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Old 09-10-2006, 11:22 PM   #11 (permalink)
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fuck this shit im goin to bed!
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Old 09-10-2006, 11:56 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypergit
This is the only way I can think of to ensure mma is clean of steroids.

The questions would need to be phrased in such a way that an amnesty of previous users was applied (otherwise most, if not all, of the top fighters would be banned lol).

Also the punishments for using would need to be a lot more severe (they are currently a farce, Tim Sylvia's ban being a case in point).

Thoughts?

btw this is not meant to be a discussion on how prevalent drug use is in mma (very), or on whether or not current measures in the US work (they don't).

git.

Again another silly thread who cares if a fighter is on steroids.
Steroids won't help you learn MMA skills its only good for strength maybe stamina.
You can have all the Hulk Hogan roids in the world that won't make you a better fighter.

This is not Baseball... WHO CARES....
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Old 09-11-2006, 05:01 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killerinstinct
There's ways to cheat a polygraph test as well though and polygraphs tests aren't always acurate.
Very good point. They are, however, more reliable than the current tests (that have somewhere between little and no value).

You are right we can't just be banning etc based soley on the test, so how about this:

drug tests as normal (but at a higher frequency than currently especially during training time). Polygraph once a year. All polygraph faliures (and their entire mma team) are tested much more often during the next year. I say the whole team should be tested more because elite fighters don't source their juice themselves (most 'street' steroids are not labled accurately and would lead to undesired results and test faliures due to unpredictable half-lives).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm442
Hitting people in the pocketbook is the only thing that most people understand.
Whilst I agree that fines must be higher, I think the ban time is far more of a deterrent. When you consider that most top fighters wouldn't have acheived their high earnings level without roids, you see that a fine of any size will still keep the risk/reward calculation favouring the juice for pro fighters. A ban of 4 years may have more of an effect (although people will still do it as we see in other sports).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronin
Again another silly thread who cares if a fighter is on steroids.
Steroids won't help you learn MMA skills its only good for strength maybe stamina.
You can have all the Hulk Hogan roids in the world that won't make you a better fighter.
*sigh* I'm not bothering with this again, I'll just cut and paste one of my previous posts to alleviate your ignorance - no thanks required:

"Yes it does [make a better fighter] by allowing far more training time and at a higher intensity, resulting in a higher skill level and better conditioning. More skill and better conditioning (plus the additional physical benefits) = better fighter."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronin
This is not Baseball... WHO CARES.....
I can tell from this that either:

a) you are an mma practicioner that juices, or...

b) you don't train mma.

I wonder which one it is...

First off, we should care more about it in mma than baseball because in baseball you are hitting a ball, where as in mma you are hitting another man's face. In a nutshell, the steroids in mma not only allow you to win more, but also put both fighters lives at a greater degree of risk. If you don't care about that then you do not care about mma.

Another thing - this is not just an issue at the top level of the sport. Shit filters down to the grass roots. You get 16 year old amateurs juicing themselves to the gills when they haven't even finished growing yet (very bad for the body's adolescent hormonal and structural systems). You get a situation where if you want to climb the rankings and *maybe* get to a professional level, you must risk your life (and life savings) using drugs.

Of course none of that stuff effects keyboard warriors like yourself, but you would spare a thought for the fighters' predicament if you were a real fan.

git.
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Old 09-11-2006, 10:46 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronin
Again another silly thread who cares if a fighter is on steroids.
Steroids won't help you learn MMA skills its only good for strength maybe stamina.
You can have all the Hulk Hogan roids in the world that won't make you a better fighter.

This is not Baseball... WHO CARES....
Dumb-ASS!!! LOL.
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Old 09-11-2006, 11:49 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by chungt79
Dumb-ASS!!! LOL.
Well chungt79 you make a compelling argument, nice to see an person with your kind of intellect.

Anybody can flame what a joke..
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Old 09-11-2006, 12:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronin
Again another silly thread who cares if a fighter is on steroids.
Steroids won't help you learn MMA skills its only good for strength maybe stamina.
You can have all the Hulk Hogan roids in the world that won't make you a better fighter.

This is not Baseball... WHO CARES....
i think it matters just because of the fact that it isnt fair to the other fighters who dont juice. there are alot of benefits from juicing that hypergit covered.
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Old 09-11-2006, 12:03 PM   #17 (permalink)
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No Hypergit I love MMA I am saying steroids won't give you super-human strengh,if you are a week puncher steroids won't make you hit like Ivan Drago.
steroids help you build muscle mass faster than a regular work-out.

Also too much muscle will hender a fighters agility.
It also rasies your testosterone levels which lowers your imune system so if you get hurt it will take long to recover..

I just saying steroids in MMA are irrelevant you can't cheat with this sport.
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Old 09-11-2006, 01:10 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronin
No Hypergit I love MMA I am saying steroids won't give you super-human strengh,if you are a week puncher steroids won't make you hit like Ivan Drago.
steroids help you build muscle mass faster than a regular work-out.

Also too much muscle will hender a fighters agility.
It also rasies your testosterone levels which lowers your imune system so if you get hurt it will take long to recover..

I just saying steroids in MMA are irrelevant you can't cheat with this sport.
Increased Test allows you to recover faster, thereby you can train more and train harder. Increasing muscle mass will only occur if your caloric intake exceeds your caloric expenditure (which with this kind of training is difficult). So it's entirely possible to use the incresed Test to train harder without gaining additional muscle mass.

Thereby they are an advantage and should be against the rules. They won't make you a better fighter but they will help you train more to become one.
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Old 09-11-2006, 01:10 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronin
I am saying steroids won't give you super-human strengh,if you are a week puncher steroids won't make you hit like Ivan Drago. steroids help you build muscle mass faster than a regular work-out.
'Steroids' is an umbrella term covering a vast array of chemicals. With a little knowledge you can adjust your body however you please with them. If you don't want to build muscle mass, you don't take steroids that do that. Some will cut weight whilst maintaining strength, some will allow greater strength without gaining mass, some will accelerate recovery etc etc etc etc.

So, you are correct to an extent, but I am really stretching the definition of the word 'extent'. You can achieve an un-natural strength/weight ratio with steroids, you can also train longer, harder, and more frequently in order to develope your punching technique. And no, you don't have to build muscle mass with them if you don't want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronin
Also too much muscle will hender a fighters agility.
As aforementioned, you don't have to increase muscle mass. You can however increase strength, speed and technique so, on the contrary, you get more agile if desired. In addition, there is an optimum strength/weight ratio for each individual's agility - lighter is not necessarily more agile (far from it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronin
It also rasies your testosterone levels which lowers your imune system so if you get hurt it will take long to recover...
No, you recover a lot faster. And stacking and supplementing correctly will improve your imune system. Oh, and testosterone is just one of the countless 'steroids'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronin
I just saying steroids in MMA are irrelevant you can't cheat with this sport.
Well, as I have demonstrated repeatedly, you can cheat with steroids in this sport.

Steroids are an advantage. That is undeniable, so please don't continue to showcase your lack of knowledge about them in this off-topic discourse. Why on Earth do you think top athletes would use them otherwise?

git.
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Last edited by Hypergit; 09-11-2006 at 01:34 PM.
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