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[Nate_Deezy]

And I agree that Leben would look sloppy in a typical sense. But I just think that his style of defending isn't the traditional "block" style lol. The dude has a chin made of granite. I personally think he defends like he does just to frustrate his opponents when they can't knock him out. And that works til he gets in there with a crazy striker like Anderson Silva. Love him or hate him, I think Leben always makes for an exciting fight.

But back to the topic, I am a huge fan of lister. But his boxing was sloppy as hell at the end of the second round and he almost got ktfo. Next time he fights, he needs to be smarter about cutting weight, or just not show up.

[Nate_Deezy]

Wait why did I reply right there? My post was like 2 pages ago lol. That comment was in response to....

Originally Posted by dagreat1

You're actually wrong man. Sasaki is used to the bog stage, he is a Pancrase veteran who has also fought in PRIDE which is certainly a much bigger stage than UFC as you are fighting in front of 50,000+ people and not the 10,000-20,000 like UFC.

Watching the fight, it is very difficult to knock Lister in the fight, my only criticism would be that he was not patient in working the submission and it nearly cost him the fight. He underestimated the submission defense of Sasaki which was Lister's own fault, Sasaki is a Pancrase vet obviously versed in subs and sub defense.

The difference in the Lister and the Leben fight was that Lister looked sharp for the first 2 rounds and then gassed via his own fault for not ebing patient but Leben looked sloppy the entire fight.

I just don' see him ever holding a title or getting a title shot.

Watching Leben and watching Swick, I would put the house on Swick to dominate Leben in a rematch. Leben is not learning at a fast enough pace or he has possibly reached his potential and this is it, nothing against him, I always enjoy his fights but he is looking really sloppy right now, I think with relentless training he could become a great fighter as the chin and heavy hands can take you very far but you must also be able to move well in the ring and he is unable to right now. Only time will tell with him, right now I have mixed feelings.

Should probably check the page number before I post next time....

[duran]

Lister should stay at 205. He looked strange at 185. WHen he walked into the O it looked like a lightweight with a Dean Lister head on. He will do just as well, probably better, at the heavier weight, and be more popular because he will perform better because he has more gas, and be more comfortable in the whole process. As other posters pointed out, Dean Lister is good, but he will never get a title shot. The stock he gained from all the TUF 3 guys he coached saying that he was an awesome coach dipped a little with the UFN performance. He's fallen into the trap that many wrestlers have - thinking that the lower you go, the better you will be. The problem is, you drop weight to the point of diminishing returns. He's good enough to earn a damn good living at 205.

[Mac]

Originally Posted by duran

Lister should stay at 205. He looked strange at 185. WHen he walked into the O it looked like a lightweight with a Dean Lister head on. He will do just as well, probably better, at the heavier weight, and be more popular because he will perform better because he has more gas, and be more comfortable in the whole process. As other posters pointed out, Dean Lister is good, but he will never get a title shot. The stock he gained from all the TUF 3 guys he coached saying that he was an awesome coach dipped a little with the UFN performance. He's fallen into the trap that many wrestlers have - thinking that the lower you go, the better you will be. The problem is, you drop weight to the point of diminishing returns. He's good enough to earn a damn good living at 205.

He will be fine at 185. He just needs to get used to it also he has a point that if he gets his normal weight down to 200 then cutting to 185 would be no big deal. Plus the comp at 185 is a lot weaker than 205.

[ortiz#1]

Originally Posted by AJL416AZ

when Lister fights someone who's not retarded enough to enter his guard and can throw punches, he'll get KTFO.
he's one-dimensional. his submission game is one of the best in the world, his other game definitely needs work

and who cares about him cutting weight. he's there to win, gassing because lack of water is not going to take the L off his record when he gets caught gasping for air and unable to pull the strength for the takedown

he got rocked multiple times in his fight, his hands low and chin stickin out. against a guy who has never won a fight by (t)ko

have you ever cut weight before? if you are droping a weight class you have to do it right and stay at a certain weight , lister says he drop to quick he made a mistake in his droping down you will see a top notch dean in his next fight, the guy in a grappling god he is also very big for 185 so he will find a way to get it to the mat plus his stand up will only get better, he could be the champ someday!!!

[ortiz#1]

Originally Posted by duran

Lister should stay at 205. He looked strange at 185. WHen he walked into the O it looked like a lightweight with a Dean Lister head on. He will do just as well, probably better, at the heavier weight, and be more popular because he will perform better because he has more gas, and be more comfortable in the whole process. As other posters pointed out, Dean Lister is good, but he will never get a title shot. The stock he gained from all the TUF 3 guys he coached saying that he was an awesome coach dipped a little with the UFN performance. He's fallen into the trap that many wrestlers have - thinking that the lower you go, the better you will be. The problem is, you drop weight to the point of diminishing returns. He's good enough to earn a damn good living at 205.

you are not very bright dean at 185 will be perfect for him he is 6 foot he has a perfect 185 build 205 in to big those guys are like 230 before they cut weight much stronger , to hard for him he would do all right at 205 but he can be a champ at 185, his first fight was not that bad gassed in the third due to coming down to fast thats it give the guy a couple fights at 185 first

[the ruler]

230 er i think is pushin it but most are 5 to 10 lbs over and cut down ....

Lister was lookin good aside from the cardio problems that happens to most fighters their first time cuttin weight , the team he works with is highly regarded for their cardio , so to think lister won't fix the problem in his future fights is well , kinda stupid , and too call argueablely the best grappler in the world overrated is f**kin halirous...

I gave up on Riggs before this fight , but when he came in he looked like he was incredible shape , infact the best shape I ever saw him in and his performance was great.... if he can stay in that kinda shape he may start to rake in the wins ...to me his next fight will say alot .....

[ortiz#1]

Originally Posted by the ruler

230 er i think is pushin it but most are 5 to 10 lbs over and cut down ....

Lister was lookin good aside from the cardio problems that happens to most fighters their first time cuttin weight , the team he works with is highly regarded for their cardio , so to think lister won't fix the problem in his future fights is well , kinda stupid , and too call argueablely the best grappler in the world overrated is f**kin halirous...

I gave up on Riggs before this fight , but when he came in he looked like he was incredible shape , infact the best shape I ever saw him in and his performance was great.... if he can stay in that kinda shape he may start to rake in the wins ...to me his next fight will say alot .....

forrest weight 225 when he started training for tito, chuck weights 230 befor he starts to come down ass look a tuf 1 bobby s. cut 20lbs to make 205

[Legend]

I want to see Lister at 185 again before i start calling him overated and Riggs is only 23 so he really just needs time to mature as a fighter and as a man.

[the ruler]

Originally Posted by ortiz#1

forrest weight 225 when he started training for tito, chuck weights 230 befor he starts to come down ass look a tuf 1 bobby s. cut 20lbs to make 205

When bobby was 20 lbs over weight was due to him being retired before going on TUF , I thought.

Chick might weight 230 before he starts training for a fight , but lose 15 while training and cuts 10 but no way Chuk cuts 25 pounds before a fight and I don't think Forrest cuts 20 lbs before a fight , look when he was on TUF( Forrest) he was weighing 209 and cuttin 4 lbs i belive , so again it wouldn't be unreasonalbe to assumeme he loses 10lbs and cuts the rest .
But I don't know anyof these guys, its just cuttin weight take from your cardio so I don't understand why top level athletes woulld cut 20 lbs before a fight