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[bmore_aki]

Originally Posted by smoogy

I agree with what has been said already: the most viable way to beat Chuck would be to take him out of his striking game with takedowns and groundwork, and barring that, only a striker on equal footing with Chuck who manages to put together one of the fights of his life could take him down. The MMA world has a pretty well defined elite class when it comes to LHW. The guys who would stand a reasonable chance with the Iceman, in my opinion, are:

-Rampage
-Wanderlei Silva
-Shogun
-Arona
-Randy Couture (If he were super determined to come back and beat another LHW contender first)

I'd agree to your list except Randy Couture. Sorry, though he'd kick the snot out of most guys on the planet...i think his time of beating top ranking MMA guys has pass. The guys you named would make for dream matchups with Chuck. I wonder if any of these guys actaully believe they could keep the fight on their feet and still win?

Originally Posted by bmore_aki

Easier said than done...

At this stage of his career, it should go without saying to beat Chuck Liddell, you have to be better than he is. I don't see luck being a big factor in a victory over him. You can either be a better boxing/standup fighter than him (which there aren't many MMA fighters who are) or you have to get him on the ground and take him out of his specialty.

Like I said, there aren't many MMA light-heavies out there who can stand up with the Ice Man. So I'm not even going to fantasize about that one!

First I want to say, I have a background in collegiate wrestling, judo and aikido. So I'm borrowing from those experiences to help guide me on my takedown suggestions.

Obviously Chuck is no slough on the ground, you don't get to this level and not be well-rounded enough to handle yourself in all facets of a fight. But just as his standing skills are far superior to most of his opponents so to can someone's ground game be far superior to his. Its just a fact.

How do you get him on the ground and out of his specialty?

You have two options:

1. Shoot on his legs from mid-range distance or
2. Attempt throws/takedowns from the grapple.

Because of Liddells' ability to sprawl to avoid shot attempts and his ability to counter a shot attempt (wicked counter right uppercut and knees) I'd train more for ankle sweeps on his lead foot. I'd not advice a double leg shot from mid to far range on Liddell, as it can be countered to easily by him.

I believe more success would come from takedowns while grappling. From boxing we know that even the most dangerous puncher can be tied up in a clinch. This tactic was used to prolong a match between Frank Bruno and Mike Tyson (in his prime). Of course Bruno lost cause he didn't have any other choices of attack from the tie-up position. If worked on, it could be utilized in a fight against Liddell just as well.

From the clinch the wrestler has the option of a fireman's carry, a double leg takedown or an ankle pick. The double leg takedown should be followed with a forceful pickup and slam. There are also Greco-Roman throws to be considered. A Judo/Jujitsu practitioner should look for sweeps, trips and hip throws.

Of course if you attempt to clinch and Liddell gets frustrated and attempts his own take down. For a submission guy, this is still ideal. A wrestler who ground and pounds needs to out muscle Chuck and turn the tables without letting him get up.

Either way, taking it to the ground is still the odds-on-favorite strategy to get a win over Liddell. God help the guy who thinks he can slug it out with the Ice Man (ouch Sobral...).

T|N|P- In order to beat the "ICEMAN" you dont really need a game plan. If you watch carefully at chuck you can see he relies on knockouts wich uses timeing of the punch. When he swings most fighters close thier eyes b/c of counters, now if you time the punch right say for ex. fake a take down let him swing then at the right moment shoot as the punch is thrown. Which clearly catches the best kickboxers, boxers, etc. off gaurd. But the thing with most wrestlers is they dont follow threw with the take down their technique and the execution of the take down is worthless. See when Randy beat chuck it was flawless perfect takedowns, being the agressor, and not really letting Chuck do his thing, and thats what its takes to beat Chuck is being the agressor. If you watched the Renato n Chuck fight, Chuck was surprized when Sobral started coming after him and landed some good shots now if Sobral was smart as Chuck was kind of in a daze he would of went for a take downn like i said, being the agressor. In Renatos case though he wanted a knockout, revenge and thats what break fighters is revenge and emotions. Now my secret to winning a fight, match, or any event is to have fun and the most important thing is being relaxed!!!! Fighters like Babalu, Andrei, Bonnar, Shamrock they all want it so bad they lose focus for what they really want and just lose it. So any way thats how you beat Chuck,plan ahead watch his hands oh and the most affective take down on Liddell would be either an ankle pick or a inside leg trip. N i know this b/c im a wrestler and fighter and i pay real close attention to these things.

[dalandlou]

T|N|P- In order to beat the "ICEMAN" you dont really need a game plan. If you watch carefully at chuck you can see he relies on knockouts wich uses timeing of the punch. When he swings most fighters close thier eyes b/c of counters, now if you time the punch right say for ex. fake a take down let him swing then at the right moment shoot as the punch is thrown. Which clearly catches the best kickboxers, boxers, etc. off gaurd. But the thing with most wrestlers is they dont follow threw with the take down their technique and the execution of the take down is worthless. See when Randy beat chuck it was flawless perfect takedowns, being the agressor, and not really letting Chuck do his thing, and thats what its takes to beat Chuck is being the agressor. If you watched the Renato n Chuck fight, Chuck was surprized when Sobral started coming after him and landed some good shots now if Sobral was smart as Chuck was kind of in a daze he would of went for a take downn like i said, being the agressor. In Renatos case though he wanted a knockout, revenge and thats what break fighters is revenge and emotions. Now my secret to winning a fight, match, or any event is to have fun and the most important thing is being relaxed!!!! Fighters like Babalu, Andrei, Bonnar, Shamrock they all want it so bad they lose focus for what they really want and just lose it. So any way thats how you beat Chuck,plan ahead watch his hands oh and the most affective take down on Liddell would be either an ankle pick or a inside leg trip. N i know this b/c im a wrestler and fighter and i pay real close attention to these things.

dude, the fact that you think Sobral wanted the knockout...just...no. No. That's a bad 'Next Prodigy'. And I know that you "know this b/c im a wrestler and fighter and i pay real close attention to these things" and stuff, but..uh...shuddup.

To beat Chuck you only actually need two things: Pride to let go of just one fighter and Wanderlei Silva to be that fighter.

The End.

[bigc]

right now i dont how you can beat him i would say you have to be one hell of a striker and you have to have great defense and an awesome chin thats the only way you might beat him

[NinjaShogunRua]

How to beat Chuck Liddell? Send him back to PRIDE. More legit challengers there. It won't happen, but it would be nice!

[dagreat1]

You must place him in a fight with world class fighters....

1) Silva
2) Shogun
3) Little Nog
4) Arona

That is how you defeat Chuck...

And no, it is not easy to say this because none of them fight in the UFC, it is easy to say this because they are the best LHW fighters in the world Chuck included (watch all of their fights, you will understand why they are the best). Those 5 are by far better than the next 5 that round out the LHW world rankings.

Also Melvin Manhoef from Cage Rage would give Chuck a difficult fight as melvin is a world class kickboxer with devistating power and in his 14 wins 13 of them are KO/TKO.

In a nut shell, Chuck needs to fight "well rounded fighters" or "world class strikers" and the "well rounded fighters" need to consist of fighters with great chins and standup like the above mentioned names and NOT Babalu (as his chin and his striking are nowhere near anyone on the above list) or Tito.

Chuck knows who his real competition is as does Sylvia, as does Franklin, as will Sherk. I am not saying the Pride fighters would win all of the fights or that they are for a fact better fighters, I am simply saying the UFC champions that are not being tested and the champions that are being tested still know that the top Pride fighters in their respective weight classes are some of the best in the world.

International talent is the key word. The US simply does not house the best fighters in the world, they house "some" of the best but it would just be ignorant to think that countries like Brazil, Russia and Japan where the kids began fighting and training at ages 10 are not goign to be some of the best in the world.

Dana White would have some of those fighters if he would pay them what Pride does as trust me, some of those top fighters would love to come to UFC and hold a belt as in HW they have a much better chance at Sylvia than Fedor, MW Hendo is falling off but Filho is stepping up (Kang would certainly have a great chance at KO'ing Franklin) as Anderson Silva was not at all the top guy in Pride, he was around top 5 and he goes to UFC and is all of a sudden #1 contender and is given a very good chance at becoming champion.

[Afro]

hey dagreat im stuck here, is Tito a world class fighter?

[dagreat1]

Originally Posted by Afro Samurai

hey dagreat im stuck here, is Tito a world class fighter?

He is a world class wrestler for certain, his cardio is unreal and he has some of the nastiest GNP but his standup is not very good. He is not all that well rounded but if Chuck was not in the picture I think would clear out the UFC LHW division and IMO he would beat Sobral.

His fight with Forrest was deceaving, the first round was what Tito does to fighters, the second and 3rd round seemed to me more the result of the heavily wrapped knee and him not being able to train like he needed to coming into the fight as Tito normally does not gass and especially in the 2nd round of a fight.

I think he would be in trouble in Pride because of all the great strikers and well rounded fighters there. As far as top 10 in the world at LHW I would put him with Randleman, Melvin Manoef and Matt Lindland at #11, #12, #13 and #14. LHW is by far the best division in the world when names like those are sitting at 11-14 (IMO).

So to answer the world class fighter it is a toss up, after UFC 65 we will know but as of right now he beat Forrest and Shamrock (soon to be a 3rd time) so I don't know what Tito is capable of right now. A few years ago I would certainly say yes, he was a world class fighter, he has wins over some world class fighters (Silva not in his prime at the time but his Vitor victory was in Vitor's prime, look at what kind of shape Vitor was in compared to how he looked in Pride).

[Afro]

Originally Posted by dagreat1

He is a world class wrestler for certain, his cardio is unreal and he has some of the nastiest GNP but his standup is not very good. He is not all that well rounded but if Chuck was not in the picture I think would clear out the UFC LHW division and IMO he would beat Sobral.

His fight with Forrest was deceaving, the first round was what Tito does to fighters, the second and 3rd round seemed to me more the result of the heavily wrapped knee and him not being able to train like he needed to coming into the fight as Tito normally does not gass and especially in the 2nd round of a fight.

I think he would be in trouble in Pride because of all the great strikers and well rounded fighters there. As far as top 10 in the world at LHW I would put him with Randleman, Melvin Manoef and Matt Lindland at #11, #12, #13 and #14. LHW is by far the best division in the world when names like those are sitting at 11-14 (IMO).

So to answer the world class fighter it is a toss up, after UFC 65 we will know but as of right now he beat Forrest and Shamrock (soon to be a 3rd time) so I don't know what Tito is capable of right now. A few years ago I would certainly say yes, he was a world class fighter, he has wins over some world class fighters (Silva not in his prime at the time but his Vitor victory was in Vitor's prime, look at what kind of shape Vitor was in compared to how he looked in Pride).

thats what I was thinkin.. lately Tito hasnt been at his A game either

I think his wrestling is great, and im dying to see if its better then Kevin Randlemans which I dont think it is.. I want to see those two fight bad.. I think Kevin would beat him.. Kevin Randlemans wrestling is superb if you ask me. I think Tito has the potential to be world class but we gotta see it.

[BigJoe111]

I think that everyone is missing the only way Chuck could be dominated and that would be by a JUDO guy on par with Karo. I think that Chuck wouldn't know what to do if a superior Judo fighter got a hold of him and started throwing him around. Chuck has great takedown defense but against a superior Judo man there is no defense for those throws. The only question is where could you find a guy like that at 205? The tight clinches of a Judo fighter would negate Chucks hands and if the other fighter had decent subs then I think it would be a short night for Chuck. On his feet he stands a very good chance of knocking out anyone put in front of him.