MMA News Forums » MMA Forums » General MMA Forum

[eazye76]

I didn’t even know what contamination was before. Now I’m doing all this research. I take twenty two different supplements. With 25% of those supplements having the risk of being contaminated that increases my chances of having contamination pretty well. I can’t stop taking supplements, I need the stuff and its legal so what am I going to do? I can’t test all of my supplements; it’s about three hundred and fifty to five hundred dollars per test.

This really caught my eye. It's like Sherk is leaving the door open to test positive again. He says 25% of his supplements could be contaminated - Does that mean there is a 25% chance he's going to come up dirty after his next fight?

If his statement is true, and supplements are all filled with illegal shit then what about all the UFC fighters who pass drug tests? Do they not take ANY supplements, or are they just very lucky not to get the tainted supplements that Sherk gets.

Sean is a very confused young man if he's really going to continue taking stuff that he believes has a 25% chance of being tainted. If there is a 25% chance, that's a 1 in 4 chance, So is he going to fail another test in one of his next 4 fights? :headscratch:



I know Sherk is a pro fighter, so I would never say any of this to his face of course, I know if I did he would slam me to the ground and lay on me for 25 minutes.

[notrightn0w]

Originally Posted by eazye76

If his statement is true, and supplements are all filled with illegal shit then what about all the UFC fighters who pass drug tests? Do they not take ANY supplements, or are they just very lucky not to get the tainted supplements that Sherk gets.

My point exactly.

[Tick]

Originally Posted by Krazikarl

Sherk was able to show specifically how the testing was flawed, yet we still have people here saying stuff like "Whether he knew it or not, dude tested positive."

THEY HAD EVIDENCE THAT THE TEST WAS FLAWED. IF THE TEST GIVES OUT FALSE POSITIVES, NO RATIONAL PERSON CAN USE IT AS JUSTIFICATION FOR PUNISHMENT.

If you want to dispute his claim that the test gives false positives, well I guess you could try that, but so far nobody has offered counter proof and they had written evidence that Sherk's account was correct (according to Sherk anyway).

Let be honest here. People are reacting this way because Sherk isnt a popular fighter. We have already seen it where we have people like the original poster fighter bashing him with the lay n pray accusation (and somebody repping him for the bash). If Sherk was an exciting standup guy, people would be up in arms. Disgusting really that people act this way just because of his fighting style.



How about you actually read what you post? OK?

Sherks supps tested postive for testosterone. He flunked the test because of nano. See the problem here?

His central claim isnt ignorance. He's not claiming that his supps necessarily caused the false positive because he only knows about testo in his supps. He's claiming that the test was done wrong (without water blanks), which could cause a very low level false positive (and remember that his test showed VERY low levels of nano, which makes the idea plausible).

I agree with you, if what sherk says is true about Qwest Labs not using sanitary conditions to test then his test results should be null and void. I can't say I fully trust Sherk, but at the same time do you trust CSAC after all of the information that has been released about them either? Remember how Baroni got fucked? I have more faith in Sherk telling the truth than CSAC.

This really caught my eye. It's like Sherk is leaving the door open to test positive again. He says 25% of his supplements could be contaminated - Does that mean there is a 25% chance he's going to come up dirty after his next fight?

If that number is correct I would say that the amount of "bad" stuff in them is not enough to make a trip the tests. (That is all speculation)


On the off chance, does anyone have the Article he was referring to?

[Clint]

One hold up with the claims Sherk has about the testing is that each fighter provides an A sample and a B sample and each sample is tested twice. Everything I have read has stated that all 4 samples tested positive. So there would have had to have been carry over for nano on all four tests and I am almost positive that the b sample wasn't tested at the same time as the A sample.

[Tick]

In regards to the the study from USA Today that sherk was referring to is under....

Source

Pro and amateur athletes and weekend warriors who consume supplements to get in shape or stay there might be getting more than what they paid for — such as small amounts of steroids and illegal stimulants including ephedrine.

ATHLETES FEEL STIGMA: Questions abound on hidden risks
READ HFL STUDY: Copy of PDF online

A study scheduled to be released Wednesday and obtained by USA TODAY reports that 13 of the 52 supplements (25%) purchased at various U.S. retailers contained small amounts of steroids and six (11.5%) had banned stimulants.

The study was overseen by Informed-Choice, a non-profit coalition of dietary supplements. Testing was conducted by HFL, a lab located in England.

"We were very surprised by these results," said Dave Hall, CEO of HFL.
FIND MORE STORIES IN: Tampa Bay | HFL

A study by the International Olympic Committee conducted from 2000 to 2002 showed 18.8% of the 240 supplements purchased in the USA contained steroids.

Officials from Informed-Choice and HFL declined to reveal which supplements were tested or where they were purchased, but Hall said some of best-selling brands were randomly selected, mostly from mall-based stores.

"We didn't go after products that appeared to be dubious," Hall said. "We wanted to test products that were standard and mainstream, something a high school kid would be attracted to."

John Barnes, the football coach at Los Alamitos (Calif.) High, was alarmed at the results.

"It's not good if a kid can find these things in a health-food store," he said. "As a father and a coach, you think anything they'd find there would be perfectly fine, and then you find out that it's banned. This is something I'm going to start talking to my players about right away."

Of the 10 categories of supplements tested, testosterone boosters were flagged the most often. Six of the nine boosters contained androstenedione, a steroid precursor used by Mark McGwire en route to setting the single-season home run mark in 1998.

Andro was made illegal nearly three years ago.

Kelly Hoffman, executive director of Informed-Choice, said most banned substances are finding their way into products inadvertently — for instance, when manufacturers fail to properly clean equipment. She said raw materials imported from Asia, India and Eastern Europe also can be contaminated.

The Food and Drug Administration is taking on a more active role in policing supplements, including taking reports of adverse effects of the products starting Dec. 22.

[Krazikarl]

Originally Posted by eazye76

Sean is a very confused young man if he's really going to continue taking stuff that he believes has a 25% chance of being tainted. If there is a 25% chance, that's a 1 in 4 chance, So is he going to fail another test in one of his next 4 fights?



I know Sherk is a pro fighter, so I would never say any of this to his face of course, I know if I did he would slam me to the ground and lay on me for 25 minutes.

Not really.

If this stuff is true, then hes been taking banned stuff accidently for a while and hasnt tripped anything yet. That means that the crap is almost always at too low a level to trip it. And according to him, you need those supps in order to be competitive in the UFC, so its a calculated risk that he feels he has to take.

[Rufio]

Given how he's obsessing over this and spending so much money on it I'm starting to become inclined to believe him.


Again, for those in the dark on what Nandrolone tests actually are:


Nandrolone Positive Drug Tests – What Do They Mean?

The fact is that a number of studies have since shown that norandrosterone (NA) and noretiocholanolone (NE) (and likely nandrolone itself) are endogenous steroids formed likely from gonadal, adrenal and peripheral steroidogenic pathways. (Kicman & Brooks 1988; Debruyckere et al. 1990, Le Bizec et al. 1999, Dehennin et al. 1999).

Thus, since NA and NE are endogenous steroids, it’s not the presence of nandrolone metabolites that constitutes a positive drug test for nandrolone. As such, we need to be able to distinguish the natural endogenous products from the exogenous ones, including the anabolic steroid nandrolone and the various prohormones such as norandrostenedione and norandrostenediol.

To this end, the IOC and other sporting federations have decided to establish a urinary threshold concentration above which constitutes a positive doping test for the anabolic steroid nandrolone and/or one or more of the prohormones. And this is where the major problem lies.

Unfortunately for the athletes, establishing a urinary threshold level for nandrolone metabolites is currently a difficult and speculative process, due largely to the lack of scientific knowledge within this area.

For example, endogenous production has been shown in several studies to vary and has been found to be as high as 37 ng per ml in male subjects. (Debruyckere et al., 1990) No specific studies have been undertaken to determine excretion rates in females, although it has been demonstrated that natural female urinary NA concentrations are significantly higher than males (Ciardi et al. 1999).

Use of a threshold level also becomes difficult when environmental and physiological stress results in changes in the excretion rate of steroidal metabolites. Recent work by Le Bizec et al. (1999) has demonstrated that exercise can result in significant increases in nandrolone metabolite concentrations in voided urine. It was found that NA abundance within a soccer players urine increased by 300% during the course of a game.

As well, preliminary data from a study in the UK has shown that urinaly levels of NA may vary secondary to exercise, the use of non-banned nutritional supplements, and perhaps even from sickness, another form of stress for the body. (see Appendix 1 below)

Unfortunately, due to the lack of scientific knowledge in this area, it is not possible to conclusively state the natural range of nandrolone metabolite excretion in males or females, under both natural and stress conditions, with or without the use of various non-banned nutritional supplements. As a result, it is also impossible to set a scientifically or legally sustainable threshold level above which a doping offence can be proved to have been committed.

Here's another relevent link:

Nandrolone, What is Nandrolone? About its Science, Chemistry and Structure

[eazye76]

Originally Posted by Krazikarl

Not really.

If this stuff is true, then hes been taking banned stuff accidently for a while and hasnt tripped anything yet. That means that the crap is almost always at too low a level to trip it. And according to him, you need those supps in order to be competitive in the UFC, so its a calculated risk that he feels he has to take.

I would argue that if it's really necessary to take this "calculated risk" to compete in the UFC, then it's a risk that all fighters are taking, but Sherk is one of the only ones that has come up dirty. I'm sure Rampage, Chuck, Couture, Penn, etc... all take supplements and they always test clean.
It may not be fair, but I don't care how the illegal substance got in your body - it's there.

Bottom line is if Sherk is telling the truth, then he has been damaged severely by the supplement company that gave him the "tainted substance" and I would imagine he would have a very legitimate lawsuit involving lost wages, legal fee's, endorsements, and hits to his reputation. If it's true it would be in Sherk's best interest, financially and professionally to sue. Plus if he filed a lawsuit it would do a lot more to clear his name than this mound of evidence he claims to have.

[Tick]

Originally Posted by eazye76

I would argue that if it's really necessary to take this "calculated risk" to compete in the UFC, then it's a risk that all fighters are taking, but Sherk is one of the only ones that has come up dirty. I'm sure Rampage, Chuck, Couture, Penn, etc... all take supplements and they always test clean.
It may not be fair, but I don't care how the illegal substance got in your body - it's there.

Bottom line is if Sherk is telling the truth, then he has been damaged severely by the supplement company that gave him the "tainted substance" and I would imagine he would have a very legitimate lawsuit involving lost wages, legal fee's, endorsements, and hits to his reputation. If it's true it would be in Sherk's best interest, financially and professionally to sue. Plus if he filed a lawsuit it would do a lot more to clear his name than this mound of evidence he claims to have.

It might not of solely been the supplements though, it could of also been the unclean testing facilities, or a combination of the two... I, personally, have no faith in the CSAC to handle the coming proceedings professionally or the testing facility that they use.

[Rufio]

Originally Posted by eazye76

I would argue that if it's really necessary to take this "calculated risk" to compete in the UFC, then it's a risk that all fighters are taking, but Sherk is one of the only ones that has come up dirty. I'm sure Rampage, Chuck, Couture, Penn, etc... all take supplements and they always test clean.
It may not be fair, but I don't care how the illegal substance got in your body - it's there.

... TESTING POSITIVE FOR NANDROLONE DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE ELEVATED NANDROLONE LEVELS IN YOUR BODY. IT MEANS YOU HAVE ELEVATED LEVELS OF 19-NORENDOSTERONE, WHICH YOU CAN GET THROUGH SEVERAL WAYS THAT DON'T INVOLVE ELEVATED LEVELS OF NANDROLONE. ALSO PEOPLE HAVE BEEN NATURALLY SHOWN TO HAVE LEVELS OF 19-NORENDOSTERONE SEVERAL TIMES HIGHER THAN WHAT SHERK TESTED FOR IN RARE INSTANCES.