This really gives new definition to fairweather fandom IMO ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by harlemhustla145  IMO CroCop was known for kicking many peoples heads off because he was put against many cans with limited standup to show off against. He did put together some quality wins and that just made it even solidified. |
Cro Cop also kicked the hell out of Wanderlei, Aleks, Noguiera (at the bell), Barnett, Hunt (his chin saved him), and Herring among others with good standup.
His problems are obvious. He is walking around the cage hunched over throwing occasional kicks with little energy. It's the same style he had when he first entered Pride and right after the Randleman knockout. When he's in a good mental state, he doesn't slouch over and walk around. He leaps in, lands a shot, and leaps out of range in a circle. And he's FAST.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harlemhustla145 Most of UFCs fighters are well rounded, many of Prides fighters were one dimensional in some way. |
This is just a ridiculous statement. Some of the UFC's top promotions before the Pride guys came in were Tito (no standup) and Kongo (no ground game). Jeff Monson got a title shot. Pride's HW and LHW divisions were far more well-rounded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harlemhustla145 Wandy: Good standup, great power, great BJJ, no wrtestling. |
No, great standup, really good power, great BJJ, and moderate wrestling. You don't take down Rampage and Sakuraba with no wrestling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harlemhustla145 His claim to fame came from beating a clearly undersized Saku and a technically disadvantaged Rampage. |
Stop making excuses for Rampage, LOL.
You're forgetting Wand's wins over Dan Henderson, Fujita, Guy Mezger, Arona, Yoshida (twice), and Nakamura. Not to mention that he really beat Cro Cop the first time (no judges though) and IMO beat Mark Hunt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harlemhustla145 I do think he is more tentative now because of his last few loses by KO and that just makes it worse. He used to be balls to the wall but when he fought a naturally bigger and more skilled CroCop, he lost. He should have had a better gameplan. Instead of stiking with a striker, he should have taken him to the ground. Also, I think those 2 loses have weakened his chin. |
His pure boxing against Chuck looked better than before. He looked more tentative like after the knockdowns, but part of that was I think he had to supress his reflex to stomp. Chuck also looked more tentative than usual in round 3 when he managed to rock Wand in the corner. He didn't look as aggressive going for the kill as he did against Randy or Tito, probably because of how many times Wand rocked him earlier in the fight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harlemhustla145 Shogun:He's never fought a real well rounded fighter, maybe except for Babalu (who we all know is a good fighter, just a dumb ass.) |
This is just a retarded comment. Babalu is a top BJJ guy with okay wrestling and okay standup. Ricardo Arona has better BJJ, much better wrestling, and better standup. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira is possibly THE most well-rounded fighter at 205. And yes, Rampage showed power, great standup, and great wrestling before he hooked up with Juanito. He was well-rounded.
Shogun still has a better track record than anyone else at 205. His loss to Forrest doesn't change that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harlemhustla145 Herring: Always a can IMO. He was just a stepping stone for great fighters. The only reason people thought he would do well in the UFC is because of the fantasy that Pride's fighters were so much better than the UFC's at the time. |
LOL, I like how you call everyone with losses against top guys who you don't like a "can." He's got wins against several fighters who are not "cans" and whenever he fought top guys, while he lost he always put up a great fight. Except against Cro Cop. He had an injury in his first UFC fight that hindered his wrestling, still dominated the standup, then he went on to beat the crap out of Brad Imes and lose to Nog again.
He's a B-level fighter with good standup, good chin, good power, and good wrestling. He's pretty much the HW equivalent of Tito Ortiz. He's a gatekeeper who's good enough to give top guys a fight but will normally lose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harlemhustla145 Werdum:Just a BJJ guy with improving standup. No wrestling, no power, we still need to see more from him. |
He's THE best BJJ guy at HW. He stopped Gonzaga with strikes last time, had Arlovski in trouble with strikes at times in their fight, and outstruck Overeem. He has already proven himself against top 10 talent. He may not be #1, but he's certainly better than most of the HW division.
There are holes in his game, but the same can be said of Gonzaga, Sylvia, and Monson, all of whom recently fought for the UFC HW title.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harlemhustla145 Gonzaga has underated standup IMO and Kongo is a world class striker by MMA standards and a former pro Muay Thai kickboxer with a 30 and 3 record or something. No surprise that CroCop lost when you break it down. |
Gonzaga's standup is sloppy. He just has power. You are fucking BLIND if you think Rampage has improved but Cro Cop has stayed the same. Cro Cop has looked as he does now two other times in his career that I recall. His entire fighting style is different. He did not leap in, land shots, and leap out of range against either Kongo or Gonzaga the same way he did in ALL of his dominant Pride and K-1 fights.
Kongo got outstruck by Gilbert Yvel who is not on Cro Cop's level of striking. Cro Cop is the only top striker Kongo has fought, and he did not fight a top form Cro Cop. Kongo fought the Cro Cop who showed up for the first fight against Wanderlei and for the fight against Kanehara (after the Randleman KO), and still got oustruck in the first round. He would've been killed by the Cro Cop who showed up against Nog, Aleks, Wand (the second fight), Barnett, or virtually all of his K-1 fights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harlemhustla145
Rampage:Many people are surprised that Rampage is even doing this good and ask how did Wand and Shogun dominate him like they did. The amser is simple. Rampage had little to no standup at that time and by his own words, said he almost never had enough time to train properly. He said both fights with Shogun and Wand (both) were on short notice and he didn't have the proper training partners. He just wanted to get in there and bang. The upside to Rampage was always his aggressiveness, retard strength, heart, and natural athletisism. Many fighters he faced were more skilled than him but his heart, and strength, and power somehow kept him in the limelight.
Rampage's striking has improved leaps and bounds since getting a great boxing trainer. He's been constantly improving in every aspect of the game and has become a beast. IMO, I think everybody on this forum knows that Rampage would KO both Wand and Shogun now. He's just too much.
|
1. Rampage showed the EXACT SAME STRIKING against Chuck in the first fight as the second. He did the SAME THING to Chuck several times in their first fight. It was almost identical. The ONLY thing that looked different is he was able to finish Chuck with an elbow
on the ground after the knockdown in the second fight, while in the first he could only use punches and knees.
2. Rampage did NOT decisively outstrike Dan Henderson, who Wanderlei DID decisively outstrike in their first fight. Wand with a 105 degree fever looked just as good against Hendo at standup as Rampage did until he gassed. In fact Wand won the first round against Hendo in their second fight IMO while Rampage lost the first round.
Further, Rampage used the same blocks and footwork against Wanderlei in both fights as he used against Chuck and Henderson. In fact, he showed the same power too when he rocked Wanderlei in their second fight the same as he did Chuck in their second fight. He just couldn't finish Wand on the ground.
3. In Pride, Rampage was able to outwrestle Ricardo Arona, a guy who outwrestled Dan Henderson much more decisively than Rampage did.
4. Rampage's striking against Marvin Eastman looked worst than the standup he showed when he was in Pride.
To sum it up:
Cro Cop and Shogun looked nothing like they did before. Wanderlei looked about the same except more tentative and he didn't throw knees. Rampage looked tentative in his first fight, then he looked like the same Rampage who was on a roll in Pride except that he hasn't slammed anyone yet. Werdum and Noguiera looked the same. Herring had an injury in his first fight, then came back and looked the same.
Pride fighters have had some bad luck, but really the Hendo/Rampage and Chuck/Wand fights are very debatable decisions. Machida's fought most of his career outside the UFC and has made pretty much everyone he's fought look bad. Cro Cop and Shogun are the only fighters whose performances have been HORRIBLE.
Linear Mode
