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[MYboyBISPING]

None of those guy's mention to be a part of the coming "exodus" I really could not care less about tito sucks, Tim sucks and AA damn I haven't seen him fight in so long that he was probably part of the Dallas to NJ trade so be it.

[Ramma]

Originally Posted by Krazikarl

Completely disagree.

PRIDE at its peak had no hope of competing with the UFC in its power base (the US and Europe). Remember that at the end when PRIDE put on big US shows (with Fedor, Shogun etc etc) they had to give away massive amounts of tickets to their show and the PPVs did something like 30k buys. Thats not competition with the UFC.

DREAM doesnt have the same fighter talent level as the big PRIDE shows and it has no intent of coming to the US as far as I can tell, so how the heck is it going to compete with the UFC in the US/Europe when the bigger and badder PRIDE absolutely couldnt?

Remember that the hardcore fan community is very small compared to the UFC fan base, so just because the hardcore community is excited about something most certainly does not mean that it will be a success or a competitor for the UFC

Who said that DREAM/PRIDE had to be big in the US to compete with the UFC?

UFC dominated the US.. PRIDE dominated everywhere else. UFC is JUST starting to do shows in Europe.. how did they dominate the US/Europe market.. where did you get that from?

And, they aren't dominating the European market now either for that matter, Dana has gone on record to state that they have lost money in Europe, not gained (or something along those lines).

Just because PRIDE wasn't doing well in the US, doesn't mean it wasn't doing well. PRIDE's downfall was the loss of the TV deal, it was doing fine against the UFC.

The UFC may have the biggest pond, but it doesn't have the ocean.


With DREAM having big names from the UFC in their organization, it could start something. I have said it a thousand times.. if the fighters are being bullied, and another organization looks promising, they will go there.. and UFC will be in trouble.

[Krazikarl]

Originally Posted by Ramma

Who said that DREAM/PRIDE had to be big in the US to compete with the UFC?

Because by definition of the word "compete" they have to be going for the same people in order to actually compete. If the UFC has no interest in Japan (which they dont) and DREAM has no interest in anyplace the UFC is, then they arent competing against each other. What they would be doing is the definition of co-existance.

You can make some sort of argument about competing for fighters, but they are really drawing from different pools. DREAM wants the Japanese guys, and the UFC wasnt interested in those guys. DREAM hasnt signed anybody that the UFC was really interested in and I dont see them doing that since the Japanese and US markets are quit different in terms of which fighters are popular.

The UFC is dominating Europe by default. PRIDE never had any shows there, and neither has any other major organization in recent memory. The UFC puts on the only big European shows, so they are dominating there due to complete lack of competition (and I dont see DREAM trying to crack that market either).

[Ramma]

Originally Posted by Krazikarl

Because by definition of the word "compete" they have to be going for the same people in order to actually compete. If the UFC has no interest in Japan (which they dont) and DREAM has no interest in anyplace the UFC is, then they arent competing against each other. What they would be doing is the definition of co-existance.

You can make some sort of argument about competing for fighters, but they are really drawing from different pools. DREAM wants the Japanese guys, and the UFC wasnt interested in those guys. DREAM hasnt signed anybody that the UFC was really interested in and I dont see them doing that since the Japanese and US markets are quit different in terms of which fighters are popular.

The UFC is dominating Europe by default. PRIDE never had any shows there, and neither has any other major organization in recent memory. The UFC puts on the only big European shows, so they are dominating there due to complete lack of competition (and I dont see DREAM trying to crack that market either).

Of course I mean mostly for fighters (I didn't bring up markets)... and I said UFC will be in trouble if they keep losing fighters. Fighters, and with every right and good reason, will go where they can make the most money. If DREAM starts bringing in the $, fighters will go there. If UFC keeps bullying (if they are in fact doing so), fighters will go there.

Whether the UFC is popular in the US or not, if they have no fighters, they have no shows.

If we are going to go on definitions.. you can't be losing money in a market and dominating a market at the same time. I'd say the UFC is IN the market with companies such as Cage Rage.. but I wouldn't call it dominating.

[Tick]

Originally Posted by Ramma

With DREAM having big names from the UFC in their organization, it could start something.

What names? The only one I heard was CroCop, and to be honest... He really isnt a UFC name... Those who know crocop from UFC will not be looking to watch him fight in another org.

I haven't been keeping an eye on the names DREAM aquired, so please enlighten me with a few big names from the UFC.

[TravelinMonty]

Originally Posted by Krazikarl

Because by definition of the word "compete" they have to be going for the same people in order to actually compete. If the UFC has no interest in Japan (which they dont) and DREAM has no interest in anyplace the UFC is, then they arent competing against each other. What they would be doing is the definition of co-existance.

You can make some sort of argument about competing for fighters, but they are really drawing from different pools. DREAM wants the Japanese guys, and the UFC wasnt interested in those guys. DREAM hasnt signed anybody that the UFC was really interested in and I dont see them doing that since the Japanese and US markets are quit different in terms of which fighters are popular.

The UFC is dominating Europe by default. PRIDE never had any shows there, and neither has any other major organization in recent memory. The UFC puts on the only big European shows, so they are dominating there due to complete lack of competition (and I dont see DREAM trying to crack that market either).

Agreed, UFC has the biggest strong hold in Europe and that can be a huge market. I don't see any of these companies really biting into the UFC's biz for a good five years. That's what American fans know and it will take a while for them to know the contenders in any other org enough to pay for a fight or even tune into it. That being said the UFC hasn't treated it's fighters very well unless you happen to be Chuck or Hughes, and I would have included Randy in there but look at where he is with them.

There is a huge opening for these other orgs to chip away at the UFC talent pool but very little opportunity for them to really take away any business. UFC will have 95% of the best fighters for a long time. Tito is the only draw that is leaving the UFC. And by that I don't mean the only top fighter but one of the most consistent PPV sellers that the UFC or MMA has had. Tito will be a coupe for anyone that gets him. Him and Chuck are still the most recognizable faces of MMA, besides maybe Shamrock who's washed up and just a memory.

And while i am speaking of the most recognizable faces, what the fuck is up with Rampage? I know he's the coach of the next TUF. But what kind of bullshit is it when you have to wait almost a year for the champ to fight??? That is some bullshit!

[BigBanda]

Before Zuffa even purchased PRIDE and got a number of their fighters they were still doing very successful and killing it in the MMA market. It is not going to hurt them if they lose a few fighters because how well established they have become.

[Krazikarl]

Originally Posted by Ramma

If we are going to go on definitions.. you can't be losing money in a market and dominating a market at the same time. I'd say the UFC is IN the market with companies such as Cage Rage.. but I wouldn't call it dominating.

Nonsense. If you are the big boy on the block, you are dominant no matter what kind of money you are making:

Dominate:

1. to rule over; govern; control.
2. to tower above; overlook; overshadow: A tall pine dominated the landscape.
3. to predominate, permeate, or characterize.

The US economy is the dominant world economy, but its losing money any way you look at it (either the trade debts or the national deficit). But according to you the US isnt. Whatever.

Originally Posted by Ramma

If DREAM starts bringing in the $, fighters will go there. If UFC keeps bullying (if they are in fact doing so), fighters will go there.

Tha market for US fighters isnt huge in Japan for the same reason the market for Japanese fighters isnt that great here. Timmy just doesnt have much market value in Japan, so him and people like him cant realistically sign a competitive deal with DREAM because it wouldnt make business sense of DREAM to do so.

PRIDE was bigger, badder, had more recognition, and had the nice contracts, but it couldnt compete with the UFC long term. Why will the smaller, lesser known DREAM do much better?

[smoogy]

Originally Posted by Krazikarl

The UFC is dominating Europe by default. PRIDE never had any shows there, and neither has any other major organization in recent memory. The UFC puts on the only big European shows, so they are dominating there due to complete lack of competition (and I dont see DREAM trying to crack that market either).

lol. If by dominating you mean "losing money hand over fist", yeah, UFC is really dominating. K-1 did an Amsterdam show last spring with Yvel and Overeem in MMA feature bouts and sold out a 25,000 seat arena. And Cage Rage, while going with a slightly smaller venue than the UFC typically uses in the UK, actually does good, self-sustaining business there and has a strong following.

[Kimbo'sBeard]

Cro Cop - sucks he didn't make a big splash in the UFC, hopefully he'll regain his form and make a comeback.
Andre A. - Used to be great but waaaay too tentative after the loss to Timaaaay. I'm torn on this one, I hope he crushes Jake Obrien's brains in and is resigned.
Tito - Seems past his prime at this point. The fight with Rashad was a joke. Tito should sail into the sunset after Machida dismantles him.
Timmaaaay - Could care less. I think he's shown all he can show at this point...and after the loss to Minotauro I think we're going to see the tentative Timmaaaay again...ugh.