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[nevermind7ed]

i could see hughes getting a sub, but only by overpowering, probably after abit of a beat down. im pulling for penn, he's my favorite

[Punk Ass]

Originally Posted by kickass32

Hughes also had the "ground wizzard" Royce Gracie in the sub position, annnd if it were anyone else that fight ends in a sub as well.

Honestly I think that fight was a fluke, I think Royce took him lightly. Royce has fought better ground fighters than hughes namely Sakuraba, Yoshida, and other ground wizards in recent times. I think hughes just became the luckiest man in the world that day

[Afro]

Originally Posted by kickass32

Hughes also had the "ground wizzard" Royce Gracie in the sub position, annnd if it were anyone else that fight ends in a sub as well.

he never got the armbar locked in so had it been any other fighter I dont think it woulda been a sub, especially Penn plus you gotta realise that Hughes took Royce to the ground, exploited his weak standup.. things that he would have a whole lot harder time doing to Penn.. Hughes subbing Penn? I dont see AT ALL

Penn should be the favorite in this fight, I think if he brings his A game he wins cuz IMO hes the better fighter then Hughes

[Supe]

Originally Posted by kickass32

Hughes also had the "ground wizzard" Royce Gracie in the sub position, annnd if it were anyone else that fight ends in a sub as well.

Thank you. Im not taking anything away from Penn. He is an amazing fighter and sub artist but i think alot of people are selling Hughes short for getting caught by BJ the first time. Hughes is freakishly strong and capable of submitting anyone in his weightclass. Now he may not witn by sub, may not win at all. But to completely throw the chance of it happening is pretty naive. Also, everyone using the argument Penn wont get subbed/TKO due to the fact that it has never happened before is completely retarded. Noone ever came back from being down 3-0 in a MLB playoff series before, and boston took it to arguably one of the best baseball teams ever assembled. Just because something hasnt happened yet doesnt it mean it never will.

wear it

[nig_hughes]

Originally Posted by Supe

Thank you. Im not taking anything away from Penn. He is an amazing fighter and sub artist but i think alot of people are selling Hughes short for getting caught by BJ the first time. Hughes is freakishly strong and capable of submitting anyone in his weightclass. Now he may not witn by sub, may not win at all. But to completely throw the chance of it happening is pretty naive. Also, everyone using the argument Penn wont get subbed/TKO due to the fact that it has never happened before is completely retarded. Noone ever came back from being down 3-0 in a MLB playoff series before, and boston took it to arguably one of the best baseball teams ever assembled. Just because something hasnt happened yet doesnt it mean it never will.

wear it

excellent post. I totally agree with you. The way that Hughes may submit Penn is by brute strength, not finesse

[Afro]

Submissions are about leverage not strength.

[Supe]

yea strength plays no role in subs.....

[nig_hughes]

Originally Posted by Afro Samurai

Submissions are about leverage not strength.

granted. but someone with the strength of matt hughes can substitute some strength for some of that leverage if you know what i mean.

[Supe]

Originally Posted by nig_hughes

granted. but someone with the strength of matt hughes can substitute some strength for some of that leverage if you know what i mean.

Exactly. I could haev all the leverage in the fuckin world and im not pullin a Kimura on Fedor. Without a doubt position and leverage are key to positioning a sub, but if your opponent can simply curl your body weight because they are so much stronger, you aren't pulling shit.

[AudieMurphy1]

the submission itself is about leverage, getting into position for a submission is what requires strength