it on day 1
d3- legs weights, flexibility
d4 - off
day5 - total body weights, another longer steady state workout if you have time
d6-off
day7-off

Just send me a PM if you need any more help.

Alwaysbelieve1
05-16-2007, 07:52 PM
High Intensity Interval Training, or HIIT, works really well instead of steady state aerobics to increase your metabolism and get your body revving to burn fat all day long. So, instead of walking or running on a treadmill at the same pace for 30 minutes, you'd walk(or jog) two minutes then run(or sprint) for a minute or two, then walk(or jog) again. Alternate between high and low intensity. You can do the same on an exercise bike, elliptical machine, cardio rower or whatever activity you choose. This works extremely well for fat loss!

If you extend your time your intensity cannot be kept high due to your need of energy conservation. You want to keep it to the standard of 12-15 minutes. That way your intensity can be maxed out since you know you will only have the short period. Less is more. Your goal on HIIT training is NOT to burn "X" amount of calories, but instead get your metabolism going as fast as possible to burn calories at a higher rate 24hours a day.
Performing steady state cardio after or before HIIT is definitely NOT recommended since this type of training actually teaches your body how to store fat more efficiently.

Conventional cardio performed on equipment (bike, stepper, rower, elliptical, etc.) consists of thirty to forty-five minutes of an even-paced activity. The participant seeks out by, calculation or a heart monitor, his or her preferred heart rate and goes for the chosen duration. The goal is to burn calories (and, hopefully fat) as well as develop the efficiency of the heart and lungs. The activity raises the metabolism and calorie burning continues for an extended period of time throughout the day. It works to a degree. Beats the couch, TV, and a bag of chips by a mile. However, the monotony, non-creativity, invested time and scramble for equipment takes its toll on most everyone. It is a waste of time!

When you do a cardio session at the same pace the whole time, your body goes into what is called a "steady state". This means that your body has adjusted itself to the speed you are going and tries hard to conserve energy (calories). You will be able to avoid this and burn more calories and FAT by doing the interval training.

Here's to being productive:
Short blasts of high intensity cardio snaps the trainee out of the adaptive "steady state" the body wisely seeks to conserve energy (calories) when practicing the same pace, low intensity, long duration protocol of ordinary aerobics. Tricks are in order. The metabolism reaches a more heightened state for a longer period of time after high intensity intervals, assuring the performer of continued fat burning effects. Cardiovascular conditioning is achieved much sooner according to studying physicians.

When it comes to the heart rate question— whether to stay lower or higher — this is your answer. At a lower % of max heart rate (65%), a larger percentage of calories burned come from fat than at a higher heart rate (75-85%). HOWEVER, despite the percentages, you will burn more total calories and therefore more total fat calories at a higher heart rate.

The key to developing the cardiovascular system without an unacceptable loss of strength, speed, and power is interval training. Interval training mixes bouts of work and rest in timed intervals.

Interval training need not be so structured or formal. One example would be to sprint between one set of telephone poles and jog between the next set alternating in this manner for the duration of a run. Creativity is welcome as you feel your way around the intervals. Vary the load intensity and rest intervals according to your moods and needs.

The general rule about interval training is that if you feel like you can do more at the end you have done it wrong. You need to fully exert yourself to your utmost. This is not where you get off the nice machine, grab your book, and go on with your day. After interval training you feel as if you just got hit by a Mack truck, but the results will astound you. After a while you will love performing interval training and look forward to it.


Examples are:

All intervals are for either 12-15 min. unless otherwise specified.
On the Concept 2 Rower(C2):

1. 12- 250 meter(m) sprints with a 1 min. rest in between

2. 30/30- 30s sprint followed by a 30s rest for 12-15 min. total

3. 250m, 500m, 250m, 500m

4. 1 min. of rowing followed by a 1 minute of rest for 12-15 min. total

On the StairMaster:

1. 30/30

2. 1:1- 1 min. fast and 1 min. slow

3. 8-12 Quarter mile sprints with a 30s-60s rest in between

4. 6 Half mile sprints with a 1 min. rest in between

Guerrilla Cardio(Spinting):

Time Involved: 12 minutes total effort (20 seconds working/ 10 seconds resting)

Machine or Method: On treadmill, stairs or outdoor streets

The working period is a all-out/non-stop sprint followed by the rest period which is a non-working rest. The rest is you actually standing in place, not moving and catching your breath for the quick 10 seconds either on the sides of the treadmill as the tread still moves beneath you or simply stopping if you perform this outdoors(or on an indoor track).

Process:
Minutes 1-4:
Warm-up @ 50% of perceived maximum sprint effort followed by:

Minute 5:
Sprinting for 20 seconds
Rest for 10 seconds
Sprinting for 20 seconds
Rest for 10 seconds

Minute 6:
Sprinting for 20 seconds
Rest for 10 seconds
Sprinting for 20 seconds
Rest for 10 seconds

Minute 7:
Sprinting for 20 seconds
Rest for 10 seconds
Sprinting for 20 seconds
Rest for 10 seconds

Minute 8:
Sprinting for 20 seconds
Rest for 10 seconds
Sprinting for 20 seconds
Rest for 10 seconds

Minutes 9-12:
Cool-down @ 50% of perceived maximum sprint effort (same as warm-up)