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[pa99fighter]

Originally Posted by Noob

Tito is not #3. Hasn't been for a long time, and even the recent string of upsets couldn't push him back up that far. Nor can taking Rashad to a decision draw.


LHW's that should be ranked above Tito:

Rampage
Henderson
Wanderlei
Shogun
Sokodjou
Machida
Forrest Griffin
Nogueira


Fighters I could see an argument for:

Liddell (hard to call because he has just dropped two fights in a row)
Arona (lost 3 of his last 4 fights)




There's probably somebody that I'm missing. And you can make some argument for Tito having the advantage of having fought in the cage for the majority of his career.


But the fact remains that aside from split decisions over Griffin and Belfort he hasn't had a victory over anyone of consequence since at least 2002, maybe earlier.


Last Tito victories :


Ken Shamrock - (twice)
Forrest Griffin - (split decision)
Vitor Belfort - (split decision)
Patrick Cote - (decision)
Ken Shamrock - (again)
Vladimir Matyushenko - (5 round decision)
Elvis Sinosic - (2001)
Evan Tanner - (2001)



And that's not including the losses to Randy, Chuck twice, and a draw with Rashad. Vladimir would be a toss-up, but beating Shamrock at this stage in his career and taking Cote to a decision are not impressive outings. So the last impressive victory he has had was Evan Tanner in Febuary of 2001, 6 1/2 years ago.


Since 2003 he has gone 5-3-1, with two wins against senior citizen competition (with a 2-7 record in his own last 9 fights). That's not a top-flight resume, and definitely not worthy of a #3 spot in the rankings. Really, aside from decisioning two TUFers and a Belfort that hasn't been what he once was in years, he hasn't beaten anyone since Matyushenko in a 5 round decision in 2001.


Styles make fights, and Tito might stand a good chance of beating a couple of the people that should be ranked above him. I personally think he would give Arona a hard time, and he might even be cautious enough to take Hendo to a decision. It's possible. But that in no way means he deserves a #3 ranking. Just doesn't.

My bad for the double posting but Tito is deffinenetly top 3 in the UFC.
Chuck has lost his last 2 fights in a row so tito's above him in my book. Shogun has never done shit in the ufc so im not counting him above tito for getting gassed in the 2nd round against Griffin.
Jardine is an up and down fighter you never know how good he is so id like to see them fight.
Dan Henderson beat Carlos Newton via Split decision and beat Gose via decision but that was in 1998. recently in the ufc Henderson lost to Rampage so what is Henderson 0-1 in the ufc in the past 9 years. He beat Wanderlei Silva before and Wanderlei is coming off of 2 losses in Pride.
Wanderlei is 1 and 2 in the UFC so basically he goes from mediocre in ufc to unstoppable in pride even tho I admit hes gotten way better.
Sokodjou and lil nog arent signed with the UFC.
Machida is 1 spot less at number 4 to me. and Griffin and Ortiz can go either way I give it to Griffin b/c I thought he beat Tito and he shocked the world with shogun.

so my top 5 UFC lhw's are
#1. Rampage
#2. Griffin
#3. Ortiz
#4. Machida
#5 and 6 tied. Liddell and Jardine

[Noob]

Originally Posted by grapplerguy21

Shogun has never done shit in the ufc so im not counting him above tito for getting gassed in the 2nd round against Griffin.

But he is in the UFC. Therefore he would be counted in the rankings. That's like saying that just because Peyton Manning might get traded to the Lions that he wouldn't be the best quarterback because he hadn't taken a snap yet.


Shogun's resume > Tito's resume.

Originally Posted by grapplerguy21

Dan Henderson beat Carlos Newton via Split decision and beat Gose via decision but that was in 1998. recently in the ufc Henderson lost to Rampage so what is Henderson 0-1 in the ufc in the past 9 years. He beat Wanderlei Silva before and Wanderlei is coming off of 2 losses in Pride.

That is awful MMA math, and Hendo beat Newton via decision, but not a split decision.


And after the Newton fight, Henderson went 18-6, with losses to Wand, Arona, Nogueira (2x), and Misaki. During that times he beat Gilbert Yvel, Nogueira, Babalu, Renzo Gracie, 'Ninja' Rua, Murilo Bustamante, Nakamura, Gono, Belfort, and Wand.


No matter what MMA math you put together, Henderson should always be ranked above Tito for the time being. UFC, Pride, NBC, Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots, Hendo is ranked above Tito.

Originally Posted by grapplerguy21

Wanderlei is 1 and 2 in the UFC so basically he goes from mediocre in ufc to unstoppable in pride even tho I admit hes gotten way better.

Your arguments make no sense. Rankings are not judged by only the fights within that org. They are done off of a fighter's accomplishments in all organizations.


If that were the case, and we based fighters only on what they did in one org, Wandy and Chuck would never have fought because their records suck in the opposing organizations. Rampage and Hendo would not have fought, because neither of them had sterling UFC records. Anderson Silva would not have fought for the title in his second fight in the UFC. The list would be enormous. Just doesn't work that way.


I won't even take the time to list off Wandy's vs. Tito's accomplishments in the last 5 years.


Wand should likely still be ranked above Tito, even coming off of two losses.

Originally Posted by grapplerguy21

so my top 5 UFC lhw's are
#1. Rampage
#2. Griffin
#3. Ortiz
#4. Machida
#5 and 6 tied. Liddell and Jardine

I just don't even know what to say to that. I am honestly taken aback at your train of thinking.


Tito is not, and should not be #3. On any ranking, UFC or not.

[twankydawg]

Originally Posted by grapplerguy21

Tito all day your #3 lhw in the ufc behind Quinton and Griffin. no lie im serious. dont neg me for this but im up for an argument about it lol

Dude, you've got to be kidding me, just stop, stop right now, please.

Originally Posted by grapplerguy21

My bad for the double posting but Tito is deffinenetly top 3 in the UFC.
Chuck has lost his last 2 fights in a row so tito's above him in my book. Shogun has never done shit in the ufc so im not counting him above tito for getting gassed in the 2nd round against Griffin.
Jardine is an up and down fighter you never know how good he is so id like to see them fight.
Dan Henderson beat Carlos Newton via Split decision and beat Gose via decision but that was in 1998. recently in the ufc Henderson lost to Rampage so what is Henderson 0-1 in the ufc in the past 9 years. He beat Wanderlei Silva before and Wanderlei is coming off of 2 losses in Pride.
Wanderlei is 1 and 2 in the UFC so basically he goes from mediocre in ufc to unstoppable in pride even tho I admit hes gotten way better.
Sokodjou and lil nog arent signed with the UFC.
Machida is 1 spot less at number 4 to me. and Griffin and Ortiz can go either way I give it to Griffin b/c I thought he beat Tito and he shocked the world with shogun.

so my top 5 UFC lhw's are
#1. Rampage
#2. Griffin
#3. Ortiz
#4. Machida
#5 and 6 tied. Liddell and Jardine

No no no no noooooooo...........

[pa99fighter]

Originally Posted by Noob

But he is in the UFC. Therefore he would be counted in the rankings. That's like saying that just because Peyton Manning might get traded to the Lions that he wouldn't be the best quarterback because he hadn't taken a snap yet.

no for shogun its like coming from arena football league with different rules even tho its still football to the nfl.

Originally Posted by Noob

No matter what MMA math you put together, Henderson should always be ranked above Tito for the time being. UFC, Pride, NBC, Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots, Hendo is ranked above Tito.

Tito has a mean rock n sock em robots game lol. if they fight ill bet anything on Tito in this just to prove u wrong im not going to restate what I said

Originally Posted by Noob

Your arguments make no sense. Rankings are not judged by only the fights within that org. They are done off of a fighter's accomplishments in all organizations.

Ask Cro Cop your next hw champ



and in the UFC just UFC I have Tito above all those guys.

[jrube]

I would LOVE to see this fight, and watch Tito cower against that cage and give up like he did with Chuck. That would make my whole year!!! Wandy now would absolutely destroy the heartless Tito... I say its time for Tito to quit fighting and focus on a sex change operation so he can do girl/girl movies with his skanky girlfriend Jenna.


umm... thats all i have to say about that.

[maxp84z]

I think Chuck/Silva should still happen at NEW years eve.... I mean, what if Chuck loses a 3rd time to someone like Vernon White? LMAO... DO IT NOW!!! (Same thing for Silva)

[TravelinMonty]

Originally Posted by grapplerguy21

My bad for the double posting but Tito is deffinenetly top 3 in the UFC.
Chuck has lost his last 2 fights in a row so tito's above him in my book. Shogun has never done shit in the ufc so im not counting him above tito for getting gassed in the 2nd round against Griffin.
Jardine is an up and down fighter you never know how good he is so id like to see them fight.
Dan Henderson beat Carlos Newton via Split decision and beat Gose via decision but that was in 1998. recently in the ufc Henderson lost to Rampage so what is Henderson 0-1 in the ufc in the past 9 years. He beat Wanderlei Silva before and Wanderlei is coming off of 2 losses in Pride.
Wanderlei is 1 and 2 in the UFC so basically he goes from mediocre in ufc to unstoppable in pride even tho I admit hes gotten way better.
Sokodjou and lil nog arent signed with the UFC.
Machida is 1 spot less at number 4 to me. and Griffin and Ortiz can go either way I give it to Griffin b/c I thought he beat Tito and he shocked the world with shogun.

so my top 5 UFC lhw's are
#1. Rampage
#2. Griffin
#3. Ortiz
#4. Machida
#5 and 6 tied. Liddell and Jardine

Good post. Sound logic. The bottom line is as far as rankings go, your last fight is what counts the most and if you've only had one fight in the org... guess what, that's going to weigh even more heavily. Where should crocop be ranked? Shogun and Hendo are one fight away from a similar situation.

If you are champ and you get beat, you are knocked down the ranks. Thats what happens... you lose and you drop, you win you go up. Rankings are not the same as who the best fighter is... rankings are based on records not ability.

[kingrobert]

Originally Posted by TravelinMonty

wrong.

Wanderlei has lost 2 in a row. It is his first fight in the UFC. I would say Tito is pretty high up on the food chain considering all the other Pride big boys' debuts except for Hendo. And not to mention Rashad is undefeated.

Everyone makes a big deal about Wandy loosing 2 in a row but its not like he lost to bums. Dan Henderson should be fighting at 185 and is still probably just behind Rampage at 205. Cro Cop isnt a bum either. Shit before he came to the UFC he was pretty much unbeatable.
Wandy would kill Jardine. Jardine made Chuck look old and slow and Wandy would destroy chuck. Tito could beat anyone if he trained as hard as he used 2.

[Kealoha]

I would love to see chuck fight silva but i dont think its goona happen since chucks loss against jardine I think silva will fight either Jardine or forrest since they both won high profile fights

[b0sH]

Tito top3? No no no no.......................no


I'm not a tito hater by any means, he's a very competent top10 LHW fighter, he's a stage above the likes of Bisping, Arona but a stage below Rampage, Hendo etc.

I dont count him out vs Wandy though. I don't think even with Titos ego he would try and bang with him but would go for the takedowns. If Tito choses to use his best weapon of wrestling and G & P he has a decent chance. Wandy can't be overly comfortable in the cage yet and Tito is a master of limiting your movement and positioning by using the walls of the cage against you. If he can secure a takedown and control I don't know what Wandy would do to counter it.

However if it stays on the feet, I hope Tito's insurance is paid up.