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Mastiff_owner
05-26-2007, 05:11 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/columns/story?columnist=tessitore_joe&id=2877915

Joe Tessitore rips boxing's last three big fights. no mention of mma but I found the article amusing and right on point. Sad that this is where boxing has gone.

smoogy
05-26-2007, 05:13 AM
boxing sux any1 from the ufc could go in there and win by RNC lol

Seriously though, we do have a boxing forum.

Mastiff_owner
05-26-2007, 05:25 AM
because it was putting boxing in a negative light I thought it was more appropriate here. If it needs to be moved we have mods to do that. I have been a member long enough to know that we have a boxing thread.

Palma
05-26-2007, 05:38 AM
What's the big deal with another espn "journalist" writing another subjective off base article? DLH vs Mayweather was one of the best fights in almost a decade. And why do MMA fans want to put boxing down so much. If it wasn't for boxing MMA wouldn't even exist. This thread should be deleated. Sorry Mastiff but boxing vs. MMA is inappropriate and narrow minded. They are two different sports and if you don't like boxing then you shouldn't watch it but it is a great sport should not be looked down upon by MMA fans.

Noise Chopped
05-26-2007, 05:53 AM
What's the big deal with another espn "journalist" writing another subjective off base article? DLH vs Mayweather was one of the best fights in almost a decade. And why do MMA fans want to put boxing down so much. If it wasn't for boxing MMA wouldn't even exist. This thread should be deleated. Sorry Mastiff but boxing vs. MMA is inappropriate and narrow minded. They are two different sports and if you don't like boxing then you shouldn't watch it but it is a great sport should not be looked down upon by MMA fans.

DLH vs. Mayweather being one of the "best fights" in almost a decade is true - And that's the sad part. The sad part being that it didn't do much for the sport except solidify it as a traditionally "sweet science" limbo that doesn't ring too well with the casual fans - On top of those fans who boxing had ALREADY lost due to its gross negligence.

So, because the critique is harsh, people should LIGHTEN up on boxing? Um, no - This discussion is very much appropriate. Boxing is in the position it's in for a (MANY) reasons - And that shouldn't be ignored because it ruffles some feathers. Here here, Joe Tessitore. It's a real shame, but it's real truth as well.

Mastiff_owner
05-26-2007, 05:55 AM
What's the big deal with another espn "journalist" writing another subjective off base article? DLH vs Mayweather was one of the best fights in almost a decade. And why do MMA fans want to put boxing down so much. If it wasn't for boxing MMA wouldn't even exist. This thread should be deleated. Sorry Mastiff but boxing vs. MMA is inappropriate and narrow minded. They are two different sports and if you don't like boxing then you shouldn't watch it but it is a great sport should not be looked down upon by MMA fans.

I never said I didn't like boxing. I bought the DLH V Mayweather ppv I have been a boxing fan for a long time. If you look at any of the thousand boxing v mma debates on here I usually defend boxing to an extent b/c the two aren't the same sport. Joe Tessitore is a well established and highly respected boxing analyst. I posted the article not to incite a boxing v mma debate but more because there have been so many articles bashing mma lately everywhere from PTI and Around the Horn to various reputable news outlets on line. Most notably the crap on cbssportsline. This was the first article I have seen from a reputable source that pretty much laid out why boxing is on the decline. I was surprised when I read it and thought others would be as well.

Dork8503
05-26-2007, 05:57 AM
Sorry but Oscar and Floyd was not close to one of the best fights. There are so many more fights in the last few years that were alot better. The fight was the biggest fight in boxing history but no where near a great fight in some years. Shit Kelly vs Miranda was 10x better,

Palma
05-26-2007, 05:57 AM
DLH vs. Mayweather being one of the "best fights" in almost a decade is true - And that's the sad part. The sad part being that it didn't do much for the sport except solidify it as a traditionally "sweet science" limbo that doesn't ring too well with the casual fans - On top of those fans who boxing had ALREADY lost due to its gross negligence.

So, because the critique is harsh, people should LIGHTEN up on boxing? Um, no - This discussion is very much appropriate. Boxing is in the position it's in for a (MANY) reasons - And that shouldn't be ignored because it ruffles some feathers. Here here, Joe Tessitore. It's a real shame, but it's real truth as well.

State boxing is in? DLH vs. Mayweather sold more PPVs then the UFC could ever dream of selling. CHeck your facts because you don't know what you are talking about.

How is MMA vs. Boxing appropriate? There is nothing to gain and much to lose with that slim view of sports. Why can't you just like MMA and not follow boxing? Why does being a fan of MMA mean you have to detest boxing?

DLH vs. Mayweather was a great fight, it's not boxing's fault that you don't know anything about the sport.

The Critique isn't hash as much as it is an opinion passed off as facts. ESPN has the worst sports journalist when it comes to being objective and that is what journalist should be but unfortunatly people like you get off on bullshit like this.

Noise Chopped
05-26-2007, 06:05 AM
State boxing is in? DLH vs. Mayweather sold more PPVs then the UFC could ever dream of selling. CHeck your facts because you don't know what you are talking about.

How is MMA vs. Boxing appropriate? There is nothing to gain and much to lose with that slim view of sports. Why can't you just like MMA and not follow boxing? Why does being a fan of MMA mean you have to detest boxing?

DLH vs. Mayweather was a great fight, it's not boxing's fault that you don't know anything about the sport.

The Critique isn't hash as much as it is an opinion passed off as facts. ESPN has the worst sports journalist when it comes to being objective and that is what journalist should be but unfortunatly people like you get off on bullshit like this.

Boo hoo hoo hoo, jesus. So defensive, with such little substance.

Seeing as you brought it up - Facts and all - Just where the fuck did I say this had something to do with "MMA vs. Boxing?" Just where exactly did you quote me having said anything even relevant to MMA? I must have missed the sentence where I wrote, "Boxing iz shit, mma rulzz." Don't slight me because that's the majority opinion - And don't fucking soften up the problems boxing's accumulated because it hurts your little feelings.

The fact the great sport of boxing is in the state it's in has much more to do with what it's done to itself, than anything anyone could point out about MMA - And that shouldn't be swept under the rug or sugar coated because hotheads like you will be quick to make it a "MMA vs. Boxing" debate.

Boxing's in the state it's in because of boxing, so quit making a quick cop-out by painting this discussion off with the broad brush of a "MMA vs. Boxing" thread.

Palma
05-26-2007, 06:10 AM
Boo hoo hoo hoo, jesus. So defensive, with such little substance.

Seeing as you brought it up - Facts and all - Just where the fuck did I say this had something to do with "MMA vs. Boxing?" Just where exactly did you quote me having said anything even relevant to MMA? I must have missed the sentence where I wrote, "Boxing iz shit, mma rulzz." Don't slight me because that's the majority opinion - And don't fucking soften up the problems boxing's accumulated because it hurts your little feelings.

The fact the great sport of boxing is in the state it's in has much more to do with what it's done to itself, than anything anyone could point out about MMA - And that shouldn't be swept under the rug or sugar coated because hotheads like you will be quick to make it a "MMA vs. Boxing" debate.

Boxing's in the state it's in because of boxing, so quit making a quick cop-out by painting this discussion off with the broad brush of a "MMA vs. Boxing" thread.

All I did was ask you questions, which you dodged by the way. If you are reading emotional intent then that is your projection.

DLH vs. Mayweather eclipsed the previous non HW bout PPV record by over a million buys. Again, what state are you talking abou? And the implication of thie thread on the main "MMA" forum and not the boxing forum suggest that as MMA fans we are glad to see ESPN doging boxing like they dog eveything else. They also had allot of bad shit to say about MMA at one point. Does that mean they are right because they wrote it?


I never said I didn't like boxing. I bought the DLH V Mayweather ppv I have been a boxing fan for a long time. If you look at any of the thousand boxing v mma debates on here I usually defend boxing to an extent b/c the two aren't the same sport. Joe Tessitore is a well established and highly respected boxing analyst. I posted the article not to incite a boxing v mma debate but more because there have been so many articles bashing mma lately everywhere from PTI and Around the Horn to various reputable news outlets on line. Most notably the crap on cbssportsline. This was the first article I have seen from a reputable source that pretty much laid out why boxing is on the decline. I was surprised when I read it and thought others would be as well.

Got it. You know I am not trying to call you out. But I'm sure you know what is comming regarding boxing bashing.

Mastiff_owner
05-26-2007, 06:11 AM
I actually agree with what Joe said about why boxing is in the state its in. Quality of the fights. Granted not every boxing match will be gatti ward 1,2 or 3 but there should be action in every round. Two fighters going in to jab/clinch out a decision is not what made me a fan of boxing back in the day.


Smoogy- you were right this should have gone in the boxing section my bad. Mods can move anytime.

Noise Chopped
05-26-2007, 06:16 AM
All I did was ask you questions, which you dodged by the way. If you are reading emotional intent then that is your projection.

DLH vs. Mayweather eclipsed the previous non HW bout PPV record by over a million buys. Again, what state are you talking about? And the implication of the thread on the main "MMA" forum and not the boxing forum suggest that as MMA fans we are glad to see ESPN doging boxing like the dogs eveything else. They also had allot of bad shit to say about MMA a one point. Does that mean they are right because they wrote it?

The fact the DLH vs. Mayweather fight was dubbed as, "The fight to save boxing," night and day should give you a good reason of what I mean. I don't remember the NBA, the NFL, MLB, or hell - Even the NHL having any one single night being dubbed with any titles that referred to the possability of the sport being saved (from what any logical person would assume death).

Now, whether or not that statements right - The position boxing has put itself in (meaning not having to rely on ONE, super, mega fight that proved to be the "sweet science" the casual fans hate) has very little to do with MMA. Pointing out what boxing's done to itself shouldn't be shrugged off as some low level attempt at pumping up MMA, but maybe even embraced? Those old quacks that go on ranting about how awful MMA is should really take the time to look into a MIRROR and check itself out before jumping to any conclusions.

Maybe then boxing won't have to rely on one mega fight a decade to "save" it.

Palma
05-26-2007, 06:18 AM
The fact the DLH vs. Mayweather fight was dubbed as, "The fight to save boxing," night and day should give you a good reason of what I mean. I don't remember the NBA, the NFL, MLB, or hell - Even the NHL having any one single night being dubbed with any titles that referred to the possability of the sport being saved (from what any logical person would assume death).

Now, whether or not that statements right - The position boxing has put itself in (meaning not having to rely on ONE, super, mega fight that proved to be the "sweet science" the casual fans hate) has very little to do with MMA. Pointing out what boxing's done to itself shouldn't be shrugged off as some low level attempt at pumping up MMA, but maybe even embraced? Those old quacks that go on ranting about how awful MMA is should really take the time to look into a MIRROR and check itself out before jumping to any conclusions.

Maybe then boxing won't have to rely on one mega fight a decade to "save" it.

Way to dodge the question again. Are you fucking retarded or something?

Mastiff_owner
05-26-2007, 06:19 AM
All I did was ask you questions, which you dodged by the way. If you are reading emotional intent then that is your projection.

DLH vs. Mayweather eclipsed the previous non HW bout PPV record by over a million buys. Again, what state are you talking about? And the implication of the thread on the main "MMA" forum and not the boxing forum suggest that as MMA fans we are glad to see ESPN doging boxing like the dogs eveything else. They also had allot of bad shit to say about MMA a one point. Does that mean they are right because they wrote it?


I don't think comparing one record breaking event in DLH v PBF and one UFC event is an accurrate portrayal of teh state of boxing. They showed the PPV revenues from last year for boxing and the UFC the numbers weren't even comparable the UFC blew them out of the water.

Its true that ESPN was saying alot of bad shit about mma but that was mostly done by uneducated, unappreciative journalists that had no real idea of what they were talking about. That is why this article stood out to me. It was written by someone that knows what the hell they are talking about and it was probably the most objective view of boxing's problems I have seen anywhere.

Now that they have been educated a little they are beginning to come around on mma.

Palma
05-26-2007, 06:21 AM
I don't think comparing one record breaking event in DLH v PBF and one UFC event is an accurrate portrayal of teh state of boxing. They showed the PPV revenues from last year for boxing and the UFC the numbers weren't even comparable the UFC blew them out of the water.

Its true that ESPN was saying alot of bad shit about mma but that was mostly done by uneducated, unappreciative journalists that had no real idea of what they were talking about. That is why this article stood out to me. It was written by someone that knows what the hell they are talking about and it was probably the most objective view of boxing's problems I have seen anywhere.

Now that they have been educated a little they are beginning to come around on mma.

I thought this wasn't about MMA vs. Boxing. Besides, the UFC has 12 events a year. Of course they are going to have higher revenue because of it.

Noise Chopped
05-26-2007, 06:23 AM
State boxing is in?


Yea, the state being having to rely on one single mega fight so's the sport is "saved" from the state you seem to want to ignore because it hurts your feelings or whatever.

That state.

You know, the state - "The fight to save boxing."

The state in which boxing's put ITSELF in.

That one.

The one MMA had nothing to do with but people like you love to use as a copout and get your panties in a bunch over. That one. Believe it's by Idaho or something.

Palma
05-26-2007, 06:26 AM
Yea, the state being having to rely on one single mega fight so's the sport is "saved" from the state you seem to want to ignore because it hurts your feelings or whatever.

That state.

You know, the state - "The fight to save boxing."

The state in which boxing's put ITSELF in.

That one.

You act as if the promoters themselve titled the fight "the fight to save boxing" That was coined by the journalists who only get paid if they have something to write about.

I admit that the HW division is the worst it has ever been, but the lighter weights have as much talent and fans as they ever have.

Mastiff_owner
05-26-2007, 08:07 AM
not about boxing v mma debate. when I first posted the article I even stated that there was no mention of mma in the article. I thought it might go there eventually but oh well.

Out of curiosity how many boxing analysts have you heard talk about the state of boxing. Trust me boxing is in a bad way. just 5 years ago I would have 5 or 6 parties a year that were dedicated to boxing events. There are no more stars other than DLH. I think that articles like this need to be written to wake the boxing community the fuck up.

lackluster fights that don't put fans in the seats are ultimately what is going to bring boxing down. They have no way to attract new fans.

Palma
05-26-2007, 10:00 AM
not about boxing v mma debate. when I first posted the article I even stated that there was no mention of mma in the article. I thought it might go there eventually but oh well.

Out of curiosity how many boxing analysts have you heard talk about the state of boxing. Trust me boxing is in a bad way. just 5 years ago I would have 5 or 6 parties a year that were dedicated to boxing events. There are no more stars other than DLH. I think that articles like this need to be written to wake the boxing community the fuck up.

lackluster fights that don't put fans in the seats are ultimately what is going to bring boxing down. They have no way to attract new fans.

There are tons of great light weight boxers. As many as there have ever been. The state is different because there are no great HW bouts, which attracts the casual fan more then the ligther weights.

Noise Chopped
05-26-2007, 04:40 PM
Great lightweight boxers - You mean the handful the casual fan might or might not recognize? There's a great breed out there, but that's not the problems boxing has. The surpluss of talent is not boxings' problem - It's how the sports' managed to (or hasn't managed to) promote them, fight them, and showcase them. John Duddy vs. Bustamante? :blink:.

The fact boxing still has great talent won't ever go away, but the sports popularity and mismanagement (on all fronts) has put the state of boxing where it is today. Brian Kenny doesn't call most of the belts (of which there are like, six thousand for every division) "trinkets" for nothing.

Frankly, I think ESPN's been doing as good a job as it can trying to "save" boxing. Throwing a life preserver in the form of releasing fights from its "ESPN Classics" archive is probably the best it can do. Hell, the Peterson Bros. put on a more aesthetically pleasing (for the casual fan) fight just this week than boxings' recent overpriced PPV.

Afro
05-26-2007, 05:32 PM
Dont you feel that people would recgonize the great talents in the LW division if there were a strong HW division?

Salvy_Mic
05-26-2007, 06:11 PM
People have always seemed to use the success and competitiveness of the Heavyweight division as a barometer to measure the well-being of boxing, but they don't always corrolate. The only good heavyweights fighting at an elite level then were Larry Holmes and Mike Tyson (Holyfield only moved up in 88, Lewis was still just a prospect, and Michael Spinks, a great light heavyweight, only had like 4 fights at HW). Meanwhile, the rest of the division sucked. They were competitive with each other, yeah, but otherwise, who cared about former titlists like Trevor Berbick, Tony Tucker, Bonecrusher Smith, Gerrie Coetzee, Pinklon Thomas, Tim Witherspoon, Tony Tubbs, etc. Yet boxing in the 80s was great, when gods like Leonard, Duran, Hearns, and Hagler were around, as well as future HOF-ers like Arguello, Pryor, McCallum, Chavez, Rosario, Camacho, Holyfield the cruiserweight, Qawi, and Saad Muhammad, among others.

The problem with boxing now is that the best don't consistently fight the best anymore, and that is a major problem. Floyd Mayweather is the poster boy for this. After he moved up from lightweight (and at 130 and 135, he fought excellent opposition like Jose Luis Castillo, Diego Corrales, Carlos Hernandez, Jesus Chavez, and Genaro Hernandez. I, a Mayweather-hater, won't deny it), he stopped fighting upper echelon guys, with the exception of a fading Arturo Gatti, and erratic Zab Judah, and a twilight Oscar de la Hoya, but eschewing big fights with the likes of Miguel Cotto, Ricky Hatton, Antonio Margarito, and Shane Mosley for the likes of a badly faded Sharmba Mitchell, DeMarcus Corley, Henry Bruseles, and Carlos Baldomir. What the hell?

Mayweather never would have gotten away with that in the 80s and even the early 90s, when the seeds for that sort of fighting schedule were sown by Roy Jones (although he was cleaning out 175, there was still big fights he could have taken that he never did, like a Hopkins rematch and Dariusz Michaelewski). The fact that promoters feel that they're little feuds with each other are more important than the fights, the fact that HBO allows mismatches to constantly happen and pay huge money for bullshit exclusive contracts, and the fact that the sanctioning bodies have bullshit rankings and force mis-mandatories on their champions is contributing to boxing's low ebb. Still, it's not as bad as it was in the early 60s, when boxing nearly got banned after the Griffith/Paret fight. Then Muhammad Ali came along and changed everything.

Boxing can and will turn around, but it'll take more than a few forward-thinking journalists and frustrated fans to do it. It won't happen by itself.

RedsquareBlackbox
06-17-2007, 10:08 AM
Useless moaning. If you're going to rebuke, make it worthwhile.