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[sandywh]

Originally Posted by Afro

Jakes beaten Sakurai, Okami, Pyle, Condit, Charuto, and Kikuchi..

I gets old repeating the resume. Not too many UFC WW can match Shields' resume, yet he's dogged all over this board.

I think Cesar was spot on.
Hughes stands no chance against Jake.
BJ has the tools to win, and is more talneted, but Jake can certainly hang w/ BJ wherever the fight goes.
GSP has never and will never fight a guy with the combination of Black Belt BJJ and wrestling that Shields' has. If/When the fight hits the ground, GSP will not be the stronger or better fighter wether on top or bottom.

and just from memory Leo Santos is the guy that subbed GSP in 2006, then Jake subbed Santos. Jake also defeated Diego Sanchez in the same tourney.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by sandywh

I gets old repeating the resume. Not too many UFC WW can match Shields' resume, yet he's dogged all over this board.

I think Cesar was spot on.
Hughes stands no chance against Jake.
BJ has the tools to win, and is more talneted, but Jake can certainly hang w/ BJ wherever the fight goes.
GSP has never and will never fight a guy with the combination of Black Belt BJJ and wrestling that Shields' has. If/When the fight hits the ground, GSP will not be the stronger or better fighter wether on top or bottom.

and just from memory Leo Santos is the guy that subbed GSP in 2006, then Jake subbed Santos. Jake also defeated Diego Sanchez in the same tourney.

agreed, i've heard shields' list of accomplishments so many f'ing times its etched into my brain, it seems to always come out in the same order as well. Jake gets shit on a ton here but I was just giving hughes his just desserts. ITs not like the guy is a fucking bum or is Josh Haynes like out there. Hes a former champ and is still extremely talented but is on the backside of a great career in MMA. Cesar Gracie is just being a Gracie and saying that all gracie fighters are superior, which i understand, but give hughes a bit more credit than that.

[Palma]

Originally Posted by Brutus

agreed, i've heard shields' list of accomplishments so many f'ing times its etched into my brain, it seems to always come out in the same order as well. Jake gets shit on a ton here but I was just giving hughes his just desserts. ITs not like the guy is a fucking bum or is Josh Haynes like out there. Hes a former champ and is still extremely talented but is on the backside of a great career in MMA. Cesar Gracie is just being a Gracie and saying that all gracie fighters are superior, which i understand, but give hughes a bit more credit than that.

I don't think he is being a typical Gracie or disrespectfull towards Hughes. Ceaser isn't really even a Gracie. He is adopted or something like that, but people just assume all the Gracies train with eachother.... Even Helio's kids don't all train together, and Ceaser is just a distant cousin. I don't think he really cares about being part of "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu".

And I think Shields would beat Hughes by the second round... Shields is a 28 year old version of Hughes with a much better BJJ game. If Hughes' strengths weren't what Shields is best suited at then I might give him a chance but Shields even has better standup then Hughes.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by Palma

I don't think he is being a typical Gracie or disrespectfull towards Hughes. Ceaser isn't really even a Gracie. He is adopted or something like that, but people just assume all the Gracies train with eachother.... Even Helio's kids don't all train together, and Ceaser is just a distant cousin. I don't think he really cares about being part of "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu".

And I think Shields would beat Hughes by the second round... Shields is a 28 year old version of Hughes with a much better BJJ game. If Hughes' strengths weren't what Shields is best suited at then I might give him a chance but Shields even has better standup then Hughes.

I see ur points on shields and i do agree that he'd win it just seemed like he wasnt giving matt even a remote chance. I would like to see the fight i just think it'll be entertaining at least.

[Steve88]

Originally Posted by ArMnHC

Cesar Gracie is living high on bias...and thats ok cuz Jake is his fighter and thats how he should be. but i feel he's not being very practical in his assumptions.

BJ would hand Shields his ass without question.

How long ago was that tournament when GSP was submitted and then Jake submitted him? and who was the fighter? obviously Jake has better JJ then GSP, but GSP is better everywhere else and would pound the crap out of Shields with nasty GnP. would be a challenging fight for GSP sure, but not one he'd lose.

and Hughes...i sure as hell dont like him, but i still say Shields best chance against Hughes is to catch him on the feet or in a submission. Hughes GnP is also better then Shields is and i think thats where the fight would be decided. this would be the closest fight between all three competitors.

until Jake Shields fights a top WW, im still not on the wagon like everyone else is. and you may all laugh, but he's gotta beat Fickett. im pulling for Drew and he should never be taken lightly. he's no push over.

Elite XC is doing nothing for a fighter like Shields...to the UFC with you Jake!

leo santos i believe was the guy that submitted gsp and got submitted by shields and it was a few years ago

[Dork8503]

Originally Posted by sandywh

I gets old repeating the resume. Not too many UFC WW can match Shields' resume, yet he's dogged all over this board.

I think Cesar was spot on.
Hughes stands no chance against Jake.
BJ has the tools to win, and is more talneted, but Jake can certainly hang w/ BJ wherever the fight goes.
GSP has never and will never fight a guy with the combination of Black Belt BJJ and wrestling that Shields' has. If/When the fight hits the ground, GSP will not be the stronger or better fighter wether on top or bottom.

and just from memory Leo Santos is the guy that subbed GSP in 2006, then Jake subbed Santos. Jake also defeated Diego Sanchez in the same tourney.

GSP has fought someone with better bjj and thats Penn.

Shields wrestling isn't going to matter because he can't take GSP down. Jakes tdd isn't good enough to stop GSP either.

GSP beat Penn and Penn is a better fighter with better skills then Jake. I still think Penn won but oh well lol.

I like Shields and think he is a amazing fighter but only thing he has on GSP is bjj. GSP could keep this fight standing if he wanted an just beat on Jake that way.

People really underestimate GSP on the ground. Yes Hughes did sub GSP but that was how long ago an GSP has come a long way since then.

Can Jake beat Shields, yes he can and it wouldn't be any kind of upset because Jake is a bad mofo.

But i would give the fight to GSP.

I also think Penn would hand Shields his ass. Penn has better stand up, better ground game and is pretty hard to take down. Even if it does go to the ground Penn has better bjj. Penn is just a superior fighter.

[atj-lucko]

How about Hughes versus Dennis Hallman again?
Hallman subbed him twice.

[sandywh]

Penn & Gsp may fare well against Jake Shields, but I don't see a lopsided victory be either guy.

I don't know if I can agree w/ saying Jake's Takedown D isn't very good. He's a ground fighter and gives up alot of takedowns, but passes or sweeps quickly and easily. He's an All-American wrestler, so I'm sure his TDD is up to par, but why stand if you can go to the ground, transition to top position or drop into a position to get a sub?

Jake's biggest weakness is his stand up, and noone is ever gonna compare him w/ the best strikers out there, but even his stand up has improved. And his is no longer a guy that doesn't threaten anyone on the feet.

Shields' skill set is such that he is a threat anytime he steps in the cage.

[earle]

Well Jake is younger, and a great wrestler with better Jiu-Jitsu than Hughes (and most people), so on paper it's a no-brainer, advantage Shields.

Interesting that Cesar thought GSP has 'quicker hands', quicker than B.J. or quicker than Jake? Overall GSP may be a tougher match for Jake, but if he thinks Georges has better hands than B.J., I think he's mistaken. B.J. would put a beating on Jake if he decided to stand and trade. On the ground, they would match up pretty good I think.

Still, like many people, I want to see what Jake can do against UFC competition. If he dominates Drew Fickett, that will confirm his spot as a top WW. If he struggles with Fickett but gets a win, then I would still rank him top 5 UFC, somewhere just above Koshcheck.

Sidenote: Didn't Hughes beat Sakurai too?

[notrightn0w]

Damn, even Caesar is on GSPs dick.