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[mattyc]

Originally Posted by singinkangaroooo

palma youre basing everything off of the first fight... i guess that maybe the most recent example of some of your points but it is really unfair to judge a fighter on a fight over 3 years ago... GSP has improved every aspect of his game... while we dont really know what Hughes has improved on over these years... his stand up is still piss poor and his wrestling has had to improve over the years but GSP's take downs and take down defense is probably better than what Hughes can throw at him... he has a good camp and is a great fighter...

if we are going to base our opinions on fights from the past lets compare the second fight between these two... Hughes was not able to do anything offensivly and got his head kicked off in the second round after being dropped and nearly finished in the first... based on that fight Hughes will be meat and his takedowns are horrible... see how that last part just sounded... that is not how this fight is going to go...

we just cant really say how it is going to go because it is going to be a completly different fight because both fighters are coming in with a different mental approach to this fight and different gameplans (more so on Hughes' side) ill say this all day everyday Hughes CAN win... it is just VERY unlikely... the thing that makes this fight is GSP can dictate where the fight goes.. he can take Matt down probably at will and has good enough defense to stop most of Matt's take downs

I agree with Palma. Though he's making reference to an older fight, I agree with the general idea. Though GSP has improved, it's debatable whether he can improve to the point where he can hang with Hughes on the ground, both on his back or in his guard. Hughes is a ground specialist, and as great as GSP's ground credentials are, I think the unproven one in the match is GSP. The first match between GSP and Hughes, I think, is more telling about the upcoming match because we can be fairly certain that Hughes won't try to stand and trade with GSP, and Hughes hasn't really trained at any other camp (aside from his own).

So, to me, the question is whether or not the new GSP has improved enough to beat the Hughes from their first fight. I give the edge to Hughes (even though I'm pulling for GSP).

[Palma]

Originally Posted by singinkangaroooo

palma youre basing everything off of the first fight... i guess that maybe the most recent example of some of your points but it is really unfair to judge a fighter on a fight over 3 years ago... GSP has improved every aspect of his game... while we dont really know what Hughes has improved on over these years... his stand up is still piss poor and his wrestling has had to improve over the years but GSP's take downs and take down defense is probably better than what Hughes can throw at him... he has a good camp and is a great fighter...

if we are going to base our opinions on fights from the past lets compare the second fight between these two... Hughes was not able to do anything offensivly and got his head kicked off in the second round after being dropped and nearly finished in the first... based on that fight Hughes will be meat and his takedowns are horrible... see how that last part just sounded... that is not how this fight is going to go...

we just cant really say how it is going to go because it is going to be a completly different fight because both fighters are coming in with a different mental approach to this fight and different gameplans (more so on Hughes' side) ill say this all day everyday Hughes CAN win... it is just VERY unlikely... the thing that makes this fight is GSP can dictate where the fight goes.. he can take Matt down probably at will and has good enough defense to stop most of Matt's take downs

We are talking about grappling and BJJ... In their second fight, they never touched the mat until Hughes was basically unconcious so they never had a chance to grapple. And based on GSP's last fight with Koscheck, he still has pisspoor BJJ Technique.

He couldn't get the Kimura going becuase he didn't know what he was doing and when Koscheck got him on his back all he could do was look up at the ceiling. These are great examples of how GSP has not improved his BJJ at all.

On the other hand you can look at Hughe's fight with Lytle. While Lytle isn't the best MMA fighter around he is one of the best BJJ blackbelts in the WW division. Hughes was on the ground withh him for 15 minutes and controlled another BJJ blackbelt with ease.

So of course I am going to by the first fight when they actually grappled as an example for what will happen if they actually grapple. GSP had better improved leaps and bounds since his fight with Koscheck and I can tell you right now thart he hasn't.

Hughes was preparring for Serra who is a BJJ moster. I'm sure his BJJ is better then it has ever been at this point.

As far as saying GSP is a better wrestler. You GSP fans are too much. He takes Hughes down one time and he is the better wrestler? Why do you think GSP never attempted a TD in their last fight? Because his suprise element of actually taking Hughes down was gone. If Hughes is expecting GSP to take him down then you are going to see who the better wrestler actually is.

[singinkangaroooo]

ok i will say that saying GSP is a better wrestler was too much and now that u explained ur point about the first fight i will admit to your point.. BUT GSP on top is still a force to be reckoned with... his complete desimation of Sherk (based on most recent time he spent on the ground besides BJ) was demonstration that he does have really good ground and pound... and based on Hughes' last fight with Lytle his ground game did not look very good at all.. that was an example of lay n pray and not superior BJJ..

while the first fight did show that Hughes does have good ground game it was a mistake GSP made due to lack of experience and now that he has that experience i think GSP >> Hughes on the ground... im sure he has been training his ground game alot at Jacksons camp so all i can say is the more i talk about this fight the more i am anticipating this because i really dont know how it is going to go..

[Palma]

Originally Posted by singinkangaroooo

ok i will say that saying GSP is a better wrestler was too much and now that u explained ur point about the first fight i will admit to your point.. BUT GSP on top is still a force to be reckoned with... his complete desimation of Sherk (based on most recent time he spent on the ground besides BJ) was demonstration that he does have really good ground and pound..

I completely agree with that. GSP's best weapon he has is brutal GNP.

Originally Posted by singinkangaroooo

and based on Hughes' last fight with Lytle his ground game did not look very good at all.. that was an example of lay n pray and not superior BJJ..

When you are fighting a BJJ practioner of that Caliber (I'm talking about Lytel) all you can do is fight for position because if you try to GnP or SUb a BJJ black belt without propper position then you will get subbed yourself. Even Serra (a BJJ world champ) could only jocky for position when he fought Lytle and if GSP fought Lytel it would be the same story.

Allot of people confuse LnP and battling for position. LnP is just trying to hold your opponent in one position form Gaurd to avoid damage and to win points by takedowns (like GSP did to BJ in there fight).

Battling for position is at least trying to do something with your percieved dominant position on top in some else's gaurd.

Originally Posted by singinkangaroooo

while the first fight did show that Hughes does have good ground game it was a mistake GSP made due to lack of experience and now that he has that experience i think GSP >> Hughes on the ground...

I think chalking up the armbar due to a mistake is an understatement. All combat sports are based on capitalizing your opponents mistakes or creating situations where your opponent will most like have to make a mistake to avoid something else.

GSP has never done anything in any fight to warrent him being called a better ground fighter then Hughes.

Originally Posted by singinkangaroooo

im sure he has been training his ground game alot at Jacksons camp so all i can say is the more i talk about this fight the more i am anticipating this because i really dont know how it is going to go..

I feel the same way. I am very torn on who to root for. I am a fan of GSP and I cannot stand Hughes, but (not talking about you) I am sick of all the biased GSP fans who make ridiculous claims about his abilities.

[kc56]

Originally Posted by Palma

I feel the same way. I am very torn on who to root for. I am a fan of GSP and I cannot stand Hughes, but (not talking about you) I am sick of all the biased GSP fans who make ridiculous claims about his abilities.

Yeah, I will be rooting for GSP. If it was Hughes vs Serra, I would root for Hughes.

I am cheering for GSP mainly because this one time, I saw GSP outwrestle a grizzly bear named amlaP!

Seriously, even as a GSP fan since day one, I have to agree with Palma. The majority of GSP fans overrate his stand-up and his BJJ. His 3 biggest assets are his size at WW, his athletic ability, and his GnP. With the right camp (and here is hoping it is Jackson's) he could eventually be the monster that some bandwagon fans claim he is.

War GSP!!

[singinkangaroooo]

Originally Posted by kc56

Seriously, even as a GSP fan since day one, I have to agree with Palma. The majority of GSP fans overrate his stand-up and his BJJ. His 3 biggest assets are his size at WW, his athletic ability, and his GnP. With the right camp (and here is hoping it is Jackson's) he could eventually be the monster that some bandwagon fans claim he is.

War GSP!!

i agree with you his BJJ is average but his stand up is great (not trying to overrate it but how he throws kicks like punches and how some of his punches feel like kicks its hard to deny its great) but you nailed it on the head with his top three strengths repd...

he is so big and strong most cannot handle that.. that is a big advantage i see over Fitch in that match up.. but Hughes is very strong as well so that is almost even slight nod to GSP.. his athletic ability is insane how quickly he has grown and adapted all parts of the game in incredible... and his GnP just speaks for its self

Originally Posted by Palma

When you are fighting a BJJ practioner of that Caliber (I'm talking about Lytel) all you can do is fight for position because if you try to GnP or SUb a BJJ black belt without propper position then you will get subbed yourself. Even Serra (a BJJ world champ) could only jocky for position when he fought Lytle and if GSP fought Lytel it would be the same story.

Allot of people confuse LnP and battling for position. LnP is just trying to hold your opponent in one position form Gaurd to avoid damage and to win points by takedowns (like GSP did to BJ in there fight).

Battling for position is at least trying to do something with your percieved dominant position on top in some else's gaurd.

ok i watched the fight again and yes i agree that fighting a BJJ black belt on the ground is very difficult and Hughes was fighting for position but i saw spots where he could have tried to pass but was too afraid to.. but valid point and point taken

Originally Posted by Palma

I think chalking up the armbar due to a mistake is an understatement. All combat sports are based on capitalizing your opponents mistakes or creating situations where your opponent will most like have to make a mistake to avoid something else.

well GSP said he overcommited for the kimura and the armbar was a result BUT you are very right in the fact that capitalizing on your opponents mistake is the key to almost anything in life buty especially combat sports..

lol im looking forward to the 29th more than Christmas itself.. this fight Wandy KOing Chuck and Soku in the UFC is just too much... what a great week next week will be

WAR UFC 79!!

[jlruthven84]

This is one of the best civil debates I've read in a long time on ANY thread. Good points all around.

To throw in my two cents, Hughes is going to come in much more prepared than he was for their last fight (and probably more prepared than he would've been had he fought Serra). Even so, I still don't see him beating GSP. I'm no nuthugger, but I just don't think anybody at WW, except maybe John Fitch, can realistically beat him right now. He seems to be at a good place mentally, and he can take anything Hughes can throw at him.

GSP by TKO, R2.

[singinkangaroooo]

Originally Posted by jlruthven84

This is one of the best civil debates I've read in a long time on ANY thread. Good points all around.

To throw in my two cents, Hughes is going to come in much more prepared than he was for their last fight (and probably more prepared than he would've been had he fought Serra). Even so, I still don't see him beating GSP. I'm no nuthugger, but I just don't think anybody at WW, except maybe John Fitch, can realistically beat him right now. He seems to be at a good place mentally, and he can take anything Hughes can throw at him.

GSP by TKO, R2.

most important "x-factor" of the fight... i agree his mental state is the double edged sword for Georges.. if he comes in with a clear mind and concetrated i agree he can beat ANYONE.. but with Serra i dont think he came in with the right mindset and there were other things nagging at him and it showed in his performance...

[The Man In Black]

this isn't hard to figure out, hughes has a better ground game period. if it goes to the ground hughes will win the fight, if it stays standing gsp's above average standup will destroy hughes crappy standup. the factor that matters is if hughes will be able to get inside gsp's range to wrap him up and take him down.

[Mr. Raider]

I thought it was interesting how hughes came out and said he chose GSP, I was thinking what the hell is hughes thinking. But then i came to the realization that even if hughes fought serra and won which i think he would. He would still fight a fully trained GSP after that, so why wouldn't he call him out on short notice. Its his only chance to beat GSP and if he does beat him he will never fight him again. Then beat serra and be champ for a long while seeing as noone else can give hughes problems like GSP can. Good strategy on hughes' part now all he has to do is win. NEWS FLASH He Won't.