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[Conman]

I agree, I thought Karo was going to break Diego's neck with a couple of those throws! This is where the 10 point must system sucks, I'd call round 1 a draw, 2 goes to Faro and 3 to Diego (not a 10-8 for god's sake) and say lets go one more round. Although at the time Karo was gassed and I imagine (but you never know) that Diego would;ve taken Round 4!

Did Karo get a finger in the eye or poked right under at teh beginning of the fight. When he was on his back he looked at the ref and he looked pissed like he got poked or soemthing, more than "hurt" from a punch!

[Masscore]

I have to see it again, but it looked to me like it was an uppercut that landed right in the soft part under his eye.

[Hypergit]

At least you didn't try to defend your belief that round 1 was clearly Diego's - lol.

Originally Posted by Masscore

I have said this 1000 times in the past couple of days. Rule One when fighitng a wrestler, never give them your back.

Diego did absolutely zero damage whilst on Karo's back. So much for that 'rule'

Originally Posted by Masscore

If that had been Kos, Hughes, or Sherk, the fight would have been over in the 2 minutes. Sanchez just isnt a top of the line wrestler like those three.

Even if that were so, he wasn't fighting them was he? He was fighting Diego, and giving up his back was a tactic that worked *very* well. If and when he fights a better wrestler maybe he will change his tactics, maybe not. Why speculate?

Originally Posted by Masscore

You guys need to get over that Judo shit. It didnt work well for Hideoko(sp?) against Cro Cop and it didnt work well against Sanchez.

No - You and especially Annihalus need to get over this generalization shit.

git.

[Masscore]

Originally Posted by Hypergit

Diego did absolutely zero damage whilst on Karo's back. So much for that 'rule'


No - You and especially Annihalus need to get over this generalization shit.

git.

First Diego did no damage?!?!? Did you see Karo's face, most of that damage was done on the ground. He nearly choked Karo out in the 3rd too when he had his back. So yea, Diego won the fight because he had Karo's back and held dominating postioning. Which if i remember correctly is something they score on.

Finally, how many champs right now, or ever have had Judo backgrounds. Most champions and succesful fighters have Mauy Thai, BJJ or Wrestling backgrounds. Yea throws look pretty and are amazing. But just like I say to the wrestlers I coach, unless you can hold the guy down after you do it, dont it. Double legs, single legs, ankle picks are all way better techniques then throws.

[Hypergit]

Originally Posted by Masscore

First Diego did no damage?!?!? Did you see Karo's face, most of that damage was done on the ground. He nearly choked Karo out in the 3rd too when he had his back. So yea, Diego won the fight because he had Karo's back and held dominating postioning. Which if i remember correctly is something they score on..

I believe the early cut was from standup, however Diego did dominate him on the ground in round 3 when he was tired. You must be correct that having an opponent's back is scored highly in mma, because this is the only criteria that could give the fight to Diego, along with last impressions.

Perhaps this is unfair though? This is the last time I'll beat this horse, but Karo gave up his back because he prefered that position - it suits his style and experience better. Imo, he should not be killed in the scoring merely because of his defensive tactics. That's another thread though.

Originally Posted by Masscore

Finally, how many champs right now, or ever have had Judo backgrounds. Most champions and succesful fighters have Mauy Thai, BJJ or Wrestling backgrounds. Yea throws look pretty and are amazing. But just like I say to the wrestlers I coach, unless you can hold the guy down after you do it, dont it. Double legs, single legs, ankle picks are all way better techniques then throws.

This is a tangent, but I'd say there are several Judo practicioners fighting in Japan although undoubtedly less than JJ/wrestling. Perhaps it is the prominance of gi throws in Judo, or it's general ethos and practicioner base that causes this. Whatever the case, it cannot be denied that it is a highly effective grappling art and, in the spirit of mma, its principles should not be considered better of worse than the other arts - just different. Complementary even - imagine Judo mixed with wrestling and JJ - I suppose you'd end up with Sambo like Fedor

git.

[Hypergit]

Originally Posted by Masscore

Double legs, single legs, ankle picks are all way better techniques then throws.

Upon rewatching the fight, I am giving round 1 to Karo and scoring it 29-28 Karo overall. I can't be bothered debating this further but I really don't like your comment here, and in answer to the thread's question - yes I believe Karo is more skilled than Diego.

Ask a Gracie, and JJ is all you need.

Ask a wrestler and their art is superior.

Although the Japanese are very polite, I imagine a die-hard judoka would see their grappling form as superior too.

The fact is, as I alluded to with my Fedor comment, you need a bit of all three to be a complete grappler. No single TMA is flawless - end of story. In fact, only the ignorant could believe otherwise.

[Kewl144]

Easily Diego's win. He had better positions (a lot of reversals) overall, did more damage, and was more aggressive.

[Hypergit]

I fail to see which round other than 3 you could 'easily' give to Diego.

[Kewl144]

Originally Posted by Hypergit

I fail to see which round other than 3 you could 'easily' give to Diego.

Round 2 was Diego's. Diego had a sweep (reversal), almost a knee bar, take down, a lot of body shots (which do count you know ), avoided another judo throw, and took Karo's back. What did Karo do? 2 take downs without really landing anything when Diego was on his back. Neither fighter landed very convincing punches while on their feet.

[Hypergit]

While I accept that you feel round 2 was Diego's, and respect your opinion...

If you think round 2 (or 1) was easily Diego's, you must have been doing this :banghead: since birth. No offence.

git.