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Originally Posted by harlemhustla145  He was a champion, you do not become a champion by being B level. You become a champion by being world class especially compared to MMA standards. Remember, most MMA fighters didn't start off as kickboxers, so naturally if a dude like Kongo who was kickboxing first would be world class compared to most MMA fighters. |
Naming some obscure tournament he won is useless without mentioning any worthwhile fighters he beat. Look at how Fedor won the recent Sambo tournament.
Is Steve Jennum a world class MMA fighter because he won UFC 3?
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Originally Posted by harlemhustla145 I don't know what slouched over style your talking about but against Gonzaga he did use footwork and avoided most of Gabe's punches. |
He barely moved at all. He looked slow and leaning forward. It looked like he was LETTING some of the punches land, assuming he would eventually get an opening.
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Originally Posted by harlemhustla145 Unlike the fight with Aleks, CroCop didn't counter when Gabe missed. I think that's due to underestimating Gabe and thinking eventually he could tire him out and walk him down. Against Kongo, CroCop dominated the first round and looked like his old self. The 2nd round Kongo took CroCop down and pretty much dominated. That could be due to Kongo being stronger or CroCop just not being as proficient at sweeps or subs from his back. The 3rd round CroCop was finished, especially after his ribs being broken and his balls crushed. More situational if you ask me. |
I'm tired of explaining the difference, so I'm just going to show it.
THIS is the Cro Cop that Kongo fought:
YouTube - Mirco Crocop VS Wanderlei Silva
THIS is the Cro Cop we've seen in virtually all the major fights he's won:
YouTube - Mirco Crocop VS Wanderlei Silva PART 1 YouTube - Mirco Crocop VS Wanderlei Silva PART 2
I don't see how anyone could have trouble discerning the difference in fighting styles, especially when it comes to speed and footwork.
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Originally Posted by harlemhustla145 In all of his fights he fights with the same style. He always fights flat footed unless he's backpeddling. He does throw quick counter punches and kicks that I did not see in the fight with Gabe but he pretty much is flatfooted. |
Cro Cop is only flat footed when he's coming forward. Whenever an opponent attacks him, he's always been quick to dodge and counter, jumping around the ring usually in a circular motion. This is true of pretty much every big fight he's won, including in his K-1 days.
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Originally Posted by harlemhustla145 You talking about him as if he moves like Mahammed Ali. In the Nog fight he won the first round by going backwards, stuffing the takedown, and countering, the same thing he was trying to do against Gabe. The same the goes with the Bob Sapp fight. He did the exact same thing with Gabe, it just didn't work this time. IMO, mainly because he was very disoriented after taking repeated elbows to the skull. |
Dude, are you serious? He just STOOD there against Gabe and threw one attack in the first minute ofthe fight. Against Bob Sapp he leapt around the ring like a chipanzee on crack. There is no comparison.
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Originally Posted by harlemhustla145
That's called TOO MUCH RESPECT! If your trying to say he wasn't letting his hands go then you may be correct but CroCop's footwork is strolling around the ring lol. That's what he does. Unless he's the aggressor, he backpeddles or uses footwork as you call it, and tries to avoid strikes while countering. He just realized he didn't need to do that in the second fight. It's called learning from your previous fight and having a better game plan next time.
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What the fuck are you talking about? He came forward in the first fight and walked around slowly, slouched over. He did virtually no countering other than to clinch when Silva was overwhelming him. In the second fight, he used his usual countering, footwork, and SPEED.
Cro Cop winning fights against top opponents has pretty much always been dependent on him being faster than they are. It's no surprise that when he doesn't even TRY to outpace his opponents, he does poorly.
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Originally Posted by harlemhustla145 He always walks around like a turtle unless he's forced to sprint like a rabbit. CroCop is the type of fighter to reserve energy and stike when there is openings.
Lol, are you high when you watch MMA? You talk as if he's PBF and he's far from that. He only quickly leaps out the way of takedown attempt and moves back to avoid strikes. Clearly doing that in the first round with Kongo until Kongo wore him down. And I just watched the fight again (both Kongo and Gabe, Nog and Aleks to while were at it.) |
I've addressed this above. He leaps around AND lands most of his offense when his opponent is attacking, mainly because he's a counter-striker. He walks forward like a turtle WHEN HE'S BAITING HIS OPPONENT. He pours on the speed when they come forward, which is what virtually all of his victories have been by virtue of.
Against Kongo and Gonzaga, he pretty much just stood there when he was being attacked. He did some blocking but used virtually no speed.
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Originally Posted by harlemhustla145
In the Gabe fight I just think he should have let his hands go. The wrong game plan was to let Gabe press the issue. The Kongo fight, he just got him ass whooped in the 2nd and 3rd round.
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The Kongo fight, he pretty much stopped fighting back after the first round. He fought Kongo like he fought Wand in their first fight, won the exchanges in the first round, and pretty much did nothing besides throwing an occasional kick or jab in the next two rounds. He didn't try to dodge and used no speed. He just threw like one strike every 10 seconds and that was his entire gameplan.
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Originally Posted by harlemhustla145 Headmovement certainly helps as foot movement only allows him to backpeddle and that is clearly when Mirko is not at his best, even though he did that against Aleks and was the best performance I've seen from CroCop. |
Pretty much all of his best performances involve "backpedalling." Even the kick he landed in K-1 that dropped Mark Hunt (which looks like it would have allowed for a TKO finish if it was MMA) happened while Hunt was coming forward.
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Originally Posted by harlemhustla145 And has lost to a few as well. |
Yeah, but the same can be said of any top K-1 striker.
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Originally Posted by harlemhustla145 Rampage admittedly said that he was always undertrained and just wasn't as polished. I'm inclined to believe him. |
Every fighter says that shit. And it took like a year before he started changing his tune, blaming it on the refs and crap.
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Originally Posted by harlemhustla145 No, the first fight was a long and tedious one. This time, Liddell got KTFO! Big difference. |
He didn't get KTFO. He was TKOed by an ELBOW on the GROUND, which isn't allowed in Pride. The knockdown that got it on the ground in the first place was identical to several of the shots he landed in the first fight.
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Originally Posted by harlemhustla145 I
He fights the same way in almost every fight. Sometimes it just doesn't work. You talk as if CroCop can't be beaten at all. If he's hurt and or can't enforce his will on an opponent naturally I think you will think he's not same same CroCop. Very biased and giving no credit to the fighters who were lucky enough to beat him (besides Randleman) |
No, I give them credit. Kongo's performance was impressive, although Gabe and Wand were more impressive. I'd just bet on a top form Cro Cop based on Kongo's fights with Belfort, Yvel, and Assuerio.
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Originally Posted by harlemhustla145
Wand was and is not a natural HW and CroCop has Height, reach advantage over him, CroCop just has a bad gameplan in their first fight. I don't remember the first one to be honest.
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He fought the first one exactly like he fought against Kongo.
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Originally Posted by harlemhustla145 I'm still a CroCop fan, what are you talking about? I damn near cried when Gabe kicked his face off. I still think he can kick most peoples asses in the UFC. I'm just not going to make excuses for any fighter losing where I don't see there is one. I give more respect to Gabe and Kongo doing what they had to do to win than to make an excuse for CroCop losing. I think most non biased fans would look at it that way. I just think I underestimated fighters from different orgs and put Pride fighters on a whole other pedistal a year ago, now I've just been humbled and will give every fighter their due respect unless it's proven without a shawdow of a doubt, a legitimate reason for losing. |
You're a fairweather fan because any time someone has a good or bad showing you proclaim that a fighter has either "improved" a hundredfold or they were always that good/bad. You can't accept that one recent performance doesn't define a carreer.
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