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[Afro]

oh god its like a broken record "Dlh REALLY beat SSM the 2nd time" you cant just decide that its a win for DLH.. he lost that fight.

[Salvy_Mic]

Harlem, you know I'm a big Oscar fan. But I'll take the time to criticize when it's warranted, and as of late, I don't think Oscar has been close to P4P elite. You're absolutely right, he gave Mayweather a tough, tough fight, but he did end up losing that fight, and he lost it towards the end when he started gassing out.

In general, I've got no problem with Oscar's body of work, and he's been victim of some bad decisions himself. Despite running from Trinidad the last 4 rounds, he still should have won that fight, and he definitely should have won the second fight with Mosley. But on the other hand, you could say his loss to Trinidad was a sort of cosmic recompense for the Whitaker fight, which many people think he lost (I thought he won, but barely), and that the gift he received against Sturm was to make up for the disputed loss to Mosley. Who knows?

All I'm saying is that as of late, Oscar's been a bit thin on meaningful wins. Mayorga and Forbes aren't much to write home about as far as wins go the past 3 years. I'm glad that he still wants to fight, but if he really wanted to fight the fast few years, well, he would have fought more often than just once a year. Hell, I'm willing to bet that if Oscar had taken at least one fight between Mayorga and Mayweather, he would have been sharp and in shape enough to hang an L on Mayweather's record. It's just that lately, Oscar's been more promoter than fighter, at least until this year, his supposed last.

I dunno, maybe I've been conversing with too many cynical, hardcore boxing fans on another message board as of late, so a lot of the admittedly good criticisms and gripes they have with Oscar has sort of dimmed the luster on my hero. Maybe it's good for me, so I can understand the two sides of the coing, his fans and his haters. I'm still a fan, but I do understand and realize that Oscar the fighter could have and should have been one of the top 10 all-time greats had he not made some tactical errors and actually had a better gas tank.

History will probably rank Mayweather above Oscar, to the hardcores' satisfaction, and possibly to my chagrin. Hell, the early parts of their careers are similar to one another as far as the quality of opponents go. Guys like Genaro Hernandez, Carlos Hernandez, Jesus Chavez, Angel Manfredy (at the time, considered quite dangerous), Diego Corrales, and Jose Luis Castillo is nothing to sneeze at. But after he fought Gatti, it's like Mayweather stopped caring. Between 2003 and 2007, the only fights that Mayweather took where he had a chance of losing were the ones against Judah (in a fight for a bogus belt), Oscar (aging), and Hatton (can't diss this one). But why didn't Mayweather ever try to fight guys like Margarito, Cotto, or Tszyu?

At least Oscar, post-Trinidad, took on Mosley-twice, Vargas, Hopkins, and of course, Mayweather, big, risky fights all with hardly a stone unturned between 147 and 160 asides from a then obscure Winky Wright, and kept trying to look for big fights.

It's just wierd, and I'm a bit frustrated that my hero isn't gonna be able to be regarded as the all-time great he should have been. Somehow though, Oscar can make amends for his career if he decides to fight the Cotto/Margarito winner and win. I want it to happen. Even a last stand to one of those younger bulls would restore that luster to Oscar in everyone's eyes. A win makes him a true legend.

[mattc25]

Originally Posted by Salvy_Mic

To be honest, I'm glad he's not fighting Oscar again, considering how boring the first fight was. Mayweather has an enormous ego, but that's usually trumped by his love of money, which was the sole reason he was fighting Oscar again. The reason Mayweather retired is because he can't handle boxing fans criticizing him for talking about wanting to rematch Oscar and Hatton, fights he already won, while dismissing guys like Cotto and Margarito as "not being on his level and thus, not worthy of his time". When the fans called bullshit on that, Mayweather's ego didn't know how to handle it. So he retired, where he won't need to deal with it.

Screw him. Oscar de la Hoya was never as talented as Mayweather, nor did he win many of his big fights, but one thing Oscar never did was duck a dangerous fighter. Do you think Mayweather would have moved all the way up to middleweight to fight Hopkins? Do you think Mayweather would have fought a dangerous guy like Ike Quartey, with the knowledge that a virtually assured huge money fight with Felix Trinidad could get blown with a loss? Do you think Mayweather would have given Fernando Vargas a shot at him, even though he suffered a loss to Trinidad? Do you think Mayweather would have ever fought a prime, dangerous Shane Mosley who didn't have anywhere the big name that Oscar had? I don't think so. And that's why Oscar gets the love (not from the hardcore, mind you) he does and Mayweather doesn't.

Granted, the Oscar of late deserves the criticism he gets from the hardcore. He's guilty of being the huge pink elephant in the room, distracting fighters in and around his weight class of from not fighting other quality opposition in hopes of landing a big fight with him, while Oscar hasn't been an elite fighter for some time. Not to mention some of the promotional shenanigans he's gotten caught up with as of late (the runaround Golden Boy's been giving Nate Campbell, the whole Pacquiao affair, and the poaching of the best boxers to fight under his banner while not developing his own stars like Arum). Mayweather will undoubtedly go down as the greatest boxer of this generation. He should, too, probably just on what he did at 130 and 135. But ever since he moved up to 140, his legacy has suffered until the past year because he took questionable fights and ducked big fights when they could have been made. He should have fought Hatton at 140 when both were coming off big wins over respected titlists (the Tszyu and Gatti wins). He should have fought Margarito when he became the welterweight champion after already beating Judah and Baldomir. And most of all, he should have fought Cotto. That's the sort of shit he'll be remembered for.

Sugar Ray Leonard, before he retired the first time, fought HUGE fights with Wilfred Benitez, Roberto Duran, and Thomas Hearns, at times when Benitez was undoubtedly the best welterweight in the world, when Duran was undoubtedly the best figher in the world, and when Hearns was undoubtedly the most dangerous welterweight in the world and a bad stylistic matchup. Ask yourself, do you think Mayweather would have done all that?

...nice post I agree 100% rep`d