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[iverbure]

Originally Posted by sandywh

I'm guessing you never wrestled.

Weight cutting is not easy. Its even considered a discipline. Just like BJJ, or wrestling. You have to train your body to handle the cuts.

And you're talking like its easy to just go from fighting at 205 to fighting at 185 (or any other drop). Mike Swick had to take nearly a year off in order to get his body in a position to be able to handle the cut.

I could pick apart you're quote for hours, but I'll stick to the short version.

Why fighters are allowed to drop classes without being kicked out of UFC....
- They have contracts
- They are good fighters that have had bad luck
- UFC may have placed them at weights they didn't want to be at anyway (see TUF fighters that drop ASAP)
- Fans still want to see them fight

yes you are right i have never wrestled in highschool, we didn't have a team.

I know weight cutting from weight class to weight class isn't easy. Alls i am saying is if you are a fighting wanting to fight in the UFC, you should be training your body to make a cut because if you don't, your already going to be behind the field imo in the ufc. I understand if the ufc wants them to fight at that certain weight but many the times they are told they are a weight class below however decided to say higher (Bisping)

I should have added that obvisouly the guys from TUF are totally different from the guys who are just signed to fight right away. The TUF guys are expected to compete at the weight class they were on the show unless they have said before the show starts that they intend to drop (Danzig)

[iverbure]

Originally Posted by rivethead

???

I wouldn't say Hughes is even close to GSP's size.



I'm assuming when you say Tim is the most skilled big man that you're adding his TDD...because his striking can't hold a candle to Schilt's. Not even close.

I don't see Fedor getting controlled by Randy's striking either. Randy's best chance would be the clinch.



Do you think fighters owe you anything? It could be that a fighter is developing and learning new things from a new camp. Just because you--a person who admit you've never cut weight or fought--think it makes someone "look less impressive imo in a weird way..." do you think a fighter who is sacrificing and striving to be successful gives two shits about the opinion of a casual fan who admittedly doesn't have a clue what they are doing?
rh

imo Timmys overall skill is better than Schilts, it'd be hard press to say Schilts 3 time kick boxing skills aren;t as good as Timmys and i don't intend to. Timmys a more complete fighter imo.

I wasn't saying Fedor would be controlled by Randys striking i was saying or trying to say his overall game was very good and a tough matchup for Fedor.

As far as the second quote you made from my comments, i should have titles this thread, What it takes to become successful in the ufc, aside from training hard.

IMO to become truly successful and not just a one hit wonder or have a .500 average, you need to come to the ufc with you body ready to cut as much weight as possible, so your body can match up with the other bigger fighters.

Can you succeed and win some fights being a smaller guy, of course but histroy suggests that you more than likely to fail. Lyoto Machida isn't the biggest guy however he has had little trouble thus far, there are other examples.

I don't think any fight owes me anything, that was just my poorly stated opionion.

As far as fighters who are developing new things, this is excatly why i think the ufc should be using the WEC or somewhere else as a development league so only fighters who are ready for the big time will be competing in the ufc.

What i meant by looks less impressive is say someone was fighting at LHW and gets beat and not only beat but gets dominated by less than top 10 LHW guys, he than drops to MW and wins 3 or 4 fights and than wins the title. Some fans who only watch it once in awhile will say what the hell i just watched him a few months ago, get knocked out 2 times and now he is MW champ. This is a extreme case .

I'm not a casusal fan, i just have never cut weight because i have no wrestled or have compete at a high level in any sport which requires myslef to cut weight. I do realize why you said it and thus why i said my opinion was poorly stated.

[sandywh]

Originally Posted by iverbure

yes you are right i have never wrestled in highschool, we didn't have a team.

I know weight cutting from weight class to weight class isn't easy. Alls i am saying is if you are a fighting wanting to fight in the UFC, you should be training your body to make a cut because if you don't, your already going to be behind the field imo in the ufc. I understand if the ufc wants them to fight at that certain weight but many the times they are told they are a weight class below however decided to say higher (Bisping)

I should have added that obvisouly the guys from TUF are totally different from the guys who are just signed to fight right away. The TUF guys are expected to compete at the weight class they were on the show unless they have said before the show starts that they intend to drop (Danzig)

And you don't beleive that the UFC signs guys at a weight class with certain match ups in mind? Wand / Chuck ring a bell?

Guys should certainly be allowed to come and go at whatever weight they want. Why should the organization put a potential cap on fighters abilities by no allowing him to fight a his original weight class. Perfect example is BJ / Sherk. In your scenarion the fight this weekend we be taking place at WW, and wouldn't even be for a #1 contender slot. Notr would we have gotten to see Hendo / Silva, or Couture / Sylvia.

Have I made my point?

[iverbure]

Originally Posted by sandywh

And you don't beleive that the UFC signs guys at a weight class with certain match ups in mind? Wand / Chuck ring a bell?

Guys should certainly be allowed to come and go at whatever weight they want. Why should the organization put a potential cap on fighters abilities by no allowing him to fight a his original weight class. Perfect example is BJ / Sherk. In your scenarion the fight this weekend we be taking place at WW, and wouldn't even be for a #1 contender slot. Notr would we have gotten to see Hendo / Silva, or Couture / Sylvia.

Have I made my point?

The guys with the established names aren't really the guys i am talking about either. Wand is a exception because Wand vs Chuck was a no brainer. Wand had competed in Pride as a LHW and was clearly the best in his division in pride, and he is already talking about dropping to 185 after the Jardine fight.

Sherk came to the ufc when there was no 155, so of course there is goign to be guys that want to be in the ufc, there are guys that should be fighting at 145 however, because the ufc doesn't have it they still want to fight for the biggest promotion. I can see why those guys still want to fight when there normal weight classes doesn't exsisited in the ufc. thats nixes the BJ / Sherk part.

Hendo is a natural MW, but was the champion in two weight classes, so again he is a exception from what i am talking about.

The guys that are at the end of their careers, or have accomplished everything they can in a division, thats when they should be moving up. In a year or two if Anderson is still champ, than of course he should be moving up for tougher fights and more competion.

I'm talking about the guys who are new and trying to become stars, i am not talking about established names. Guys from Pride or over seas from now on should look at what has happened to some of the great fighters who tried to overcome the size difference and out skill the ufc stars.

The japanese fighters imo are the guys who are going to continue to fail in the ufc, because MOST not all, refruse to cut weight. let me also say that most of the japanesse great fighters are my favourite fighters to watch just like most of the old pride guys, but usually they are beat by the bigger american guys.