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[Diegonightmare]

Yes, if Chuck beats Shogun he is the greatest LHW ever.

As mentioned earlier, they all have "stains" in their career - Chuck lost to Jardine, lost twice to Rampage, Shogun lost to Forrest and then would have lost to Chuck in this scenario, Rampage got the shit beat out of him by Shogun and twice by Wandy, Hendo was 1-1 against Wandy and lost to Rampage...so given that all of them have "issues", all things considered Chuck would be the man.

It would be unfortunate for him, however, if he fights Rampage a third time and loses again.

Regarding arguments made for Rampage claiming this distinction:

Originally Posted by MONSONBYCHOKE

He has beaten
Chuck x2 - easily his strongest resume point
Randleman Prime - solid; Chuck tooled him worse however
Bustamante - barely top 10 MMA; also Rampage SD'd Busta while Chuck UD'd him
Arona - solid
Matt Lindland - natural MW
Marvin Eastman - natural MW
Hendo - his second strongest resume point and one of the all-time great superfights

Chuck meanwhile:

- Beat Monson
- Tooled Randleman
- UD'd Busta
- Beat Suloev
- Beat Belfort
- KO'd Babalu, twice
- KO'd Overeem
- KO'd Tiger White
- KO'd Randy Couture, twice
- Tooled Horn
- Tooled Ortiz twice, both (T)KO's
- UD'd Wanderlei
- (in this scenario) beat Shogun

Chuck's victim list is like a who's who at 205 in MMA. You look at his resume since Dec. 2000 and he didn't fight anyone who wasn't highly dangerous; most were top-10 when he fought them.

Against that lineup he went 17-4, losing only to Randy, Rampage twice, and (unaccountably IMO as he was the weakest guy Liddell faced since 2000) Keith Jardine.

Of those 17 wins, only 3 of them went to the judges; the other 14 were all (T)KO.

No LHW is spotless (nobody is in MMA, really, other than Fedor), but Chuck is clearly #1 all-time IMO, especially if he defeats Shogun.

[Diegonightmare]

Originally Posted by KENO5366

I wouldn't say Chuck is the best lhw. I would say he is the most dominate lhw so far. Wandy was pretty dominate in Pride to but since he lost to Chuck, Chuck holds that tittle right now. It's just like someone else posted. The situation in just like Matt hughes and GSP. I would say GSP is the best(giving that he beats Serra) but Matt Hughes has been the most dominate ww so far.

Fair enough, who is the best of all time (at 205) then?

[SimpleJack]

I would just like to see an argument for someone that would qualify as GOAT at LHW AT THIS POINT IN TIME. It would have to be Chuck, and I don't even like the dude. No one else has the resume to even touch it. NO ONE.

[GODKING7]

chuck will be mention in the top five as he well deserves to be but he did`nt convince me in the fight w/ wandy and it was`nt like he destroyed wandy he won by decision in a fight i had a draw (wandy k.himdown twice) there is still work for him to do and i doubt anyone can ever have a streak like wandy had with the title!!!dominated the lhw div. for five years and beat more superior fighters than chuck!! here goes:hendo,yoshida 2x, rampage 2x,sakuraba 3x, fujita, arona not 2 mention the fight he was robbed of with hunt who outweighed him by 70 to 80 lbs and the fight he fought mirko cro cop and would of won by decision if it was`nt for the fight being fought w/k-1 rules and ruled and automatic draw and that`s when mirko was kicking everybodys ass and everyone was afraid to fight him so i doubt anybody has a better resume than my boy wandy!!! i`ll bet anything that the next time wandy and chuck meet wandy will knock him the f out and all those doubters will know who the real G.O.A.T REALLY IS!!!

[jrube]

Originally Posted by cpac77

Where does this put Chuck in terms of best LHW ever? To me he would draw comparisons to Matt Hughes who is widely regarded as the best WW ever (that can change based on GSP's career), but can't beat GSP.

Furthermore if Chuck beats Shogun, does Chuck earn the right to fight the winner of Griffin/Rampage? Or does he fight again in Sept. vs another highly touted LHW (like Machida) and then fight for the LHW belt in December provided that he wins all other fights in 08?

Chuck is already one of the best LHW fighters ever!!!!! I think he has a few more good fights in him, as he ages, he will lose his quickness which is essential to his style, so I really don't see him fighting far into his 40's...

If he beats Shogun, then yes he should get a title shot!

[FFFRpickup]

Originally Posted by Diegonightmare

Fair enough, who is the best of all time (at 205) then?

the closest contenders...according to me.

1.chuck
2.wandy
3.hendo
4.rampage
5.shogun

if chuck beats shogun(and i thin he will) he should be considered "one of the best lhw of all time"

wandy still has an impressive resume...but his last three fights have tarnished him a bit.

shogun....needs to string together three wins agianst top ten opponents before considred.

rampage has immpressive record but not yet a contender in the best of all tme list...sure he has beat chuck twice but that doesn't cut it...if that's all it takes to be named the best lhw of all time then hand over the label of "the best WW of all time" to dennis halman for beating Matt hughes twice!! hehe..get my point.

hendo..it's tough not to consider him..he fought a great fight against rampage with a tight back..beast wnader in great fasion..but now moverd to mw....where he will beat anderson.

my two cents worth.

[cpac77]

Originally Posted by Diegonightmare

Yes, if Chuck beats Shogun he is the greatest LHW ever.

As mentioned earlier, they all have "stains" in their career - Chuck lost to Jardine, lost twice to Rampage, Shogun lost to Forrest and then would have lost to Chuck in this scenario, Rampage got the shit beat out of him by Shogun and twice by Wandy, Hendo was 1-1 against Wandy and lost to Rampage...so given that all of them have "issues", all things considered Chuck would be the man.

It would be unfortunate for him, however, if he fights Rampage a third time and loses again.

Regarding arguments made for Rampage claiming this distinction:



Chuck meanwhile:

- Beat Monson
- Tooled Randleman
- UD'd Busta
- Beat Suloev
- Beat Belfort
- KO'd Babalu, twice
- KO'd Overeem
- KO'd Tiger White
- KO'd Randy Couture, twice
- Tooled Horn
- Tooled Ortiz twice, both (T)KO's
- UD'd Wanderlei
- (in this scenario) beat Shogun

Chuck's victim list is like a who's who at 205 in MMA. You look at his resume since Dec. 2000 and he didn't fight anyone who wasn't highly dangerous; most were top-10 when he fought them.

Against that lineup he went 17-4, losing only to Randy, Rampage twice, and (unaccountably IMO as he was the weakest guy Liddell faced since 2000) Keith Jardine.

Of those 17 wins, only 3 of them went to the judges; the other 14 were all (T)KO.

No LHW is spotless (nobody is in MMA, really, other than Fedor), but Chuck is clearly #1 all-time IMO, especially if he defeats Shogun.

I have to agree, that is an excellent and IMO a very accurate breakdown and analysis of why Chuck should be regarded as best LHW ever if he beats Shogun.

As others have mentioned, Chuck isn't done after Shogun. He will likely be part of the co-main event in December 08 possibly for the belt depending on how thoroughly he beats Shogun if he does. The UFC knows Chuck is thinking retirement within the next few years. Dana would be wise to get all of the big money fights he possibly can with Chuck before Chuck calls it one of the best MMA careers ever. And as for Chuck, big money fights to him = big money, and the best competition. I don't think he would want it any other way. I know I don't.

[POINDEXTER]

If Chuck beats Shogun, then it's Chuck.

[CHUCKtheCHAMP]

Originally Posted by Diegonightmare

Yes, if Chuck beats Shogun he is the greatest LHW ever.

As mentioned earlier, they all have "stains" in their career - Chuck lost to Jardine, lost twice to Rampage, Shogun lost to Forrest and then would have lost to Chuck in this scenario, Rampage got the shit beat out of him by Shogun and twice by Wandy, Hendo was 1-1 against Wandy and lost to Rampage...so given that all of them have "issues", all things considered Chuck would be the man.

It would be unfortunate for him, however, if he fights Rampage a third time and loses again.

Regarding arguments made for Rampage claiming this distinction:



Chuck meanwhile:

- Beat Monson
- Tooled Randleman
- UD'd Busta
- Beat Suloev
- Beat Belfort
- KO'd Babalu, twice
- KO'd Overeem
- KO'd Tiger White
- KO'd Randy Couture, twice
- Tooled Horn
- Tooled Ortiz twice, both (T)KO's
- UD'd Wanderlei
- (in this scenario) beat Shogun

Chuck's victim list is like a who's who at 205 in MMA. You look at his resume since Dec. 2000 and he didn't fight anyone who wasn't highly dangerous; most were top-10 when he fought them.

Against that lineup he went 17-4, losing only to Randy, Rampage twice, and (unaccountably IMO as he was the weakest guy Liddell faced since 2000) Keith Jardine.

Of those 17 wins, only 3 of them went to the judges; the other 14 were all (T)KO.

No LHW is spotless (nobody is in MMA, really, other than Fedor), but Chuck is clearly #1 all-time IMO, especially if he defeats Shogun.

like cpac77 said, this is a perfect breakdown of y chuck is the number one lhw of all time...everyone he has faught other then jardine was top 10 a the time and finally beating wandy who imo is the only other contender to this title put him there for me. and especially if he beats rua who is by many considered number one right now...chuck is one of the best regardless, but a win over rua puts him number one imo...