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[Clint]

Originally Posted by #1taz

But c'mon Clint...even if Dana and the Fertitas are only pocketing a million or so from each PPV, it sure beats what the hell even the top fighters are getting paid, since neither Dana nor the Fertitas have ever been in one single MMA match...ever.

Add that to the rest of the marketing/promotional dough Dana and the Fertitas are undoubtably reelin' in, and it really aint a bad paycheck for not ever fighting one single time.

But using that logic don't all of the guys that fought through the dark era owe the the Fertitta's a couple million each. Since it was their $50Million on the line.

Does it surprise me much that some of the top paid guys that have been with the UFC and Zuffa for a long time are leaving for one reason or another? No...not much.

Now that the UFC has gained significately in popularity, and is essentially without much in the way of any real serious competition, why wouldn't they let some of the old higher paid guys that aren't necessarily making them any great money any more go? And why not replace them with a bunch of new guys that will do the same job for a hell of a lot less $$?

But look at what you just said from the fighter's perspective. Even if the orgs that are not real competitors are offering a better initial contract, it's like leaving a job at a Boeing to go work for an Internet startup. The pay is good now but it has to be because the future of the company is speculative.

These guys all worked, trained, and fought their asses off for years to get to the top in the sport of MMA and to make a lot of money for the UFC/Zuffa at great risk to themselves in mind and body, while making a comparitively few decent bucks for themselves - but if they suddenly stop consistently winning and their drawing/marketing power starts to slowly slide away a bit - then why shouldn't Zuffa just kick them all to the curb?

Right?

After all - it's good for business.....

So if I am a good employee for a couple of years and then just start slacking off and not really doing anything for the company my boss should give me a raise right? I mean they owe it to me because I used to help them make money.

[Severn]

Honestly the only way I see this as a loss is because the division is so thin. However he hasn't set the world on fire for quite a while and ever since his KO loss to Tim, he hasn't been the same. Maybe it's for the best that he leaves. Maybe he needs to call Carl Weathers and get back the eye of the tiger. I don't know but I don't see this as a huge blow to the UFC.

Tito Ortiz leaving? That's a whole other story entirely.

[hunterkiller]

Originally Posted by Severn

Honestly the only way I see this as a loss is because the division is so thin. However he hasn't set the world on fire for quite a while and ever since his KO loss to Tim, he hasn't been the same. Maybe it's for the best that he leaves. Maybe he needs to call Carl Weathers and get back the eye of the tiger. I don't know but I don't see this as a huge blow to the UFC.

Tito Ortiz leaving? That's a whole other story entirely.

Losing one top knotch fighter every blue moon isn't going to bankrupt a company (unless it's Tito). JK

However, losing Couture, then Sylvia, Cro-Cop, Arlovski, Tito, not signing Fedor, all in the same year. No one can convince me it's good for the organization. It's not like Chucks fighting 4 times a year and is still walking through opponent after opponent.

[Clint]

Originally Posted by thecoylewis

The UFC brings in roughly 15-20 million dollars in revenue for each pay per view when you add live gate and pay per view sales. That's saying a PPV sells 300,000 buys and that's low balling it. Then you have all of the UFC sponosors, dvds, merchandise, etc, etc. And total fighter payments, less than a million for all fighters. Maybe a little over a million if a lot of big names are on the card.

Kimbo Slice is one of the highest paid fighters in MMA. Does that make any sense to anyone?

I just want to see fighters treated like professional athletes. You don't see this kind of stuff in other sports anymore since unions and collective bargaining agreements have come in to play. Fighters are treated like stiffs. Not all, but a majority.

But you are missing all of the expenses, which are the important part. Once you subtract ppv cuts for the cable company (about 50%), Advertising (Couple Million), Business overhead (Potentially a couple million), Venue Fees, Insurance, Athletic Commision Fees, Fighter PPV cuts, Undisclosed Bonuses, etc)

[integer]

I don't see AA leaving either, but let's face it, he wasn't overly entertaining in his last couple of fights and that's what the UFC is all about. Clearly winning isn't enough to keep you on their diminishing hw roster.

[hunterkiller]

Originally Posted by Clint

But you are missing all of the expenses, which are the important part. Once you subtract ppv cuts for the cable company (about 50%), Advertising (Couple Million), Business overhead (Potentially a couple million), Venue Fees, Insurance, Athletic Commision Fees, Fighter PPV cuts, Undisclosed Bonuses, etc)

I'm aware of all that. But the UFC is still raking in profits. All I hear is how Dana wants MMA to be considered a major player in pro sports but yet they aren't paying all of the guys like pro athletes. The NFL players revenue stream is allocated between the NFL, teams and players. The players portion of revenue is 70-80 percent of profit after expenses as it pertains to television and stadium revenue. I'm not saying that the UFC should allocate that large a chunk but something more than what they get now for the lower paid guys would be nice. And they have to do something about the large amount of top fighters leaving. You also have to keep an eye on the GSP situation where it's been rumored by more than one person that he was very unhappy with management, and then Anderson Silva wants that boxing fight. His contract is almost up, champ or not. He could very easily resign that belt and walk away to get his boxing match done when his last fight is up. Could you imagine how splintered the UFC would be if in addition to the guys they lost already, they lost the top WW and MW in the world in addition to 4 of the top 6 heavyweights. It's a very real possibility that people need to look at. Rumors are just rumors alot of the time, but where there's smoke, there's fire too.

[Severn]

Originally Posted by thecoylewis

Losing one top knotch fighter every blue moon isn't going to bankrupt a company (unless it's Tito). JK

However, losing Couture, then Sylvia, Cro-Cop, Arlovski, Tito, not signing Fedor, all in the same year. No one can convince me it's good for the organization. It's not like Chucks fighting 4 times a year and is still walking through opponent after opponent.

I don't really blame Dana for not having Sylvia and Crocop anymore. Crocop as much as I love him, shit the bed (thank you Baroni) in his UFC stint. CC wanted out to find himself or whatever. Fine. Tim leaving was a mutual thing and quite frankly I'd tired of seeing him in title matches. He's become one of those "in case of emergency give title shot" fighters.

Him not signing Fedor? Sure I give you that. Let Fedor do his Sambo thing and pay him his loot (although I wouldn't have done the whole co-promotion thing. That's a bit too much). Dana's mouth didn't help things either as it kept putting a strain on negotiations. I'm sure an understanding could have been reached if certain things were done. Failing to sign Fedor led to Randy leaving but honestly Randy was already under contract and should have just fought the remaining fights and there wouldn't be any issues.

Losing Tito is bad and that's just a bullheaded mistake by Dana. There's obviously so much bad blood there that it could have easily been resolved if some pride and ego were left out of it (from both guys but I'm sure each one follows the others lead in that department).

[hunterkiller]

Yeah Cro Cop lost to guys who he should have beat. I hope he gets his confidence back and he comes back with a vengeance. Sylvia, I don't get what people don't like about him. I like Sylvia alot and I thought he did really well against Nog minus that choke.

If the best fighter in the world is available, you do what you have to do to get him signed. I said it yesterday. If Tom Brady walks into the Patriots office and says I want a raise, the Patriots say, "how much Mr. Brady and can I do anything else for you.

I think there is much more to the Couture situation than we know about. Bad blood didn't help when the UFC tried to tell everyone Couture retired when he resigned. I think both parties involved could have done more to resolve that. I think if the UFC said, "look take the Nogueira fight and we will either make the Fedor fight happen or you will be a free agent", then Couture would have said yes. But they came out and said he retired, then got him banned from letting them use his gym name at IFL and meddled in Affliction calling them names, trashing his sponsor, just crap stuff. Not saying Randy was innocent, it's just not stuff you usually see from the President of a company.

I'm a Tito fan first and foremost. And I don't think him leaving the UFC is bad for him. He won't fight Rampage because of their relationship and he won't beat Chuck as long as the atomic eye poke is legal, so what else can he do. Let EliteXC or someone else throw him some money and he can help them do some things. Whether people like Tito or not, he's a good teacher and can mentor fighters who can become some top notch guys. I think he could become a huge asset to an upstart company, EGO and all.

[Krazikarl]

Like Clint said, we dont know if AA is fighting Rothwell so people shouldnt claim that we do. AA's manager didnt know who he was fighting next a few days ago and there hasnt been anything more recent than that. The best bet is Rothwell, but thats not for sure.

Personally I'm a little suspicious about this whole Affliction deal. They have announced some HUGE name fighters that aint cheap. How they hell are they pulling this off when they dont even have a TV deal in place (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/50397)? And even if they did get on HDNet...thats a service that most people dont even get. How are they possibly going to come close to breaking even off of this (I know that people have said "THEY WILL SELL SHIRTS", but you need to sell a hell of a lot of shirts to pay for Fedor and AA)? Something just doesnt sit well with me on this so I'm not believing anything until I see the actual press conference.

Originally Posted by #1taz

But c'mon Clint...even if Dana and the Fertitas are only pocketing a million or so from each PPV, it sure beats what the hell even the top fighters are getting paid, since neither Dana nor the Fertitas have ever been in one single MMA match...ever.

Add that to the rest of the marketing/promotional dough Dana and the Fertitas are undoubtably reelin' in, and it really aint a bad paycheck for not ever fighting one single time.

How many tens of millions of dollars did fighters spend to get the UFC jumpstarted? How many tens of millions of dollars did they put up on a company that everybody thought was dying.

Dana and the F Brothers risked a hell of a lot of money on the sport and it worked out. Fighters risked nothing. Surely the people who risked something actually deserve some reward when things do work out.

Plus, I think that people GROSSLY overstate how much the UFC actually makes in terms of net profit. I doubt the F Brothers are even in the business for the money (I'm sure the profit margins are much much better in the casino business).

I mean, we know that the UFC LOST money on some of their recent UK shows (which were sellouts), so if they are losing money on cards like that, you can be sure that they arent exactly pulling in tons of money on the other cards. Sure they gross a lot of money, but they spend so much in overhead and what not that they they probably arent making that much. After all, they are still taking out loans, which is probably not a sign that they are rolling in the dough.

[hunterkiller]

Originally Posted by Krazikarl

Fighters risked nothing.

Only their bodies and lives. It's the same in all sports. You have the owners who foot the bill to get things going and you have the athtletes to make it happen. You just have to pay them.

Alot of people aren't giving Warchief's press release any credibility so I did some digging as well. MMAHQ posted a story saying they have confirmed the fight with Ben Rothwell himself. I'm sure the guy wouldn't say he's fighting Arlovski if Arlovski wasn't signed. I'm sure he knows who he's fighting.