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[Punk Ass]

Originally Posted by Greenish

Wrong, Hill owned LHW untill he fought Dariusz Michalczewski. When RJJ got to him Virgin didn't have a single title nor was he linear champ.

I don't mean make a flame war here, I just don't think RJJ is on same level as SRL, neither skill- nor legacy-wise.

I stand corrected, but the RJJ fight was right after the Dariusz fight. Hill and DM went to a unanimous Dec. while RJJ destroyed Hill. Im also inclined to believe DM didn't take all of Hills titles.

BTW: Dariusz also just lost to Fabrice Tiozzo who lost to Virgil Hill twice, the second time by TKO, they all seem to be on the same level of skill to me. Great fighters, but wasn't on the level of RJJ, but I would take any of them to possibly beat Tarver IMO.

[Luis Cruz]

Originally Posted by harlemhustla145

Yeh I remember it like it was yesterday. The early 90s, I was about 15 year old and I was watching RJJ before anyone new who he was, most people who hate on him never seen him fight in his prime because they were to young to remember or care. Most of my friends have never watched RJJ until he was in the LHW division but by that time he was slowly on a down slide. Like I said, I think he was arguably the best MW ever.

Best 'Middleweight' ever? NOOOOOOOOO, not by a long shot. That distinct honor goes to Sugar Ray Robinson and no one can argue that. I also put Marvin Hagler above him, he was THE MAN forever. Then there's Hopkins who a lot of people might place higher than him because of his lengthy run as champ.

[Afro]

Best Super Middleweight ever is RJJ though

and nah I cant hardly remember his fights but I did suffer a concussion/fracture in my head not too long ago must be why cuz ive seen just about every fight RJJ was in from his up-and-comin days and throughout his reign, I can hardly remember the Montell Griffin DQ, the James Toney fight was 12 years ago I cant even remember anythin about it. That sucks, ima have to go grab some RJJ fights and refresh my memory.

[Punk Ass]

Originally Posted by Luis Cruz

Best 'Middleweight' ever? NOOOOOOOOO, not by a long shot. That distinct honor goes to Sugar Ray Robinson and no one can argue that. I also put Marvin Hagler above him, he was THE MAN forever. Then there's Hopkins who a lot of people might place higher than him because of his lengthy run as champ.

Im talking about prime vs prime. BHop and RJJ in their prime, RJJ alwayz wins.

And this is my opinion, I haven't seen SRR fight to much to gage his skills, all his WW fights were never filmed, all I know is that his best fights were against a slow jake lamotta but i do hand it to him though, he had the longest bum of the month club ever.

Checking other forums RJJ vs SRR seems to be pretty split as far as who would win. There really was no other fighter out there that fought like RJJ ever. The closest was SRR but many say RJJ was faster and bigger, but SRR had more skills and more one punch power,(even though RJJ had 1 punch power as well at MW. Who knows

[Luis Cruz]

Originally Posted by harlemhustla145

Im talking about prime vs prime. BHop and RJJ in their prime, RJJ alwayz wins.

And this is my opinion, I haven't seen SRR fight to much to gage his skills, all his WW fights were never filmed, all I know is that his best fights were against a slow jake lamotta but i do hand it to him though, he had the longest bum of the month club ever.

Checking other forums RJJ vs SRR seems to be pretty split as far as who would win. There really was no other fighter out there that fought like RJJ ever. The closest was SRR but many say RJJ was faster and bigger, but SRR had more skills and more one punch power,(even though RJJ had 1 punch power as well at MW. Who knows

Who would win in a fight or ranking for being better fighter? If there are some other forums out there that are split on the second question, i'd like to see them. Most consider Sugar Ray Robinson the greatest boxer of all time of any weightclass and RJJ is nowhere near that. So those people are clueless. As for a fight in their primes, i'd still lean with Robinson. There's a lot of footage out there of him, there's a dvd i believe somewhere plus on classics they show his fights also. Only a harcore RJJ fan that knows nothing of boxing's earlier years would ever say he was better than Robinson.

[Punk Ass]

Originally Posted by Luis Cruz

Who would win in a fight or ranking for being better fighter? If there are some other forums out there that are split on the second question, i'd like to see them. Most consider Sugar Ray Robinson the greatest boxer of all time of any weightclass and RJJ is nowhere near that. So those people are clueless. As for a fight in their primes, i'd still lean with Robinson. There's a lot of footage out there of him, there's a dvd i believe somewhere plus on classics they show his fights also. Only a harcore RJJ fan that knows nothing of boxing's earlier years would ever say he was better than Robinson.

Im not saying RJJ could have definately beaten SRR I really don't know but, looking at Roy's style early in his career, it wasn't to many out there that could have beaten him. Here the forum you requested, the only one I could find. These are not expert opinions, but opinions none the less, BTW it's a short thread. http://forums.maxboxing.com/lofivers...hp/t27642.html

[Luis Cruz]

Originally Posted by harlemhustla145

Im not saying RJJ could have definately beaten SRR I really don't know but, looking at Roy's style early in his career, it wasn't to many out there that could have beaten him. Here the forum you requested, the only one I could find. These are not expert opinions, but opinions none the less, BTW it's a short thread. http://forums.maxboxing.com/lofivers...hp/t27642.html

Even on there you can tell the people that chose Robinson knew what they were talking about while the 2 that picked RJJ didn't give much detail as to why. Them fighting each other wasn't what i was talking about when i meant a clear winner, people could argue that cause RJJ WAS bigger. I meant who the better fighter was and that was clearly Robinson.

[Punk Ass]

Originally Posted by Luis Cruz

Even on there you can tell the people that chose Robinson knew what they were talking about while the 2 that picked RJJ didn't give much detail as to why. Them fighting each other wasn't what i was talking about when i meant a clear winner, people could argue that cause RJJ WAS bigger. I meant who the better fighter was and that was clearly Robinson.

Ok I don't argue that. But, you said you put hagler above Roy, that I do argue. Roy would beat him exactly the way SRL did except Hagler would land less punches. IMO Roy was way to fast for hagler in his prime. Hagler would of played right into Roys hands. Hagler has a simular style to Tito Trinidad except his chin is much better. He wasn't a slick fighter he was text book. It takes a little more than text book to beat RJJ. I would even pick BHop or a Prime Toney to beat him. They both are slick elusive fighters with great chins. Hagler would never be able to land a solid punch while hagler is not known for his defense he was more known for power and relentlessness.

[Luis Cruz]

Originally Posted by harlemhustla145

Ok I don't argue that. But, you said you put hagler above Roy, that I do argue. Roy would beat him exactly the way SRL did except Hagler would land less punches. IMO Roy was way to fast for hagler in his prime. Hagler would of played right into Roys hands. Hagler has a simular style to Tito Trinidad except his chin is much better. He wasn't a slick fighter he was text book. It takes a little more than text book to beat RJJ. I would even pick BHop or a Prime Toney to beat him. They both are slick elusive fighters with great chins. Hagler would never be able to land a solid punch while hagler is not known for his defense he was more known for power and relentlessness.

Hagler would take a shot to land one. You don't truly believe Roy would've escaped an entire bout without getting hit? Hagler had bricks and one shot would've ended the night for Roy and his very suspect chin. That Sugar Ray win was very controversial and Sugar Ray was a better boxer than Roy with a better chin also, he was the total package and a top two Welterweight of all time. No way would i pick Roy over Hagler, or the other two you mentioned. See what Bernard thinks of Hagler, he is very high on him and for good reason. Sometimes textbook is all you need to get the job done, look at Oscar and Bernard except a guy with 3-4xs the power. Roy was in a time where he didn't have a Hagler, Hearns, or Sugar Ray caliber fighter he had to face. Toney was good and Hopkins was good, but they both got better with time. You're a huge RJJ fan aren't you? lol

[Punk Ass]

Originally Posted by Luis Cruz

Hagler would take a shot to land one. You don't truly believe Roy would've escaped an entire bout without getting hit? Hagler had bricks and one shot would've ended the night for Roy and his very suspect chin. That Sugar Ray win was very controversial and Sugar Ray was a better boxer than Roy with a better chin also, he was the total package and a top two Welterweight of all time. No way would i pick Roy over Hagler, or the other two you mentioned. See what Bernard thinks of Hagler, he is very high on him and for good reason. Sometimes textbook is all you need to get the job done, look at Oscar and Bernard except a guy with 3-4xs the power. Roy was in a time where he didn't have a Hagler, Hearns, or Sugar Ray caliber fighter he had to face. Toney was good and Hopkins was good, but they both got better with time. You're a huge RJJ fan aren't you? lol

Ok listen. If you think RJJ fighting Toney without getting hit with a clean punch was nothing than your crazy. Bernard has some pop with his punches also. tHEY NEVER, NEVER, landed a clean shot. What makes hagler different? In fact i would say Toney has more power at MW than Hagler. Sure RJJ would get hit but in order to get knocked out, he would have to get hit clean. Something that wouldn't happen. Have you seen roy fight as a MW? I don't think so, or your just being arbitrary. I really don't think SRL was a better boxer than Roy. That both have gold metals (dont tell me Roy didn't win that fight). So how can you be so sure these Hagler and Lenard are better than him?

BTW, Lenard lost to Terry Norris when he was only 35 years old. Terry Norris lost 3 fights, before him and SRL ever fought. Let me break this down so it all comes back to RJJ. Terry Norris lost to julian Jackson, who in turn gets his ass whopped by Mike McCallum, who got his ass whopped by James Toney, who everyone knows got got his ass whopped by Roy Jones Jr.

It seems to me, that on paper RJJ is better than Sugar Ray Lenard because he got his ass whopped by by someone who was never better than average (Terry Norris). Now granted this was on the down slide of SRL career but Jesus Christ, he should have at least been able to beat Terry Norris . Everyone else did. hehe!!

I hope you read this Afro Samurai!!!