View Full Version : Most important supplement

05-23-2007, 02:16 PM
What is the most important supplement to an MMA fighter while in training

05-23-2007, 06:08 PM
I would have to say ZMA or Whey protein. It would have to be something to acclerate recovery.

The ZMA will replace lost minerals and improve sleep quality. (As well as increases natural testosterone levels.)

The whey protein would just provide more nutrition to the tired muscles.

Creatine at 3-5grams daily upto 4-6weeks out from a fight would be ok. Increasing anaerobic capacity, strength, cognitive function... but would need to be taken out of the diet to prevent excess water storage.

You could use tribulus testerris to increase LH levels, which in turn increases testosterone levels.

BCAA's are also an excellent addition to any ones supplement regimn; if you can afford to use them. For a myraid of benefits; check out this link (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1123403) if you wan tot learn more about BCAA's. But be aware that it's from t-nation, so they are trying to sell you their products.

Tokyo's bad boy
05-28-2007, 07:16 PM
What is this ZMA you speak of? I train 2 days weights, 2 days cardio (with punching) and 2 days MMA. So i'm looking for somethign to help recovery and help my muscles grow. I already take Whey.

05-28-2007, 07:37 PM
What is this ZMA you speak of? I train 2 days weights, 2 days cardio (with punching) and 2 days MMA. So i'm looking for somethign to help recovery and help my muscles grow. I already take Whey.


1. The effect of zinc depletion on muscle function was tested in 8 male subjects. After receiving 12 mg Zn/day for 17 days, the subjects received 0.3 mg Zn/day for either 33 or 41 days. The subjects were then divided into two groups for zinc repletion. Group A subjects received overnight infusion of 66 mg of Zn on Day 1 and 10 and then were fed 12 mg Zn/day for another 16 days. Group B subjects were fed 12 mg Zn/day for 21 days. Peak force and total work capacity of the knee and shoulder extensor and flexor muscle groups were assessed using an isokinetic dynamometer at baseline, at two points during depletion, and at repletion. Plasma zinc levels decreased by an average of 67% during depletion and remained 9% below baseline after repletion. The peak force of the muscle groups was not found to be significantly affected by acute zinc depletion, however, shoulder peak force (strength) was found to be reduced by 9.2% in the extensor muscles. Total work capacity (muscle endurance) for the knee extensor muscles and shoulder extensor and flexor muscles declined significantly by 28.1%, 24.1% and 26.4%, respectively. This study demonstrates that muscle endurance, or total work capacity, declines rapidly with acute zinc depletion and the degree of the decline was correlated with the reduction in plasma zinc concentration.

Van Loan, MD, et al. The Effects of Zinc Depletion on Peak Force and Total Work of Knee and Shoulder Extensor and Flexor Muscles. Int J of Sport Nutr, June 1999, Vol. 9, No. 2, 125-135.

2. A study was conducted to determine the effects of magnesium supplementation on strength development during a double-blind, 7-week strength training program in 26 untrained subjects (14=placebo, 12= Mg), 18-30 years old. Pre and post peak quadriceps torque (leg press) measurements were made using an isokinetic dynamometer. The leg muscle strength of the magnesium supplemented group significantly increased by 26%, compared to only 10% for the placebo group.

Brilla, LR, et al. Effect of Magnesium Supplementation on Strength Training in Humans. J Am Coll Nutr, July 1992, Vol 11, No. 3, 326-329

Read the rest here (http://www.snac.com/res_zma_1.htm)

As well, from Victor Conte in a Flex article:


FLEX June 2005

I've heard a lot about ZMA and its effects on testosterone. Should I be taking it?

By Steve O'Reilly, RD, LD

If you're like every other bodybuilder on the planet, and you want to get bigger and more ripped, then there are some things you should know about testosterone. First, keeping your testosterone elevated makes it easier to build muscle mass. Second, testosterone declines naturally with age, especially after the age of 40. Obviously, the drop in testosterone is intricately linked to a similar decline in lean muscle mass seen in the same demographic. The more muscle mass you’re able to build when you are younger, the less this is likely to be a problem as you age. As a younger bodybuilder, the more you can support your testosterone levels, the easier it will be to build muscle mass and maintain it. If your testosterone is low, ZMA (zinc monomethionine, magnesium aspartate and vitamin B6) can be effective in helping to boost it.

Testosterone is the androgenic hormone primarily responsible for normal growth and development of male sex and reproductive organs, but it also facilitates the development of male musculature, bone mass and fat distribution. In addition, having normal testosterone levels helps maintain energy, mood and sexual desire. So, your concern about testosterone is warranted.

Before supplementing with ZMA, consider your current zinc and magnesium levels. A deficiency in either zinc or magnesium will trigger a decline in endurance and in the strength capacity of your muscles. In that case, supplementation would obviously be advised.

When zinc levels are low – relatively common in hard-training athletes – then circulating testosterone concentrations also tend to be low. ZMA supplementation is a convenient way to avoid zinc and magnesium deficiencies and, in turn, it may help to maintain normal quantities of circulating testosterone. However, there is little – if any – evidence that ZMA supplementation will help raise a healthy male’s normal level of testosterone to above normal.

When deciding whether ZMA supplementation is right for you, analyze your diet to see if you are getting enough zinc and magnesium from the foods you eat. Some common zinc-containing foods are beef, egg yolks, fish, milk and pork. (The recommended daily allowance, or RDA, for zinc is 15 milligrams [mg].) Some common magnesium-containing foods are almonds, avocados, bananas, diary products and some types of fish. (The RDA for magnesium is approximately 400 mg.)

When you take ZMA, it will generally help you sleep better, especially if you have zinc or magnesium deficiencies (improved sleep quality from ZMA supplementation is a good indication that you should be taking it). It is typically recommended that ZMA be taken on an empty stomach before bedtime and without any sources of calcium, because zinc and calcium compete for absorption. A typical dose of ZMA contains 15-30 mg of zinc, 200-450 mg of magnesium and 10.5 mg of vitamin B6.

05-28-2007, 07:40 PM

You can usually cut out the middle man by getting the Protein and BCAA's together. I like Optimum Whey. (Vanilla Ice Cream and Double Chocolate)

I have NEVER had good luck with precursors Adonis. I have also read that a person cannot process free-form Glutamine Peptide, but have had wonderful experiences while using it personally. I would stay away from liquid creatine, it didn't do shit for me. Good old powder was the best.

Tokyo's bad boy
05-28-2007, 07:48 PM
What products do this th ebest?

05-28-2007, 11:43 PM
I would throw fish oils into the mix. They have a multitude of health/performance benefits and a person would be very hard pressed to get enough of them from fish alone.

05-29-2007, 06:08 AM
I would throw fish oils into the mix. They have a multitude of health/performance benefits and a person would be very hard pressed to get enough of them from fish alone.

I can't believe I forgot fish oil. Definitely

05-29-2007, 07:08 AM
What is the importance of potassium? Does it somehow help in protein synthesis or are you speaking in terms of general health?

05-29-2007, 01:16 PM
What is the importance of potassium? Does it somehow help in protein synthesis or are you speaking in terms of general health?

I'm assuming to increase the rate of re-hydration post workout. Just an electrolyte we need.

Add a 50/50 split to your water between potassium/salt to make a unflavoured gatorade and increase the amount of water your body will be able to "soak up" post workout.

Susan M. Shirreffs et. al. Rehydration After Exercise in the Heat: A Comparison of 4 Commonly Used Drinks. IJSNEM (2007). 17(3): 244-258.

To determine the effectiveness of 3 commonly used beverages in restoring fluid and electrolyte balance, 8 volunteers dehydrated by 1.94% 0.17% of body mass by intermittent exercise in the heat, then ingested a carbohydrate-electrolyte solution (Gatorade), carbonated water/apple-juice mixture (Apfelschorle), and San Benedetto mineral water in a volume equal to 150% body-mass loss. These drinks are all are perceived to be effective rehydration solutions, and their effectiveness was compared with the rehydration effectiveness of Evian mineral water, which is not perceived in this way by athletes. Four hours after rehydration, the subjects were in a significantly lower hydration status than the pretrial situation on trials with Apfelschorle (-365 319 mL, P = 0.030), Evian (-529 319 mL, P < 0.0005), and San Benedetto (-401 353 mL, P = 0.016) but were in the same hydration status as before the dehydrating exercise on Gatorade (-201 388 mL, P = 0.549). Sodium balance was negative on all trials throughout the study; only with Apfelschorle did subjects remain in positive potassium balance. In this scenario, recovery of fluid balance can only be achieved when significant, albeit insufficient, quantities of sodium are ingested after exercise. There is a limited range of commercially available products that have a composition sufficient to achieve this, even though the public thinks that some of the traditional drinks are effective for this purpose.

Continuing in the same vein as last week's review, this is another paper on rehydration following exercise looking at the impact of several different real world beverages.

They chose Gatorade, a carbonated apple juice drink (called Apfelshorle which is apparently popular in Germany), San Benedetto mineral water (perceived popularly to be effective for rehydration) and Evian mineral water (apparently not perceived by athletes as effective for rehydration) and tested each on rehydration following standardized exercise in the heat.

As I believe I mentioned last week, sodium and potassium content can greatly affect how well the body retains water. Additionally, small amounts of sodium and potassium tend to impact on taste and people often drink more of fluids containing them (This is one of the reasons Gatorade/Powerade drinks include both). At the same time, too much sodium makes drinks unpalatable and most commercial drinks strike a balance between effective amounts of sodium/potassium (in terms of hydration) and what consumers will drink. One aspect of this study was comparing drinks of differing electrolyte content. The Gatorade contained not only carbs but the greatest amount of sodium, the apple drink had similar amounts of carbs but the most potassium, neither mineral water contained calories or significant amounts of minerals (sodium or potassium).

The study protocol was very similar to last week's study, 8 subjects were monitored during exercise with sweat and bodyweight measured until they had lost 1.9% of their initial bodyweight during roughly 80 (+-25) minutes of bike exercise in a warm and humid room. Subjects were then given fluids in amounts 150% of the lost weight over the next hour in 4 split drinks and urine output and hydration was monitored for the next 4 hours. Because the total fluid loss was similar among all groups, so was the amount of each drink given, roughly 2 L of each drink was consumed over the first hour of recovery.

The total amount of urine produced (again, used as a marker of how much fluid was retained) was lowest for Gatorade with the apple drink next and both mineral waters showing the greatest urine production (I.e. least amount of fluid retained in the body). Electrolyte balance was also examined in terms of the amount of sodium and potassium lost during exercise relative to the amount put back in with the drinks.

Similarly, after 4 hours, only the Gatorade group was even close to normal hydration status (roughly 200 ml down) with the other three drinks still leaving the body in a relative state of dehydration (365 ml for the apple drink, 401 ml for the San Benedetto drink and 529 for the Evian water).

With regards to electrolyte balance, the results are exactly what you'd expect given the composition of the drinks. The Gatorade (higher sodium) group showed the lowest net sodium balance although the subjects were still a little bit sodium depleted, the apple drink group (highest potassium) actually achieved positive potassium balance and both mineral water groups did the worst overall since neither contained sodium or potassium.

So, clearly in terms of rehydration (with the drinks compared in this study), Gatorade was slightly superior to an apple juice based drink and both were superior to either bottled water. The researchers do point out that the different is fairly small (300 ml between groups) and how much of an impact this would have practically is debatable. For athletes training multiple times daily in the heat, such levels of slight dehydration could add up over time.

So what's the practical message from this? As with last week's study on a similar topic, and contrary to popular belief, it doesn't appear that straight water is optimal for hydration, at least not following exercise. The lack of sufficient sodium and potassium clearly makes it inferior to drinks containing either or both electrolytes in terms of net fluid retention by the body. Athletes (or simply active individuals) for whom rehydration following exercise is important should consider either

a. picking a drink containing adequate amounts of both sodium and potassium. I'd note that this can be combined with other aspects of post-workout recovery in the first place noting again last week's study which found that milk was superior to either Powerade (very similar to Gatorade) or water in terms of hydration, on top of containing both high quality protein and carbs.

b. at the very least throwing a little bit of sodium/potassium into water or their recovery drink to ensure optimal fluid retention by the body. It shouldn't take much, 1/4-1/2 tsp of light salt (which is 1/2 sodium and 1/2 potassium) added to 1L of fluid provides nearly enough sodium and more than enough potassium to ensure optimal fluid retention and hydration following exercise.

06-01-2007, 03:18 PM
I'm now taking the GNC Megaman Sport Vitapak thingie, and I'm wondering does this cover my ZMA needs or should I pick up ZMA as an additional supplement.

06-01-2007, 11:53 PM
I'm now taking the GNC Megaman Sport Vitapak thingie, and I'm wondering does this cover my ZMA needs or should I pick up ZMA as an additional supplement.

No it does not.

If you wanted tog et one, I like SNAC or Cytodyne. SNAC being much better than the latter

06-04-2007, 04:00 AM
What is the most important supplement to an MMA fighter while in training

Protein, glutamine, rest